Author
|
Topic: Jerusalem Post promotes genocide? (Read 3401 times) |
|
rhinoceros
Archon
Gender: 
Posts: 1318
Reputation: 8.27
Rate rhinoceros
My point is ...
  
|
 |
Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #30 on: 2004-05-19 20:50:15 » |
 |
[Jonathan Davies]
P.S. The skeptic in me wonders if the same people who blow up mosques and Iraqi schoolchildren might not have decided to sacrifice a few Palestinian children in the interests of propaganda. I will wait for the dust to settle before I believe anything (least of all The Sun's reports) especially after the so called Jenin Massacre, also widely condemned and hysterically denounced, turned out never to have happened.
[rhinoceros]
Jonathan, the skeptic in you has wandered a bit too far, I think. Anyway, CNN runs the same story with a more cautious title. They are probably waiting for the Israeli army to take some time investigating that abandoned building. They mention the 1600 Palestinians left homeless too.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/19/mideast/index.html
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
simul
Adept
Gender:
Posts: 614
Reputation: 7.86
Rate simul
I am a lama.
 
|
|
Re: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #33 on: 2004-05-19 22:37:05 » |
|
<Joe>
: I am not role-playing, I am merely
: noting the complete absence of
: such condemnation, wailing and
: teeth-gnashing on this list when a
: Palestinian who has been
: recruited,
People love to root for the underdog.
I agree with you earlier statment about finding fault with the actions both or neither - but not one or the other - as logically consistent.
---
To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
|
First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
|
|
|
rhinoceros
Archon
Gender:
Posts: 1318
Reputation: 8.27
Rate rhinoceros
My point is ...
|
|
Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #34 on: 2004-05-19 23:20:59 » |
|
[Joe Dees]
I am not role-playing, I am merely noting the complete absence of such condemnation, wailing and teeth-gnashing on this list when a Palestinian who has been recruited, trained, instructed in a target and provided a manufactured wearable explosive by an entire cooperative network blows himself up in an Israeli school bus, killing scores of children, as happened recently (one of hundreds of similar type attacks). Listening for the measured and evenhanded condemnation....listening....listening...(sound of crickets, breath of a wisp of breeze in the branches)...
[rhinoceros]
You can't be serious. There is no such thing as Inference by Bargaining. I myself have posted the news about suicide bomber attacks first -- when they happened. You can't get anywhere by canceling out nastiness. It must be tageted on the spot and examined both at the social level and at the level of personal responsibility.
To quote Eric. S. Raymond
"The road to hell has often been paved with good intentions. Therefore, evil is best recognized not by its motives but by its methods."
|
|
|
|
|
Blunderov
Archon
Gender:
Posts: 3160
Reputation: 8.90
Rate Blunderov
"We think in generalities, we live in details"
|
|
RE: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #35 on: 2004-05-20 02:42:50 » |
|
Jonathan Davis
Sent: 20 May 2004 01:33 AM
Hi B,
This is a at worst a dreadful - and extremely rare - mistake by the IDF. If
this were an attack by the other side, they would have deliberately targeted
the civilians.
Am I alone in seeing this important point? Can someone please link to any
Sun articles about "Palestinians massacre kids" as they did last month by
rifle but normally do by bomb?
What is truly terrible is the deliberate slaughter of innocents. This
however is a tragic accident of war.
Finally, can I say that those who accuse people who object to Israeli
actions as anti-Semitic are taking cheap shot. Just like opposition to a
war does not automatically make one an appeaser or a pacifist.
Son please do not legitimise anti-Semitism - a form of bigotry equal to
racism - by implying it is ever justified by the actions of the state of
Israel. Anti-Semitism refers to Jews everywhere. Opposition to Israel refers
to the actions of the government of Israel. Lets keep these separate in the
interests of accuracy and fairness.
[Blunder] Fair points. To be clear, I think that the Mermaid's quotation
marks ('anti semitism') were an irony intended to highlight the cheap shot
to which you alluded.
Best Regards
---
To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
|
|
|
|
|
Blunderov
Archon
Gender:
Posts: 3160
Reputation: 8.90
Rate Blunderov
"We think in generalities, we live in details"
|
|
RE: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #36 on: 2004-05-20 03:08:53 » |
|
Joe Dees
Sent: 20 May 2004 03:58 AM
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
I am not role-playing, I am merely noting the complete absence of such
condemnation, wailing and teeth-gnashing on this list when a Palestinian who
has been recruited, trained, instructed in a target and provided a
manufactured wearable explosive by an entire cooperative network blows
himself up in an Israeli school bus, killing scores of children, as happened
recently (one of hundreds of similar type attacks). Listening for the
measured and evenhanded condemnation....listening....listening...(sound of
crickets, breath of a wisp of breeze in the branches)...
----
[Blunderov] But if your terrorist were to have the decency to use an Apache
attack helicopter (made in the USA) to fire missiles in a crowd that would
be civilized of course?
But yes, under the circumstances condemnation seems pointless unless
directed at the origin of the conflict.
29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly forced Israel down
the Middle East's throat. By one vote if I recall correctly. To my chagrin,
IIRC, that vote was Jan Smuts the South African Prime Minister at the time.
One has to wonder whether things would have been any different otherwise -
the displaced and traumatized Jewish survivors of WW2 were clearly intent on
establishing the state of Israel come hell or highwater. They did not
hesitate to use 'terror' to further this aim. The Stern gang perpetrated
terrorist outrages against the British for instance
So the first terrorists in Palestine were...?
Best Regards
---
To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
|
|
|
|
|
DrSebby
Archon
Gender:
Posts: 456
Reputation: 8.23
Rate DrSebby
...Oh, you smell of lambs!
    
|
|
RE: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #37 on: 2004-05-20 06:20:07 » |
|
....oh my gawd joe....i just felt compelled to raise your reputation rating!
i know this probably doesnt matter much to you, but i've been so impressed
with your reasonable presence as of late, i felt it a necessary thing.
youve gone from a 3 to a 5 in my book...im still not sure if the old "crazy
joe" will show up again....so im holding off for a tad.
... i didnt have to say this, so dont beat me up over it just yet.
DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Joe Dees" <hidden@lucifer.com>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:57:32 -0600
I am not role-playing, I am merely noting the complete absence of such
condemnation, wailing and teeth-gnashing on this list when a Palestinian who
has been recruited, trained, instructed in a target and provided a
manufactured wearable explosive by an entire cooperative network blows
himself up in an Israeli school bus, killing scores of children, as happened
recently (one of hundreds of similar type attacks). Listening for the
measured and evenhanded condemnation....listening....listening...(sound of
crickets, breath of a wisp of breeze in the branches)...
----
This message was posted by Joe Dees to the Virus 2004 board on Church of
Virus BBS.
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=30303>
---
To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to
<http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
---
To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
|
"courage and shuffle the cards..."
|
|
|
rhinoceros
Archon
Gender:
Posts: 1318
Reputation: 8.27
Rate rhinoceros
My point is ...
|
|
Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #38 on: 2004-05-20 08:30:53 » |
|
This is from Haaretz, a non-zionist mainstream Israeli newspaper.
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=429660&contrassID=1
Security Council resolution condemns killing of civilians
By The Associated Press
UNITED NATIONS - With the United States abstaining, the UN Security Council adopted a resolution early Thursday calling on Israel to stop the demolition of Palestinian homes and condemning the killing of Palestinian civilians near the Rafah refugee camp in the southern Gaza Strip.
The decision by the U.S. to allow the adoption of a critical resolution reflected the Bush administration's displeasure at Israel's foray into Gaza.
The final vote was 14-0, with U.S. deputy ambassador James Cunningham abstaining.
The last time the U.S. abstained in a Security Council vote against Israeli actions was in September 24, 2002, when a resolution calling on Israel to withdraw its forces from Palestinian cities passed 14-0. The United States refrained from vetoing the resolution after language demanding that the Palestinians bring terrorists to justice was inserted.
The resolution expresses grave concern at "the recent demolition of homes committed by Israel, the occupying power, in the Rafah refugee camp." It "calls on Israel to respect its obligations under international humanitarian law and insists, in particular, on its obligation not to undertake demolition of homes contrary to that law."
<snip>
[rhinoceros]
The following argument of the Israeli ambassador about imminent doom sound familiar:
<quote>
"In fact, the whole of Gaza, and Rafah in particular, is on the verge of becoming a missile base aimed at Israel's cities and civilians," he said. "What would the international community have Israel do? Just sit back and wait for this horrific scenario to materialize?"
<end quote>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rhinoceros
Archon
Gender:
Posts: 1318
Reputation: 8.27
Rate rhinoceros
My point is ...
|
|
Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #40 on: 2004-05-20 08:56:37 » |
|
[simul]
People love to root for the underdog.
I agree with you earlier statment about finding fault with the actions both or neither - but not one or the other - as logically consistent.
[rhinoceros]
Erik, what would "finding fault with neither" mean in practice?
When a suicide bomber blows himself up in a bus (hasn't happened for a while) some of us may seek reasons but nobody says "Hey, let them continue" until now.
|
|
|
|
|
simul
Adept
Gender:
Posts: 614
Reputation: 7.86
Rate simul
I am a lama.
|
|
Re: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #41 on: 2004-05-20 10:33:16 » |
|
[simul]
People love to root for the underdog.
I agree with you earlier statment about finding fault with the actions both or neither - but not one or the other - as logically consistent.
[rhinoceros]
Erik, what would "finding fault with neither" mean in practice?
When a suicide bomber blows himself up in a bus (hasn't happened for a while) some of us may seek reasons but nobody says "Hey, let them continue" until now.
[simul]
Who is saying “let them continue”?
There are thousands of excellent reactions so, say, a suicide bomber blowing himself up in a bus. Finding fault with the bomber isn't one of them.
Some examples:
Finding fault with the bombing, itself as an a action.
Increase security on buses
Find out the reasons why the bomber did what he did and attempt to mitigate those circumstances
Make explosives/bombs harder to obtain/build.
See?
Sitting around and blaming the bomber gets us nowhere.
---
To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
|
First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
|
|
|
JD
Adept
Gender:
Posts: 542
Reputation: 7.26
Rate JD
|
|
RE: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #42 on: 2004-05-20 10:37:24 » |
|
What if he is right? After all Palestinian terrorists regularly target
civilians and there were recent attempts to attack chemical depots - attacks
which could have killed thousands if successful AND it is the sworn aim of
at least half a dozen organisations operating from Gaza to annihilate Israel
by any means necessary.
I understand their erring on the side of caution and historical precedent.
Kind regards
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
rhinoceros
Sent: 20 May 2004 13:31
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
SNIP
[rhinoceros]
The following argument of the Israeli ambassador about imminent doom sound
familiar:
<quote>
"In fact, the whole of Gaza, and Rafah in particular, is on the verge of
becoming a missile base aimed at Israel's cities and civilians," he said.
"What would the international community have Israel do? Just sit back and
wait for this horrific scenario to materialize?"
<end quote>
----
This message was posted by rhinoceros to the Virus 2004 board on Church of
Virus BBS.
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=303
03>
---
To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to
<http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
---
To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rhinoceros
Archon
Gender:
Posts: 1318
Reputation: 8.27
Rate rhinoceros
My point is ...
|
|
Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #44 on: 2004-05-20 12:18:40 » |
|
[rhinoceros] When a suicide bomber blows himself up in a bus (hasn't happened for a while) some of us may seek reasons but nobody says "Hey, let them continue" until now.
[simul] Who is saying “let them continue”?
[rhinoceros] Erik, watch the following. Then make up a similar story swapping the actors, and a (not very) subtle element of the discussion we are having here will become apparent. If it doesn't, then forget it, it is just me.
<from another exchange>
[rhinoceros] Reuters, minutes ago.
RAFAH, Gaza Strip (Reuters) - Defying international fury and rare U.S. rebuke, Israel has expanded its bloodiest Gaza Strip raid in years after killing 39 Palestinians in three days of fighting in the Rafah refugee camp.
<snip>
[Jonathan Davis] I am glad they are finishing what they started, despite the civilian losses. Otherwise they will simply have to do it all again.
This will all be over when they pull out of Gaza as planned.
<end>
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
