Re:Alan Turing and Harvey Milk - gay icons.
« Reply #30 on: 2010-07-27 22:50:42 »
Quote:
<snip> Mermaid to Bluderov: i have been in cov longer than you have..i have probably interacted with more of them than you have...regardless. i could say that it is none of your business. also, why do you care? or..why not? or..or.<snip>
I just couldn't help noticing this childish one-up-manship Mermaid displays here
. . . . or . .or . perhaps the fact that you've interacted with more of us is why you have such a relatively low Meridion rating compared with Blunderov - your familiarity breeds our contempt . . . or . . . or . . . perhaps in speaking his mind he's much more thoughtful and appreciated than your sharing the immature drama of your own pointless life . . . or . . or . and so on. I think our Meridion votes demonstrate as objectively as anything that we want more of Blunderov and less of Mermaid - not that this will slow down an ad hominem attention whore like yourself, of course.
Re:Alan Turing and Harvey Milk - gay icons.
« Reply #31 on: 2010-08-13 16:10:28 »
Returning to the subject again:
A gay icon tribute to Alan Turing? Is this what frightens Hermit? I think this is an appropriate treatment here of Saint Alan Turing (PBUH) in a non gay-icon tribute but deals with issues of homosexuality surrounding Alan Turing's prosecution and suicide.
ZJ does a much better job of it than I do. So I'll just let him do the talking on this one. -Mo
PS I'm considering posting some of his text of this into our wiki. Possibly another Meridion/Doctrine vote in a few weeks. Stay tuned. -Mo
ZJ: Alan Turing was one of the most brilliant minds of the twentieth century. His research in a wide variety of fields, and his uncanny ability to make new connections between them, led him to develop revolutionary concepts that have changed the face of our world.
Born in London in 1912, Turing showed an early affinity for science, mathematics and foreign languages, and an irrepressible fondness for scientific inquiry. At university, he began studying the nature of computation, and ultimately created his "universal machine"—an extremely simple conceptual device that was nevertheless capable of running any computer program that could be written. Turing machines would eventually become one of the most useful models for the exploration of computer science.
As World War II escalated, Turing worked for the British government as part of the effort to break the codes of Nazi Germany and read their encrypted messages. He designed an electromechanical device that would logically deduce the settings of Germany's Enigma machines, allowing analysts to reverse the code and uncover their battle plans. Hundreds of these devices were constructed, and the intel they acquired shifted the course of the war towards victory for the Allies.
After the war, Turing continued his work on constructing computers, and was drawn to the field of artificial intelligence. He posed the question of whether a machine could have a mind, and believed it was theoretically possible for computers to think in the same ways that humans do. He developed a test for an AI that relied on whether it could fool an observer in conversation into thinking it was another person. A simplified version of the Turing test is now in common use online as a way of distinguishing humans from automated systems. In his later years, Turing became interested in the mathematics underlying the formation of biological structures, and published a paper on reaction-diffusion systems as a model for morphogenesis.
To this day, Turing is remembered as the founder of computer science, a man whose work was pivotal in the defeat of Nazi Germany, and whose exploration of artificial intelligence has had wide-ranging philosophical implications. A thinker, a dreamer, a constant visionary, Turing is rightfully celebrated as one of the greatest scientists in history.
What many people may not know is that Alan Turing was also a gay man. In 1952, Turing was arrested on charges of "gross indency" for his relationship with another man. Turing refused to deny it, and insisted that he had done nothing wrong. He was stripped of his security clearance and could no longer work with British intelligence services. He was forced to have injections of female hormones as a crude form of chemical castration, with the side effect of inducing breast growth.
In 1954, Alan Turing committed suicide at the age of 41, biting into an apple poisoned with cyanide. Whatever he may have gone on to achieve, the world will never know. It was lost with Alan Turing, a casualty of a society that thought it was okay to treat gay people as deviants, as criminals, as less than equal.
Horribly, it still goes on today. Around the world, gays and lesbians are still subjected to unearned hatred and targeted by unfair laws. Gay teenagers are up to four times more likely to attempt suicide, and 20-40% of homeless youth are gay. And every inequality that we impose upon them, every injustice ignored, every slur, every hate campaign, every gay-bashing, represents our failure to appreciate their worth as human beings and the wonderful potential that lies within all of us.
How many more Alan Turings have been lost, their hopes and dreams dashed upon the rocks of hatred? How many more lives will be carelessly thrown away, sacrificed in the name of satiating our prejudice?
And for what? For all the persecution, exclusion, and criminalization, what do we have to show for it? Nothing. It's not worth it. The cost of homophobia, measured in human lives, is simply too great for our world to bear.
Remember Alan Turing, a hero betrayed by the country he helped defend, driven to suicide by people who hated him for who he loved. Remember all that we've lost to intolerance. And let us remember to respect the humanity that Alan was so shamefully deprived of, and the dignity that he was denied.
Re:Alan Turing and Harvey Milk - gay icons.
« Reply #32 on: 2010-08-14 09:46:47 »
Still holding a dialogue with yourself Mo? While you continue to project blatantly inequitable charges of homophobia at others and are not appropriately rated for this, the CoV makes the statement that it is too toxic a memetic wasteland to be worth bothering with about itself.
For anyone who cares, the reason why neither hermit is active in the CoV is trivially visible by opening hermit's public profile and reading the posts related to the illumination of Alan Turing by the Church of Virus in the last 48 posts or so.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
Re:Alan Turing and Harvey Milk - gay icons.
« Reply #33 on: 2010-08-14 10:56:34 »
Now this sounds like a typical "Church" argument... as I have only read this thread I will not comment further until I have had sufficient time to read the pov from all sides, then smoke a bowl and create an informed opinion... But to someone on the fringe of the CoV who daily drawls upon its' virtues as the centerpiece in an ever expanding quest towards personal sapience, I can only say that I feel a little saddened by the very theocrat-like manor and temperament of the argument... :'( Personally whether they are gay or not has nothing to do with a persons capacity for illumination. Mr. Turning is deserving of his appointment but to see such hatred thrown, I cannot help to feel that it is a shame for it to be attached to such a great man...
Still holding a dialogue with yourself Mo? While you continue to project blatantly inequitable charges of homophobia . . .
No, Hermit, That was your FIRST argument against Turing for being a "gay icon", which I think you've wisely abandoned - so no I don't think you are a homophobe or you would be still advocating that. I'm assuming your objection to Alan Turing now is just one long ad hominem argument against me. Its the only other choice you offer, and though still illogical, unreasonable and petty I suppose it sounds less preposterous than the first reasons you gave for opposing Alan Turing. Of course you could just stop with the ad hominem and address the actual subject of Alan Turing and instantly evaporate all confusion. If Alan Turing is your saint, then its resolved. If he's not a Saint for you, then say why and be done with it. Continue to whine about me and nothing gets resolved. The rest of us have been consistent from the beginning. To publicly act wounded about confusion you yourself generated through your own changing positions, and then to refuse to clarify in preference to ad hominem is simply a drama play.
Your wearing these grievances like a badge of honor and denigrating everyone else who doesn't share that assessment are very reminiscent of Joe Dees. Do you really want to be THAT guy? It been over 6 months now and everyone who was involved and might have cared have already made up their mind. Plus if you really continue to think that I'm a "1" in Meridion then your even addressing me anymore is actually an act of hypocrisy. Both you and Mermaid do this. If I'm so bad according to both of you, then why am I all you two ever seem to talk about or even address? If you want to get taken seriously, and you really think I am to be ignored then stop being hypocritical about it.
Re:Alan Turing and Harvey Milk - gay icons.
« Reply #35 on: 2010-08-14 17:19:18 »
Returning to the actual subject, I've already presented ZJ's rememberance of Alan Turing above which I fully endorse. It puts forth ample reason for his Sainthood based on his many accomplishments and also deals with the issues of his death in what I think are a responsible way. I think the wiki that Lucifer wrote sufficiently and unambiguously states the reasons for which we chose Alan Turing as CoV saint, however I think ZJ's piece is a very good example of CoV compatible commentary which I think many of us can endorse as dealing with the unavoidable issues surrounding his prosecution and suicide. If you think its an offensive presentation, I'd like to hear what you think of a more appropriate way to deal with it.
If Hermit and Mermaid want to simply re-cycle their personal grievances against me, please skip it -- its getting to be very old news now, and I'm sure there are other BBS threads where you can be more constructive than this. Hermit complained some time ago that I refused to discuss this topic. Not that there is anything wrong with that in my estimation - I see no ethical duty to engage in unproductive conversations, but in the interest of Hermit and Mermaid not further disrupting other people's unrelated threads this way http://www.churchofvirus.org/bbs/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=43289;start=0 they can have that conversation with me here on this thread. But if you only want to attack me as you both have already demonstrated so far . . . well, that kind of behavior speaks for itself in the Church of Virus, and your insistence that the Church reward you for that that kind of behavior in the Meridion system is beyond absurd. You already made your community call to smite Mo back in February. I can't see how another round of ad hominems will change anybody's mind now.
ps. a trick of Hermit's is he tends to talk about himself in the plural sense as in "others". As if he wishes to give the impression you are talking to a village, or that he stands for the community or something like that. Hermit: ". . . charges of homophobia at others . . . " Just to clarify, when Hermit is talking about "others" here, he's talking about himself and Mermaid only. When he's talking about " too toxic a memetic wasteland to be worth bothering with about itself." that of course would be everyone else here but Hermit and Mermaid. So myself, Lucifer, Walter, Blunderov, Letheomaniac, the.bricoleur, Sat, Fritz, Dj_Dandroid, . . . being all the top equity holders, Hermit is talking to you - calling you worthless for not shunning me. Not brave enough to use proper names in his venom, the key to understanding Hermit ad hominem is clearing up the vagueness of his pronouns and referents.
Re:Alan Turing and Harvey Milk - gay icons.
« Reply #36 on: 2010-08-15 08:28:57 »
Tas6,
You are welcome to enjoy the drama, but there is no hatred here. Annoyances, bruised feelings, egos etc.? yes. Hatred? no.
As for Saint Alan Turing, gay iconhood was not among the criteria for his being selected a saint. This man invented the concept of the computer, gave birth to the study of artificial intelligence, the next level of human evolution, and defeated the Nazis, among many other achievements. He was fucking brilliant! A radiant guide if ever there was one.
Now this sounds like a typical "Church" argument... as I have only read this thread I will not comment further until I have had sufficient time to read the pov from all sides, then smoke a bowl and create an informed opinion... But to someone on the fringe of the CoV who daily drawls upon its' virtues as the centerpiece in an ever expanding quest towards personal sapience, I can only say that I feel a little saddened by the very theocrat-like manor and temperament of the argument... :'( Personally whether they are gay or not has nothing to do with a persons capacity for illumination. Mr. Turning is deserving of his appointment but to see such hatred thrown, I cannot help to feel that it is a shame for it to be attached to such a great man...
MoEnzyme highlighted that, at least in the U.S.A., many of those who know of Turing, perceive him as a "gay icon," and as such, despite MoEnzyme's spluttering, inarticulate, post hoc putative denials, the C.o.V. does indeed now have a "gay icon" as a "saint,"
I would just clarify the Church of Virus doctrine does not include an official gay icon. We've never voted on such a thing, and therefore that is not part of the Church Doctrine. We do have a Saint Alan Turing who was illuminated as a saint in the Church of Virus on March 21st, 2010. This is the doctrine which appears on the Church of Virus Website
Alan Turing was an English mathematician, logician, cryptanalyst, and computer scientist. He was influential in the development of computer, playing a significant role in the creation of the modern computer. During World War II, Turing was an instrumental member of the team from the Department of Communications in Great Britain that deciphered German codes generated by the Enigma machine. For his monumental achievements and vast influence, the Church of Virus voted for Turing's illumination as a VirianSaint on March 21, 2010.
Alan Mathison Turing, OBE, FRS (23 June 1912 – 7 June 1954), was an English mathematician, logician, cryptanalyst, and computer scientist. He was influential in the development of computer science and providing a formalisation of the concept of the algorithm and computation with the Turing machine, playing a significant role in the creation of the modern computer. (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing)
For his monumental achievements and vast influence the Church of Virus voted for Turing's illumination as a VirianSaint on March 21, 2010. Meridion vote.
Often considered the founder of computer science, Alan Turing's work in mathematics led him to envision the first digital computer. The Turing Machine would read a series of ones and zeroes, interpreting them to perform an ordered and repeatable sequence of steps. His machine introduced the concept of the multi-purpose computer. His concepts introduced the algorithm as a means of solving any problem by way of a sequence of well-conceived steps.
Turing's interest in biological processes and his belief that a machine could be created to mimic the process of the human brain ushered in the era of artificial intelligence. He conceived of the Turing Test, a method of proving or disproving the presence of intelligence in a machine. If an objective observer, by way of questions posed from a keyboard, could not reliably identify a machine from a person, the machine would have passed the Turing Test. Successful achievement of the test remains a primary goal of today's artificial intelligence researchers.
During World War II, Turing was an instrumental member of the team from the Department of Communications in Great Britain that deciphered German codes generated by the Enigma machine.
In recognition of his monumental achievements in the advancement and realization of computers and computer science, significant contributors to the field are recognized by the A.M. Turing Award. Bestowed by the Association for Computing Machinery and sponsored by Intel, the award recognizes major contributions of lasting significance to the computer field. Its list of recipients constitutes a veritable Who's Who of computer science.
Turing was awarded an undergraduate degree in mathematics from King's College, Cambridge, in 1934. He received a Ph.D. from Princeton in logic, algebra, and number theory in 1938. He was a fellow of King's College and of the Royal Society, and a recipient of the Order of the British Empire (OBE). (from http://www.sis.pitt.edu/~mbsclass/hall_of_fame/turing.html)
Turing never described himself as a philosopher, but his 1950 paper “Computing Machinery and Intelligence” is one of the most frequently cited in modern philosophical literature. It gave a fresh approach to the traditional mind-body problem, by relating it to the mathematical concept of computability he himself had introduced in his 1936-7 paper “On computable numbers, with an application to the Entscheidungsproblem.” His work can be regarded as the foundation of computer science and of the artificial intelligence program. (from http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/turing/)
Nowhere in that wiki do the words "gay icon" occur. That was never included in the vote. So to say that the Church of Virus has a gay icon is simply false. The fact that Alan Turing may be a gay icon to many people in the US, while relevant to this particular thread has not been officially incorporated into Church of Virus Doctrine. If Hermit would like to propose such a Meridion doctrine vote to make Alan Turing officially a Church of Virus gay icon, that is his business. No such vote has ever occurred. Hermit's mere assertion that the Church of Virus doctrine includes a gay icon does not make it true.
3/13/2011 - ps. I've created a thread in the "Free For All" section to address any further possible issues regarding Hermit's and Mermaid's complaints and/or opposition to the 2010 illumination of Alan Turing as the third Church of Virus saint instead of cluttering up threads in the Doctrine section. The doctrine is settled, so any more post mortems belong in the free for all thread http://www.churchofvirus.org/bbs/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=43681;start=0;boardseen=1
Re:Alan Turing and Harvey Milk - gay icons.
« Reply #38 on: 2011-03-10 22:59:04 »
. . . and one more thing . . .
If the Church of Virus were to decide to have an official "gay icon", I would choose Harvey Milk as such. For what it's worth, when he was alive Harvey Milk would have likely felt proud for others to consider him a gay icon. I wouldn't consider Harvey Milk as a Saint for our church; while I think his political action positively moved many people there is no way his accomplishments add up to anything I would consider for Church of Virus Sainthood.
Alan Turing on the other hand never promoted himself as a gay icon, nor would he have willingly sought such a status on his own. While some in the Church of Virus have implied that to consider him a gay icon somehow shames his memory, I don't personally think he would have minded one way or another were he still alive today. Really he spent most of his life either saving humanity from itself or radically advancing our technology, philosophy and sciences, and therefore I feel that's the best way to remember Alan Turing.
So, no. The Church of Virus does not have a gay icon. I also wouldn't sponsor any vote for a Church of Virus gay icon myself as I don't feel any such necessity. However if anyone else in the church felt such a need and wished to promote such an aspect to our doctrine, I would feel most comfortable lending my support to Harvey Milk. Not as a saint, of course, but if any felt the need for a simple gay icon in their church doctrine, I can think of no reasonable objections I would have to Harvey Milk.
Re:Alan Turing and Harvey Milk - gay icons.
« Reply #39 on: 2012-07-10 02:03:01 »
In this dialogue which Hermit has imagined that I'm just having with myself other significant public and political figures keep entering. Biden, then Obama and now Barney Frank. To this I simply say, "beautiful"! More opportunities to celebrate, always Congratulations Barney Frank and Jim Ready!!
"In October 2005, Mr. Ready — a carpenter and welder who specializes in awnings and runs a small shop, Jim of Most Trades, in Ogunquit, Me. — had been dragged to a local fund-raiser by his longtime partner, Robert Palmer, who knew Mr. Frank from his days as an adviser to Michael S. Dukakis when he was governor of Massachusetts.
At the time, Mr. Ready was acting as a full-time caretaker: Mr. Palmer had been struggling with serious illness, and both men knew that he was dying.
The meeting that night was not entirely coincidental. Mr. Palmer “wanted someone to be there for me,” Mr. Ready said. “He was looking for somebody to look out for me when he was gone.” After meeting Mr. Frank, he recalled his partner saying, “He could take care of you.”
The congressman, for his part, was deeply affected by Mr. Ready’s devotion.
“I had never really seen that up close between two guys before,” Mr. Frank said. “I was envious in some ways of what Bob and he had.” He remembered thinking, “I could have the same wonderful relationship with this great man.”
The two struck up a friendship, but Mr. Ready felt guilty spending more than a few hours away from his partner. Mr. Palmer died in January 2007.
“I called, and he was distraught,” Mr. Frank said. He flew to Maine to console Mr. Ready.
Their dinners turned into dates. “I was really just drawn to him,” Mr. Ready said. “It was platonic, but I didn’t want it to be.”
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Congratulations Barney Frank and Jim Ready!!
