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Topic: Jerusalem Post promotes genocide? (Read 3806 times) |
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Nurgle
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Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« on: 2004-05-14 21:41:31 » |
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Quote from the Jerusalem Post:
Perhaps it's time to stop valuing the lives of Palestinian civilians and start using heavy-handed tactics, even if that leads to civilian causalities, to act like the terrorists who blow up innocent women and children instead of going out of our way to prevent civilian causalities at any cost.
(Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3707097.stm)
If this is the opinion of a typical Israeli, isn't it time for the UN to step in a deliver a major ass-kicking?
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Casey
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Revere the skeptic.
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Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #2 on: 2004-05-16 18:26:39 » |
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[Joe]
That has been the opinion of the average Palestinian for some time now, and I haven't heard many ass-kicking calls issued in respect to them.
[Casey]
Two wrongs don't make a right, or at least that's what I was taught to believe from an early age. Are you saying that calls for an "ass kicking" will eventually turn the tide of Palestinian and Israeli aggressions? I don't think so. You'll only inflame the millions of people who are disenfranchised with the entire Palestinian debacle.
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Casey
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Revere the skeptic.
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Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #4 on: 2004-05-16 23:05:57 » |
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[Joe]
They're already in the thrall of a perpetual antisemitic inflammation.
[Casey]
Who are "they"? And, I'm assuming when you say antisemite you're taking into account both Jews and Palestinians. They are after all both Semitic people, and both have suffered deaths and injuries among their respective populations.
[Joe]
I do not support a position of not caring about collateral damage, and neither does Israel - they target terror kingpins and murderous militants as precisely as they can...
[Casey]
Targeted assassinations widely condemned by the United Nations, the EU, and a slew of other countries and governmental bodies.
[Joe]
while taking pains and losing lives to avoid killing civilian non-combatants, even while the terrorists exploit this concern (which they view as a weakness) by attempting to surround themselves with human shields at all times...
[Casey]
How can you describe them as human shields? Those people are next door neighbors. People who don't know what there neighbor is doing. I'm tired of the security jargon. Palestine is one of the most densely populated areas on this planet. There's no possible way that you, I, or Ahmed to know exactly what all of his neighbors are doing. That's because Palestine is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet. So, when Ahmed and his son are killed in an attack on a Muslim militant, his neighbors become enraged with fury because it's been perpetuated by the Israeli military. So, the cycle is repeated.
[Joe[
...including when they're attacking Israeli civilians. It is the Palestinian terror groups for whom all Jews are not collateral damage, but the primary target, women and children included, and this has been the case for some time now.
[Casey]
Have you ever thought that the Palestinians are pissed off because they've lost land that was rightfully theirs? Do you feel Sharon's continued support for the settlements on the West Bank as troubling? And what of a security fence installed that curtails freedom of movement?
All of these are things I find troubling. I don't think that any of these measures are working. Terrorists adopt new techniques, refine old techniques, and pursue new methodologies to attain their goals. Israel is fermenting hatred in the Palestinians with every misguided action they perform. They're all troubling and Israel, and to a lesser degree, the Palestinians need to sit down and work out an agreement and not pursue an end to this situation unilaterally, as Sharon and his party have.
Regards,
Casey
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Blunderov
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"We think in generalities, we live in details"
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RE: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #5 on: 2004-05-17 01:52:55 » |
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[Blunderov] They care about collateral damage? Three Palestinians were
crushed to death in their own houses when the Israelis bulldozed their homes
the other day.
Best Regards
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Joe Dees
Sent: 17 May 2004 03:25 AM
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
They're already in the thrall of a perpetual antisemitic inflammation. I do
not support a position of not caring about collateral damage, and neither
does Israel - they target terror kingpins and murderous militants as
precisely as they can, while taking pains and losing lives to avoid killing
civilian non-combatants, even while the terrorists exploit this concern
(which they view as a weakness) by attempting to surround themselves with
human shields at all times, including when they're attacking Israeli
civilians. It is the Palestinian terror groups for whom all Jews are not
collateral damage, but the primary target, women and children included, and
this has been the case for some time now.
----
This message was posted by Joe Dees to the Virus 2004 board on Church of
Virus BBS.
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=303
03>
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JD
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RE: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #6 on: 2004-05-17 06:16:04 » |
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But Casey old buddy, no conflict, or war or set of behaviours is meaningful
out of context.
The original poster was attempting to score points against Israelis by
presenting the opinion of an Israeli. Joe added the necessary balance by
pointing out the very relevant fact that whilst this is a minority opinion
in Israel, it is widely accepted opinion amongst Palestinians (hence their
support for suicide bombing and the murder of civilians like the recent
killing of a mother and her four children).
The commentator asks an important question: Why should Israel show restraint
against an enemy that shows none, scorns the conventions of war and is
waging a war of annihilation?
Can you answer that question? Can you give the Israelis reasons why they
should operate under this handicap when the enemy does not deserve it and
their restraint is not recognised. If they let fly with all their might and
operated with the same values and guiding principles as their enemy, the
Palestinians would now be dead and half the Arab world radioactive rubble.
The Palestinians and Israel's Arab neighbours ought to be thanking their
merciful god every day that the Israelis do not share their values of total
war, civilian massacre and genocide...yet.
Regards
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Casey
Sent: 16 May 2004 23:27
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
[Joe]
That has been the opinion of the average Palestinian for some time now, and
I haven't heard many ass-kicking calls issued in respect to them.
[Casey]
Two wrongs don't make a right, or at least that's what I was taught to
believe from an early age. Are you saying that calls for an "ass kicking"
will eventually turn the tide of Palestinian and Israeli aggressions? I
don't think so. You'll only inflame the millions of people who are
disenfranchised with the entire Palestinian debacle.
----
This message was posted by Casey to the Virus 2004 board on Church of Virus
BBS.
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=303
03>
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<http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
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Walter Watts
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Just when I thought I was out-they pull me back in
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Re: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #8 on: 2004-05-17 12:56:05 » |
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Except mine.
Walter
Erik Aronesty wrote:
> IMHO, no plot of land is worth killing over.
>
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Walter Watts
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No one gets to see the Wizard! Not nobody! Not no how!
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rhinoceros
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My point is ...
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Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #9 on: 2004-05-18 08:21:19 » |
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[Erik] IMHO, no plot of land is worth killing over.
[Walter] Except mine.
[rhinoceros] Heh... After spending hours to scribble replies and gather material most of which I didn't expect to be read, what do I find out?
That Walter made the Quote of the Day in just two words!
Just think of it.
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simul
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I am a lama.
 
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Re: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #10 on: 2004-05-18 09:10:20 » |
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[Erik] IMHO, no plot of land is worth killing over.
[Walter] Except mine.
[Erik] I'd never kill to defend land. Maybe I'd change my tune if I owned a house. Do people kill to get money to pay off their mortgages? If they did, would it be ethical? Maybe that's why I'm still renting. Not sure.
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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rhinoceros
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My point is ...
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Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #11 on: 2004-05-18 20:08:14 » |
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[Erik] IMHO, no plot of land is worth killing over.
[Walter] Except mine.
[Erik] I'd never kill to defend land. Maybe I'd change my tune if I owned a house. Do people kill to get money to pay off their mortgages? If they did, would it be ethical? Maybe that's why I'm still renting. Not sure.
[rhinoceros] I think that when you are done with paying your mortgage it is like having pissed around your territory. Things may look different then. It is not about accomodation. It is rather about having a base to "build" on, which you don't want disturbed.
Then again, some are more comfortable with "building" in their head and on their network of kin, friends, and associates. Others are more comfortable with rebuilding from scratch over and over. People come in many kinds. Go figure.
Well, enough with coffe house philosophy for the day...
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Mermaid
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Bite me!
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Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #12 on: 2004-05-19 04:16:39 » |
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I dont think there is anything wrong in being 'anti semitic' against israel when it comes to its current appalling behaviour. Anyone with me?
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rhinoceros
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My point is ...
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Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #13 on: 2004-05-19 09:30:54 » |
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I wouldn't call it 'antisemitism' to object to slaughter and leaving thousands homeless, struggling to lead a life in the occupied Palestine.
Here is what Reuter reported in the last two days. Do they expect peace after these terrorist acts?
==========================
Israel Kills 19 Palestinians in Big Gaza Raid
Reuters, May 18, 2004
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=5183968§ion=news
RAFAH, Gaza Strip (Reuters) - Israel's army killed 19 Palestinians on Tuesday in the heaviest raid in the Gaza Strip for years as tanks and infantry thrust into Rafah refugee camp, a militant hotbed, despite an international outcry.
The assault drew U.N. and European Union condemnation given Israeli threats to destroy hundreds of Palestinian homes there. Thousands of Palestinian houses have been razed since they began a revolt in occupied territory in 2000, U.N. figures show.
<snip>
President Bush called the Gaza bloodshed "troubling" but, addressing Jewish-Americans in a tight election campaign, told the powerful pro-Israel lobby group AIPAC that Israel "has every right to defend itself from terror."
<snip>
The raid led to the highest single-day Palestinian death toll -- civilians as well as militants -- since May 2002 when 23 were killed in an army sweep into the nearby Khan Younis area.
The Rafah hospital morgue became so overloaded that five bodies were shifted to vegetable freezers in a nearby market.
<snip>
===========================
Israeli Forces Fire on Crowd in Gaza, Killing 8
Reuters, May 19, 2004
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5192002
RAFAH, Gaza Strip (Reuters) - Israeli forces opened fire on a protest march in a besieged Gaza refugee camp on Wednesday, killing eight Palestinians and raising the death toll in Israel's heaviest raid in the Gaza Strip in years to 31.
Some witnesses reported seeing helicopter gunships launching missiles while others said tanks fired shells into a peaceful crowd of thousands, sending people fleeing in panic, some dragging bloodied comrades with them.
"I saw bodies dismembered, blood everywhere," one witness said as smoke rose from the scene.
Medics said eight people were killed and at least 50 wounded in the strike, which raised the two-day death toll to one of the highest in three and a half years of conflict. The Israeli army had no immediate comment.
The marchers had been surging toward the Tel Sultan neighborhood, the focal point of Israel's sweep into Rafah for the stated purpose of hunting militants and uncovering tunnels used to smuggle weapons across the border from Egypt.
Earlier Wednesday, Israeli forces killed four Palestinians and demanded the mass surrender of militants. The army said it hit gunmen. Palestinians said the dead, aged 14, 19, 24 and 37, were all civilians.
Bodies piled up in a flower freezer converted into a makeshift morgue after overflowing the Rafah refugee camp's main hospital where staff strained to cope with the dead along with dozens of wounded in two days of Israeli military assaults.
<snip>
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JD
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RE: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #14 on: 2004-05-19 10:25:51 » |
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Slaughter? Are you referring to the repeated suicide bombings (now fewer in
number thanks to Israel's robust security response)?
Anti-Semitism and anti-Israel often go together but are not necessarily
linked.
We know (and even al-Reuters have photos) of Palestinian gunmen using crowds
as cover. If some of those people get killed they can vent their anger at
their brave cower-behind-children " freedom fighters".
Let us not forget that these raids are responses to recent terrorist
activities. These raids are linked to the murder of a Jewish woman and her
four children in cold blood - and videotaped - by the same Palestinian
militants using civilians as cover to attack security forces virtually every
day.
Israel has absolutely nothing to gain from trying to appease its many
enemies. It only survives to this day because it has resolutely given the
finger to those who have sought its annihilation over the last 50 years.
Long may they fight on.
Regards
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
rhinoceros
Sent: 19 May 2004 14:31
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
I wouldn't call it 'antisemitism' to object to slaughter and leaving
thousands homeless, struggling to lead a life in the occupied Palestine.
Here is what Reuter reported in the last two days. Do they expect peace
after these terrorist acts?
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