Re: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #45 on: 2004-05-20 12:07:47 »
: What if he is right? After all : Palestinian terrorists regularly : target civilians and there were : recent attempts to attack : chemical depots - attacks
If he had pictures of the Palestinians building a missile base I Gaza, then, well, his response would have been a lot easier to justify.
Re: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #46 on: 2004-05-20 13:23:39 »
[rhinoceros] Erik, watch the following. Then make up a similar story swapping the actors, and a (not very) subtle element of the discussion we are having here will become apparent. If it doesn't, then forget it, it is just me.
<from another exchange> [rhinoceros] Reuters, minutes ago.
RAFAH, Gaza Strip (Reuters) - Defying international fury and rare U.S. rebuke, Israel has expanded its bloodiest Gaza Strip raid in years after killing 39 Palestinians in three days of fighting in the Rafah refugee camp. <snip>
<Erik>
Ok, so, by similar story I think you mean:
Israel is not “at fault” for these actions. Rather than blame them, we can blame their actions. We can see them as misguided and ask ourselves what we can do.
There are thousands of solutions to the “israel is violent” situation:
For example, we can:
Look at the root causes of their anger and violence and see if we can find a way to mitigate these circumstances
Provide better security and information to the Palestinians
Hold education and integration conferences in Israel
Etc.
Different situation... same constructive way of thinking.
Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #47 on: 2004-05-20 14:50:27 »
[rhinoceros] Erik, you are right of course, but I was talking about "a story", not an argument.
I'll have to spell it out, I guess.
(1) Jonathan replies to the UN condemnation and US reprimanding: "I am glad they are finishing what they started, despite the civilian losses. Otherwise they will simply have to do it all again. This will all be over when they pull out of Gaza as planned."
(2) A similar story by swapping actors would be this: "I am glad they blew up those Israelis in the bus; keep up the good work and all will soon be over."
Both statement (2) and statement (1) are morally and technically wrong (the kin and neighbors of the dead and the thousands of homeless will want to get even -- personally).
The difference is that nobody has ever made statement (2) while we have to deal with statements like (1). In other words, the "call for a balanced view" was actually about a balance between "killing Palestinians and razing down their homes is part of a solution" and "no, it is not".
Not equivalent, because the civilian deaths in Gaza are an unintentional and regrettable side consequence of waging a war upon terrorists who use civilians as human shields behind which they hide as they shoot, whereas the bus, mall and restaurant bombings are intentional targetings of civilians. However, those who condemn the first while remaining conspicuously silent on the second are themselves engaging in the very moral equivalence, unacceptable and untrue as it is, of which they vainly attempt to accuse their anti-terror critics, who are actually making such sound and valid distinctions.
Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #49 on: 2004-05-20 19:12:20 »
[Joe Dees] Not equivalent, because the civilian deaths in Gaza are an unintentional and regrettable side consequence of waging a war upon terrorists who use civilians as human shields behind which they hide as they shoot, whereas the bus, mall and restaurant bombings are intentional targetings of civilians. However, those who condemn the first while remaining conspicuously silent on the second are themselves engaging in the very moral equivalence, unacceptable and untrue as it is, of which they vainly attempt to accuse their anti-terror critics, who are actually making such sound and valid distinctions.
[rhinoceros] See what I mean? Joe says these killings are a regretable side consequence of something which has to go on anyway. So, they shoot a round into the crowd to get some terrorists walking among these "human shields", which has these regretable consequences, but they have to do it anyway. Or, on other occasions they are dutifully buldozing someone's property and that woman sitting in front is too much trouble to bother moving her. Or... or...
By the way, isn't this story about "human shields" getting old? I didn't see this allegation stop the Israeli army from shooting into the crowd. On the other hand, there are more and more reports about Israelis using Palestinian civilians as human shields when going after Palestinian gunmen.
PS: I talk about suicide bombings in buses when they happen. Until then, the best I can do is talk against their causes.
Today's incident in Rafah is a very grave incident and the IDF expresses deep sorrow over the loss of civilian lives.
At no point in this incident was intentional fire opened in the direction of civilians.
A large procession of several hundreds demonstrators, among them gunmen, organized by the Palestinian Authority, left central Rafah along the main road towards IDF forces in Tel-Sultan.
As the crowd, with the gunmen among them, drew near IDF forces, a warning fire of a single missile was fired from a helicopter into an open area, not towards the demonstrators.
In addition, flares were fired in the air to deter the crowd and to prevent endangering the demonstrators. As this did not deter the crowd and they continued to converge on the troops, machine gun fire was opened towards a wall of an abandoned structure along the side of the road and then four tank shells were fired at this abandoned structure.
It is possible that the causalities were a result of the tank fire on the abandoned structure. The details of the incident continue to be investigated.
It should be mentioned that the scene of the incident is an area of combat and an area of frequent exchanges of fire. The road has been rigged with explosive charges planted by the Palestinians. The IDF has not yet cleared the road of these explosives.
At this stage it is difficult to determine the cause of the civilian casualties. The incident is being investigated thoroughly at this time.
The IDF has approached the Palestinians and offered medical assistance, including the evacuation of the casualties to Israeli hospitals.
(Joe) And yet the propaganda Jeninification of this incident proceeds apace, and certain people buy into it lock, stock barrel, hook, line and sinker.
BTW: Palestinian houses are bulldozed for one of three reasons: 1) hostile fire has been directed at Israeli troops from the house 2) a resident of the house carried out a suicide bomb attack against Israelis 3) a weapons smuggling tunnel has been discovered in the house
The few times that Palestinians have been killed in houses in such bulldozings, it has been because they did not evacuate them when warned to do so, but instead hid in them, and were too well hidden in the houses to be discovered during the routine pre-bulldozing search.
And the causes of Palestinian suicide bombings are a culture that glorifies them, a network that recruits people with whom to to perpetrate them, another network that trains those people in how to perpetrate them, another network that smuggles in the components with which to build harness bombs, and yet another network which builds them, as well as a command to the outfitted and trained jihadi recruits from still another network to go do them (of course all these networks are interconnected and share some, but not all, of their members).
Re: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #51 on: 2004-05-20 16:54:22 »
I see! Yes, very accurate comparison... being glad when a Palestinian kills jews is not often heard, but it is morally equivalent. Very good point.
We can be thankful any time either Israelis or Palestinians die - because it will bring us sooner to the end of conflict. But this is flawed thinking, because for every person who dies there are a dozen more in grief who take up the cause of war.
Or we can condemn acts of violence equally...like the UN does.
Or we can recognize that condemnation is, in general, inefective (as is the UN).
Or we can take personal responsibility for the situation. (My favorite)
Maybe Virus can host a moderated Israeli/Palistinian dialogue - in Las Vegas?
Maybe each one of us can ask around to locate Palistinians and Israeli's that they know that would be interested in such a thing?
Re: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #52 on: 2004-05-20 22:04:29 »
Suicide bombers, having no access to conventional weaponry, must regrettably resort to a more vicious and intimate mode of warfare.
I'm sure if we armed the Palistinian people with bilions of dollars in tanks and mortars, etc. They'd be happy to fight like a civilized army. In fact, they'd have a hard time finding someone to “suicide bomb” civilians if they were well equipped for war.
It's really a situation where “he who is winning looks legit”. If Israeli's were losing, and had to resort to suicide bombs, then they'd look bad too.
Let us remember that Israel has three times in its history been simultaneously attacked by multiple Muslim countries with aircraft, tanks and other heavy weapons, and armies of troops, from all sides; without the weapons they have, they surely would not have survived. Let us also remember that before the 1967 war that the West Bank was in Jordanian hands and Gaza was in Egyptian hands, and there was no talk of a Palestinian state then. In fact, the attacks upon Israel by Egypt and Jordan were largely launched from these areas.
That having been said, here's another article about the right to self-defence:
We live in a highly secular age when we're not supposed to talk in terms like "evil" any more.
But how can one characterize actions like the beheading of Nick Berg last week without using that term?
How can one describe the attack in Gaza two weeks ago when Arabs stopped the car of a young mother of four and, with automatic rifle fire, killed her, her unborn child and all four of her kids?
How can one characterize what happened to this nation on Sept. 11, 2001, without using that word?
Evil should be more real to us in the 21st century than ever before. So I don't know why we shy away from using the word. We all recognize there are bad people around us.
That's why we put locks on our doors, build fences around our properties, pay police forces to protect us and arm ourselves to defend our families from wrongdoers.
But somehow, when it comes to international relations, we pretend there aren't bad peoples, bad nations, entire groups of people sworn to do evil.
Some prefer to believe that nearly all disputes in the world can be solved through diplomacy.
Have you ever tried diplomacy when you were being mugged?
It doesn't work.
The only thing that works is force. The only thing that works is fighting back. The only thing that works is winning the battle “ whether it's with the help of others, the help of a weapon or your own self-defense skills. It's true with nations, too.
I finally figured out why there is so much media attention on and so much Arab criticism of two recent actions by Israel “ the building of a security fence and the killing of two terrorist leaders.
Do you know why the firestorm?
Because they are working.
As amazing as it might seem, since the first part of that security fence was completed in March, there has not been a single successful suicide bombing in Israel.
And, of course, despite all the hyperbolic warnings about revenge for the killings of Hamas leaders Sheihk Ahmed Yassin and Abdul Aziz Rantissi, there has not been a single successful suicide bombing attack in Israel since those targeted assassinations either.
Perhaps most tellingly, not a single suicide bomber has infiltrated Israel from the Gaza Strip, which has been surrounded by a fence similar to the security perimeter being constructed along the West Bank.
Israel is doing just what we do in our own personal lives to protect ourselves. It is building fences to protect its civilians from hostile neighbors and it is punishing mass murderers with execution.
It's the right of any nation to defend itself and that is what Israel is doing. Israel is militarily capable of destroying its enemies, all of them. But it does not. It shows restraint, even in the face of murderous provocation. There's a lesson for all of us in this recent experience.
We can't solve all of our problems through negotiations, no matter how hard we try. Sometimes we just have to defend ourselves. Most of us know this in America. There was near-unanimous support for the invasion of Afghanistan. There was strong support for the invasion of Iraq.
But it's a political season, and now power-hungry opportunists are tearing at the fabric of our society, dividing us while our troops fight to protect us and our way of life.
They say we should have tried harder to convince other nations to join us. They say we didn't give diplomacy enough time. They say we as a people are arrogant. They say we are being as mean and cruel and evil as the enemies we overthrew.
Personally, I'm getting sick of these compromisers with evil, these appeasers of terrorism, these weak-kneed, blame-America-first whiners. You know what I say?
Learn from the Israelis. It's time to build more fences and kill more terrorists. That's a policy that works.
"Israel has no war with the Palestinian people but with terror; and with those who are determined to destroy the Jewish State"
Statement by Ambassador Dan Gillerman, Permanent Representative of Israel to the United Nations, Before the Security Council
(19 May 2004)
Mr. President, At the outset, let me congratulate you on your able conduct of the presidency of the Council during the month of May. Let me also commend the stewardship of Ambassador Pleuger during the month of April.
We convene here as usual, at the urgent behest of the Palestinian Observer, under a barrage of information, misinformation and disinformation. In the interests of truth and objectivity, let us first get the facts straight. I wish to state emphatically and officially that the numbers distributed by the Palestinians about the events in Rafah today are exaggerated and totally false. I can only express my disappointment that some members of the international community, including sadly in the statement attributed to the Secretary-General, have been misled by the Palestinian propaganda machine to false conclusions which do not reflect the facts on the ground. We have unfortunately not heard such strong sentiments expressed when innocent Israelis were slain.
So first, let us get the facts straight:
During a large procession of several thousand demonstrators, which included many gunmen, seven Palestinians were killed, of which four to five were armed terrorists. The incident occurred as the crowd left central Rafah along the main road towards IDF forces in Tel-Sultan. The demonstration was organized by none other than the Palestinian Authority, in violation of the established curfew.
While Israel regrets any loss of civilian life, these numbers put into proportion today's incident which itself took place under conditions of heavy fighting by Palestinian terrorists. Under the incredibly difficult circumstances in which Israel has taken action against the terrorist infrastructure in the Gaza Strip, terrorists operate amongst civilians and tragedy can strike. Israel has done and will continue to do everything it can to prevent harm to innocent civilians. Even during times of war, the death of innocent civilians is regrettable, but we cannot be deluded by false pretense and any ambiguity between the terrorists and those who fight this deplorable scourge.
The Palestinian Observer has described the litany of Palestinian suffering without pointing a finger at those responsible for this suffering - his own corrupt and evil leadership who, while rejecting offers of peace by Israel and the international community, have resorted to terror and violence - dragging Israel, the whole region, and the Palestinians down a road of horror, bloodshed and destruction. It is this Palestinian leadership that is choosing the course of terror, rather than the road of peace. The Palestinian leadership has brought on itself the reality described, albeit blatantly and biased, by the Palestinian Observer. Is it this leadership that is the real tragedy.
We find it regrettable that certain members of the Council are galvanized to condemn Israel's response to the ongoing Palestinian terrorist campaign, and not those actions that have brought the region to despair and compelled Israel to take defensive measures.
Once again the members of the Council are forced to convene to debate a draft text that should absolve any careful observer of the illusion that the intent of its drafters is the improvement of the situation in the region and the encouragement of a fair, lasting and comprehensive peace settlement. The one-sided text before us this afternoon rebukes Israel but fails to expressly condemn - by name and not ambiguous terminology - the Palestinian terrorism that necessitated Israeli action. The Palestinian delegation has once again rejected any language that seeks to recognize any consideration for the legitimate aims of Israel's defensive counter-terrorist operation.
To be frank, this blatant and one-sided posture is more a blemish on the record of those who presented this draft resolution to the Council, much more a transparent exercise in double standards, than it is an admonition of Israeli conduct.
The Security Council has never dealt with the dangers to peace and security of smuggling arms through the tunnels of Rafah from Egypt. It did not meet to condemn the horrendous desecration of the bodies of Israeli soldiers, young men who were killed during a defensive operation to dismantle these tunnels. It did not come together following the hijacking of an UNRWA ambulance by armed elements in Gaza last week. It did not stand up against the murder of a mother and her four daughters in the Gaza Strip or the continuing cultivation of a culture of hate and destruction by the Palestinian leadership.
The Council will not serve the cause of peace in the Middle East by condemning Israeli actions and ignoring the violence, terrorism, and incitement that continues to emanate from the Palestinian leadership. Such repeated rituals embolden terrorism and not those that seek to dismantle it.
Mr. President,
Today Israel stands at the gates of hell in the Gaza Strip. The southern city of Rafah serves as the "Arms Smuggling Gateway" of the Palestinian Authority and the main pipeline for transporting weapons and ammunition into Gaza. Since September 2000, subterranean tunnels constructed underneath the "Philadelphi Route" have been used by Iran and Hizbullah, as well as by Palestinian terrorist organizations like Hamas and the PFLP for turning the Gaza Strip into a base for missile and rocket attacks against Israeli targets.
These tunnels of terror provide the conduit for the smuggling of large amounts of diverse weapons, including among them, hundreds of kilograms of explosives, hundreds of rifles (mainly AK-47 Kalashnikovs), tens of thousands of ammunitions and dozens of RPG rockets and launchers, which are entirely incompatible with signed agreements and any plan for a return to non-violent negotiations.
Mr. President,
Israel views the illicit trade and trafficking in small arms and light weapons as a humanitarian issue, as well as a security one. We cannot forget for a moment that the terrorists seek not only to harm civilians in the locations they target, but also in the locations in which they seek shelter and from where they launch their attack. The Rafah tunnels are typically dug inside residential homes to evade discovery by Israeli security personnel, in blatant disregard for the safety and well-being of Palestinian civilians. They are concealed under bathrooms, living rooms and kitchens. They are intentionally hidden under the beds of children and little babies, concealed by loose planks and rags.
The smuggling of massive arsenals and weapons at epidemic proportions, and the cynical use of civilian areas to launch terrorist attacks, invariably leads to the loss of innocent life and affects the basic right of people to lead their lives peacefully, without fear of getting killed for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Terrorized by these concerns, there has been growing opposition among local residents to the tunnel building and weapons smuggling in Rafah. Last year numerous demonstrations by local residents were staged outside the Palestinian Authority's Police and Preventive Security headquarters and other public buildings to protest the ongoing "policy of apathy" among the leadership of the PA.
Mr. President,
Unfortunately, Israel does not have the luxury of pursuing this policy of apathy and inaction. Faced with the failure of the Palestinian leadership to comply with its obligations to fight terrorism, stop incitement and prevent the smuggling of weapons, Israel remains obligated to act in self-defense against a threat that poses a clear and present danger to innocent lives while upholding its obligations under international law.
The unhindered effort by terrorist organizations to smuggle high-quality weapons, including RPGs, Katyusha rockets, anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles, has already lead to an escalation in the security situation and can further lay burden on the population in the Gaza Strip. In recent months, Palestinian terrorist organizations operating in Gaza have commenced in executing a systematic plan to turn Gaza into a platform for launching rockets and missiles capable of reaching the entire aerial territory of Israel. In fact, the whole of Gaza, and Rafah in particular, is on the verge of becoming a missile base aimed at Israel's cities and civilian population.
What would the international community have Israel do? Just sit back and wait for this horrific scenario to materialize?
As the Israeli Chief of Staff, Moshe Ya'alon, said last week, "It appears to us that although we are doing the best we can to prevent the smuggling of weapons to the Gaza Strip, the Palestinians have managed to smuggle RPG's, which they are not supposed to have. They have been successful in smuggling RPG's and quite a few too. We know for a fact that on the Egyptian side of the border, at the top of the Sinai Desert, there are weapons that have reached that area. As far as we are concerned, Iran, through Hizbullah, is responsible for the presence of these weapons in that area. They are the ones that promote the smuggling of weapons into Gaza, unfortunately through the Sinai. This has happened because they have found the other borders to be impossible to penetrate, either by land or water. This is what makes this region, at the Egyptian-Israeli border, the weakest link for weapons smuggling."
Mr. President,
If Israel does not act today to fight against the weapons smuggled and manufactured in Gaza, next month Katyusha rockets will be aimed at the homes of its citizens.
The purpose of the current IDF action in Gaza is to terminate the transfer of all illegal weapons by underground tunnels to Gaza. One security measure employed in this regard is the demolition of structures that pose an operative security risk to Israeli forces. Recent actions have shown this counter-measure to be an effective and lawful way to minimize the occurrence of such attacks in general, and suicide terrorism in particular.
Since April of this year, the IDF has exposed eight underground tunnels used for smuggling weapons in the area of Rafah, in addition to 11 underground tunnels since the beginning of this year and 90 underground tunnels since the beginning of the Intifada in September 2000. And just this week, the IDF discovered a new tunnel in Rafah already activated for use in smuggling arms into Gaza. The tunnel was 150 meters long, 5 meters deep and had 4 openings that led directly into Palestinian homes in the area.
IDF actions in Gaza have been criticized as collective punishment. Let me be clear: These tunnels are collective in their harm to all peoples in the area but require a response that is precise and decisive in its effect. While certain security measures taken in self-defense and necessitated by terrorist threats do unfortunately cause hardships to sectors of the Palestinian population, this is categorically not their intent.
Both customary law and conventional law make it clear that the use of civilian objects and dwellings to support a military attack, constitutes a war crime. The IDF does not demolish structures indiscriminately. Only those involved in terror and violence against Israeli civilians hold no immunity.
When terrorists fire from within civilian structures, activate roadside charges from trees and fields or use a structure to conceal a weapons transfer tunnel, military necessity dictates the demolition of these locations. Under international law, these structures are considered legitimate military targets. Therefore, in the midst of combat, when dictated by operational necessity, Israeli security forces may lawfully destroy structures used by terrorists. This is common knowledge - and yet it is too often that for this Council is called upon to apply a different standard to Israel.
While operating against the terrorist infrastructure, Israel is doing its utmost to minimize the humanitarian impact on the civilian population.
Israel refrains whenever possible from attacking terrorist targets from the air or with artillery, in order to minimize collateral damage. In so doing, Israel risks greater danger to the lives of its soldiers in order to lessen the risk to local residents. The death of 13 soldiers in ground operations in the Gaza Strip earlier this month is an example of the heavy price Israel pays for its commitment to minimize Palestinian civilian casualties. This was not the first time that the strict employment of such standards has resulted in the death of Israelis.
Mr. President,
Israel's action in Gaza is all the more critical in the face of the failure of the Palestinian leadership to act determinedly against this threat. Today, weapons smuggling is run and managed by terrorist organizations with the approval and active participation of the Palestinian Authority. Amazingly enough, the PA has actually encouraged residents to conceal tunnels in their residences, which results in the demolition of their home. This brings with it an ample windfall: the construction of a new house by the Palestinian Authority.
Despite all of this, Israel's Prime Minister remains committed to promoting his plan for disengagement from Gaza. Earlier this month, leaders from the international community met here in New York to discuss ideas for implementing this Israeli initiative. There was a general agreement that the plan would improve the situation in Gaza for Palestinians and Israelis alike. However, the Palestinian response has been to increase violence and to renew its commitment to terror as a "solution." Just two days ago, Yasser Arafat addressed his people calling on them to "terrorize the enemy." What signal does rejectionist leadership, weapons smuggling, parading with body parts and shooting mothers and daughters send to those who desire peace in our region?
The complete and utter refusal of the Palestinian Authority to prevent these actions violates the most basic norms of human rights, morality, signed agreements and peace plans such as the Road Map. In the vacuum left by these willful violations, members of Yasser Arafat's own Fatah Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade and the Islamic Jihad were able to proudly and publicly claim responsibility for the "heroic" attack earlier this month on a pregnant Israeli mother and her four children - aged 2 to 11 -- gunned down at point blank range in Gaza.
These violations cost the lives of the Hatuel family and they will cost the lives of hundreds more unless the Palestinian leadership finally lives up to its responsibilities or, failing that, Israel undertakes the necessary defensive measures. If the Palestinian Authority had acted to fulfill its responsibilities, as stated in the First Stage of the Implementation of the Road Map, there would be no need for the current IDF activity.
It should be emphasized: it is the Palestinians, not Israel, that have turned civilian homes into military targets. And it is those in the Palestinian leadership that place a higher price on smuggling weapons than on the welfare of the innocent resident population, those that have abandoned all responsibility and allowed its civilians to be at the mercy of terrorist groups that use their homes and their bodies as shields, that have forced us to take these steps.
The suffering of the Palestinian population is a direct result of Palestinian terrorism aimed at innocent Israelis, and the need for Israel to protect its citizens from these abhorrent attacks. Rather than criticizing Israel for damaging private property, those truly concerned for Palestinian welfare including humanitarian organizations in the area should instead demand that the terrorists stop using homes to shield their illegal operations.
Mr. President,
Israel has no war with the Palestinian people. We have no war with the Palestinian aspiration for statehood. The Prime Minister has stated clearly that Israel believes in the vision of two states, side by side, in peace and security. We have a war with terror, and with those who are determined not to create the Palestinian state, but to destroy the Jewish one. For nearly four years, Israelis have been the victims of a relentless and ongoing campaign by Palestinian terrorists to spread death and destruction, condemning our region to ongoing turmoil, killing 977 Israelis and injuring more than 6000.
A genuine and responsible Palestinian leadership must be called finally and in clear terms - not in the faltering language of this typically one-sided resolution - to fight a war with terror too. It is time that we should ask the Palestinian leadership whether inciting terror, smuggling weapons and celebrating by dancing with the limbs of the dead are helping the cause of their people. It is time to make it clear that terrorism, even in the Palestinian cities of Gaza, is always unacceptable.
Achieving peace is simply not possible in an atmosphere of violence and terrorism. Characteristically, the Palestinian leadership has accepted this in principle and then proceeded to undertake every diversionary tactic it could conceive to avoid fulfilling its obligations. What was true in September 2000 remains true today: No progress is possible in the region so long as the Palestinian Authority continues to use its position and its resources to encourage a campaign of violence and terrorist against the citizens of Israel.
This draft resolution regrettably does nothing to further peace in the Middle East. Sadly, until the Palestinian people produce a credible and sane leadership that truly wants peace, is willing to dismantle the infrastructure of terror, and negotiate in good faith, no resolution will. Thank you, Mr. President
It was a week that began with barbarism and ended with boundless stupidity.
First, a Palestinian terrorist murdered an entire family. David Hatuel lost his pregnant wife and their four daughters, aged 2-11, when they were murdered at point-blank range on the Kisufim entrance road into Gush Katif in the Gaza Strip. Then, at a memorial service, PLO terrorists opened fire on the mourners. Just when it seemed the Palestinians could not possibly exhibit behavior more barbaric than that, out came masses of the savages to defile and degrade the remains of Israeli soldiers murdered by a large bomb, using body parts of the dead for sport and then hiding the remains to prevent the families of the dead soldiers from giving them a decent burial.
The murdered soldiers were in an armored personnel carrier that was hit by a large mine, composed of explosives smuggled into the Gaza Strip through the many smuggling tunnels operating from Egypt. These are the same tunnels that the dimwitted "anarchists" from Western universities come to protect. (The now notorious Rachel Corrie, a radical student from Washington State, died when she challenged an Israeli military bulldozer operating against the tunnels to a game of Chicken.)
When the mine went off, it set off the ammunition inside the APC, and six soldiers were literally blown to pieces. Their pieces were scattered about the burning remains of the vehicle. The Palestinian ghouls from the houses nearby rushed to the scene to grab human organs as playthings and souvenirs.
The next day, Israeli forces entered the area to recover the remains. The Palestinians again opened fire. A second APC hit a mine and another five soldiers were murdered. Finally, two more soldiers were murdered by Palestinian snipers attempting to recover these bodies. Israel responded by bulldozing a few dozen homes of the ghouls who had participated in the atrocity involving the stolen body parts, triggering the usual breathless expressions of righteous outrage from the usual quarters. A group of leftists even petitioned Israel's Supreme Court to order a halt to the demolition of houses. After all, destroying the house of a ghoul is so insensitive.
Meanwhile, the Israeli media, under the near total hegemony of the Left, are proclaiming that 150,000 people showed up for the rally last Saturday night that called for unilateral Israeli self-annihilation. This in a square that can at most hold 60,000. (The 150,000 whopper is actually small potatoes for the the Israeli media, which in 1982 fabricated the even more ludicrous figure of 400,000 for a rally against the incursion into Lebanon.)
The participants were those Israelis who still insist that detachment from reality is the best path toward achieving peace. The fact that "Oslo thinking" and the approach promoted by the Left have produced nothing but carnage for that past 12 years is absolutely no reason to abandon them. The banner of the rally was "The Majority Decides" -- but of course that was not meant to refer to the 60 percent majority who voted against any Israeli withdrawal from Gaza in the recent Likud referendum. Perhaps it meant the majority of Israeli journalists.
Almost perfectly timed to coincide with the leftist rally for capitulation, Yasir Arafat gave a "Naqba Day" address in which he openly urged Palestinians to engage in mass terror against the Jews. "Find what strength you have to terrorize your enemy and the enemy of God," he said. This is the creature -- and along with him the ghouls who played hide-and-seek with Israeli body parts -- with whom the rally participants wish to "discuss peace" and to whom they wish to make new appeasement as goodwill gestures.
But hold on to your shtreimels, because there are even greater political surprises now emerging. In recent months the Israeli Left has all but abandoned the slogan of "Land for Peace," since it is evident to all earthlings outside the U.S. State Department and the Israeli Labor Party that Israel cannot buy peace by appeasing the Arabs with land. Instead, the new slogan of the Israeli Left is "Land for Nothing." You think I'm joshing? I wish I were!
Consider the letter in Haaretz (May 16) from Amiram Goldblum, a professor of pharmacy at Hebrew University. Goldblum is one of the founders of and true believers in Peace Now, the protest movement responsible for the kind of thinking that has led to 1,400 Israelis murdered and tens of thousands wounded and traumatized in the years since Oslo. In his letter Goldblum insists that "Land for Peace" is passe, because it implies that, until the PLO is prepared to make peace, Israel should hold on to the "occupied" lands.
Instead, Goldblum suggests that Israel withdraw unilaterally from all the "occupied lands" whether the PLO wants peace or not, just because it is the nice thing to do. After Israel returns to its pre-1967 lines ("Auschwitz borders," as the late Abba Eban called them), Israeli leaders, writes Goldblum, can then ask the PLO for talks -- I guess to discuss whether any Jews should be permitted to remain in the illegal settlement of Tel Aviv or the occupied territory known as Haifa.
Of all the emotional moments over the past few days, I found the most moving to have been a simple old archive tape, broadcast on the TV news, of a mother singing to her son.
Among those murdered in the second attack on the APC in Gaza last week was one Lior Vishinski. He had been trained in tunnel warfare, that horrific fighting of the sort that left many a Vietnam veteran an emotional vegetable. Lior`s job was to stop the smuggling of explosives into Gaza from Egypt, and ironically he himself fell victim to a large mine composed of just such smuggled explosives.
Lior was the son of two actors from Israel's bohemian Tel Aviv theater set. The divorced parents are hardly right-wingers and are not Orthodox. Indeed, like the leftist father of Nick Berg, the Jew from Philadelphia murdered in Iraq, Lior's own father tastelessly attempted to exploit the death of his son to make political capital and promote the political agenda of the Left.
Be that as it may, the evening after Lior was murdered, Israel's Channel Two broadcast an old tape from its archive. In it was Lior, several years younger, sitting on a stage next to his beautiful mother. She was singing to him a song. It was a lovely religious song, even though she is evidently not observant. Smiling at her son, she sang the stanza, apparently to an old Yiddish melody, with words from the daily prayer book: "There are some things whose amount has no defined quantity, and these include acts of compassion, where a man eats from the fruits in this world yet enjoys the full 'principal' in the next world."
She sang the verse over and over, smiling and watching her son. Who was murdered last week by Palestinian savages.
Some say that we are we are re-living the 1930's. I disagree. Today, the danger to Jews is far graver and more complex than it was in the pagan or medieval-Christian world, or during World War Two.
Today, anti-Jewish, anti-Israeli, and anti-American propaganda has gone global. It is visually masterful, technologically sophisticated, and available around the clock, especially in Arabic. Jews and Zionists can be "seen" holding a meeting of the (fake) Elders of Zion, (falsely) demanding that Jesus be tortured and crucified, committing (fake) massacres in Jenin, and stabbing non-Jewish children to death for their blood.
Old-fashioned Czarist-, Nazi-, and Stalinist-era anti-Semitic stereotypes (the Jews control the media and the banks and seek world domination), have been added to the pre-existing Islamic views of Jews as subhuman infidels. The mix is a hot brew of relentless hatred.
Jew-haters are creating a situation in which, dare I say it? Yes, I must say it, another mass murder, perhaps even a Holocaust-like mass murder of Jews might be possible. Indeed, in my view, it has already begun, certainly not in America, and not yet in Europe, but in Israel.
Today, Jews who live in the Jewish state, a nation that was initially envisioned as the solution to the ceaseless persecution of the Jews, are far more endangered than those who live in the Diaspora. Worse: The existence of the Jewish state is now being used to justify verbal and physical attacks against Diaspora Jews around the world and on campuses throughout the Western world. For example, "Zionism" is an increasingly dirty word on campuses. I am also told that among American teenagers, the word "Jew" is increasingly being used pejoratively.
Israel has served as the laboratory, or groundzero, in the terrorist war against the West. It is where the Islamofascists have perfected their experiments, their grisly, spectacular, and well-choreographed mass murders and their ingenious use of hijacked planes.
In my recent book, The New Anti-Semitism: The Current Crisis and What We Must Do About It, I was among the first to characterize the new anti-Semitism as an alliance between Islamofascist terrorists and "politically correct" western intellectuals. Both groups have remained morally blind to the slaughter of innocent civilians in Israel and America. Worse, they have blamed that slaughter on Israeli and American policy. In their frenzy to scapegoat Israel for all human suffering, these new anti-Semites have joined the United Nations, international human rights groups, and the media in failing to condemn the most horrendous human rights abuses in the world, including genocide.
Reality Turned Upside-Down
The propaganda war against Israel and against Jews is staggering, both visually and linguistically. It is often vulgar and blatant but it is also subtle, earnest, persuasive. One is forced to confront Big Lies at every level, socially, professionally, among scholars and in the media.
Today, Israel is the world's punching-bag symbol for "Colonial, Apartheid, Oppressor." Although Arafat began his terrorist campaign against Israel in 1964 when the "offending" settlements were Tel Aviv and Haifa, his terrorism against Israel is justified because of the offending Israeli occupation of Gaza and the West Bank. Let me quote from ex-PLO terrorist Walid Shoebat, who has since converted to Christianity and is now pro-Israel. In an interview in the Jerusalem Post, Shoebat suggested the unthinkable: "The true occupation is of the minds of Palestinians, of teaching them hatred for Jews. That is the real occupation."
Let me expand upon that. The true occupation also includes the utter Palestinianization and highjacking of the western media and the western academic world into believing that black is white, day is night, that the Palestinian Authority can do no wrong, and Israel can do no right.
Say this on many campuses in North America or Europe and you will be mocked, scorned, intimidated, bullied, raged at, perhaps even physically endangered. And not by illiterate, impoverished, formerly colonized people but by well-heeled tenured faculty and bright doctoral students, some of whom will soon run for public office.
"Politically correct" Americans, including some Jews, have joined Islamists in embracing the Palestinians as the most oppressed and most Noble of Savages whose misery, in their view, has been caused solely by a cabal of Zionists, Orthodox Jews, and Christian Republican conservatives.
This unholy alliance of politically correct progressives and Islamists has presented the long-suffering Palestinians and their corrupt and murderous leadership as secular versions of Jesus crucified. Newspaper cartoonists have literally portrayed Arafat as Jesus. They have also romanticized Arafat, bin Laden, and their human bombs as Che Guevara- and Nelson Mandela-like "freedom fighters."
Bizarrely, tragically, these new anti-Semites have decided that Israel is the "greatest oppressor of all time," and is "worse than the Nazis", surely a new form of Holocaust denial.
They also characterize Israel as an "apartheid" state (which it is not). In fact, Islam is the largest practitioner of apartheid in the world, both in terms of religion and gender; Israel once again is the scapegoat for this.
Today, Israelis are being slaughtered not only because they happen to live in a nation engaged in a local war with a neighboring nation but because Israel is a Jewish nation that has been under almost perpetual siege since its birth in 1948. Twenty-one thousand Israelis have lost their lives in wars of self-defense and in acts of terrorism against the Jewish state since 1948.
Since the fall of 2000, Israelis have endured the equivalent of 9/11 almost every other week. I cannot imagine the level of post-traumatic stress symptomatology Israelis must be suffering, they, who have lived through so many unchosen wars of self-defense and whose parents and grandparents endured Hitler's Final Solution, the Gulag, Cossack pogroms, and persecution and exile from Arab and Muslim lands.
The Israeli Toll in American Terms
As I've noted, the slow-bleed of Israelis from 1948-2000 has been barely noted among western intellectuals. "Everybody dies, other people also suffer. Enough with the Jews!" Jewish blood does not register with them, or, rather, Jews are supposed to die; they are not shocked when it happens. In an attempt to awaken such hard-hearted intellectuals, some of whom are, sadly, Jews, I decided to convert the Israeli reality into American terms.
Thus, from 9/29/2000 to 5/12/04, 961 Israelis were murdered by terrorists. This represents 0.015% of the Israeli Jewish, Christian, and Muslim population of six million, four hundred thousand. Based on an American population of approximately 293 million, the Israeli civilian death count is the equivalent of 44, 005 Americans killed by terrorists on our own soil, in pizza parlors, on buses, at Passover sedorim, in our beds.
In addition, between 9/29/2000 and 5/12/04, a total of 6,344 Israelis were wounded by terrorists, often seriously, and for life. This represents .099% of the Israeli population. In American terms, this is the equivalent of approximately 290,000 Americans wounded by terrorists.
Every Israeli personally knows someone, a parent, a child, a spouse, a co-worker, a neighbor, a friend “ who has been killed. Every Israeli personally knows someone who has been wounded for life. Ads for hospital beds and orthopedic devices regularly appear in mainstream newspapers, not in medical journals.
And yet, our "best and brightest" suggest that the Jews are "paranoid" about anti-Semitism, "alarmist," "neurotic," that Hitler killed millions of people who were not Jews ("Why do the Jews go on and on only about themselves as if they are the only victims?"), that the Israelis are now perpetuating a "Holocaust" upon the Palestinians, (another way of saying that "Hitler should have finished the Jews off"), that Israel is a "colonial" state that should be abolished, exterminated, and that this suggestion, which is being made by many progressives and intellectuals, does not necessarily amount to Jew-hatred.
Even Orwell might weep at this.
Meanwhile, as some Jewish American organizations launch major fundraising drives pegged to these latest alarming trends, their leaders hasten to reassure us that Jews in America are relatively safe; that Israel has a strong military, including a nuclear strike capacity. All true.
But if Israel (G-d forbid) ceases to exist, if America is fatefully weakened by the terrorist threat against it, who are we? If the Jews of Israel, Europe, and South America remain at peril, what then? Is it "okay" that we're "okay" in America?
Hillel asked three questions, not just one. Let me remind us of these questions: "If I'm not for myself, who will be for me?" "When I am only for myself, what am I?" "And, if not now, when?"
Many Jewish progressives gloss over Hillel's first question and focus only on his last two questions. Some Jews are often the first to demonize the Jewish state and the Jewish religion in their zeal to institute social justice as if doing so is a substitute for G-d.
Yes, of course Israel has made mistakes; what nation hasn't? But nothing - I repeat, nothing - that Israel has done deserves the savage, obsessive, demonization and terrorism against it. The Israel Defense Forces have behaved with exquisite moral restraint given the enormous provocation against the Jewish state. They have not been congratulated for this but rather condemned.
Call to Action
As I have documented in my book about the new anti-Semitism, anti-Zionism is today's new anti-Semitism.
So, what must we do? We must stand up to The Big Lies. We must take back the campuses. We must forge an alliance with Christian and Republican Americans to fight the war against terrorism and for a safe Israel. And yes, of course, the Israeli government and Jewish organizations and individuals must continue talking with Arab and world leaders.
But my most radical suggestion is a gathering of the twelve tribes. This must be undertaken in the same spirit in which Theodor Herzl convened the first World Zionist Congress. So many Jews who hold passionate and opposing views have simply stopped listening and talking to each other. The silence is more awful than arguments. Many Jews no longer act as if they believe the 'Other' has been created in G-d's image. We must come together in order to strategize about our very survival.
Let me suggest that we consult the Torah for some perspective and guidance. What does the Torah teach us about anti-Semitism?
Early on, we see that G-d accepts Abel's offering but rejects Cain's. Despite G-d's intervention, the heartbroken and enraged Cain kills his brother Abel, whose offering was "chosen" by G-d.
Yaakov favored Yosef, and Yosef's older half-brothers envied, resented, and hated him. Yosef, the absolute apple of his father's eye, the precocious dream-interpreter, the young peacock who struts about in his coat of many colors “ oh how his brothers want him out of the way. Some want to kill him but they settle for selling him into slavery. Divine destiny will have Yosef both rescuing his people from famine and forgiving his brothers.
What happens when one is chosen, not only by one's biological father but by G-d, one's heavenly parent?
One breaks the hearts of all those who have not been chosen and such heartbreak often leads to envy and resentment. Oddly enough, despite the considerable hardship and danger, many people still want to be "the chosen one."
While Jews do not cause Jew-hatred, nor does Israeli policy, we must also quietly consider that our chosenness (or at least our perceived chosenness) does seem to have certain consequences. We are the first People of the Book and are, psychologically and theologically, the Mothers and Fathers of all those who have followed in our monotheistic footsteps. In addition, our Jewish ideas about G-d, mitzvot, justice, ethics, mercy, have indeed gotten us into trouble with all those who wish to worship idols, engage in child sacrifice, and to murder, rape, slander, and steal. The glory of being "chosen" is also a dangerous and difficult burden.
The sages say that Jerusalem is the source of the world's peace and light. When the source of peace is not at peace, the world is sorely troubled too.
May the Israel Defense Forces and the American military endure and prevail. May civilians “ both here and in Israel “ be kept safe from terrorist attacks. May G-d protect and look over us.
Phyllis Chesler, Ph.D, is Emerita Professor of Psychology and the author of twelve books including "The New Anti-Semitism: The Current Crisis and What We Must Do About It."
Jerusalem (CNSNews.com) - An Israeli minister is asking what Palestinian children were doing out in the middle of the street in a war zone, where they could -- and did -- get hurt or killed.
Images of bloodied children being carried away from the scene in the Gaza Strip filled television screens around the world and brought about a swift international condemnation of Israel.
Israel is blamed for attacking Palestinian demonstrators on Wednesday, as hundreds of them marched toward Israeli troops to protest the Israeli army's siege of the Tel Sultan neighborhood of Rafah.
In an effort to deter the demonstrators, an Israeli helicopter fired a missile at an empty field, the army said; and then a tank fired four tank shells toward an empty building in the vicinity.
At least eight protestors died, including children. Israel has said it did not deliberately target the protestors.
Israel entered the southern end of the Gaza Strip early Tuesday in an effort to uproot the terrorist infrastructure and destroy weapons-smuggling tunnels running under the Israeli-Egyptian border into Gaza.
Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat called the incident a "brutal massacre of civilians" and called for international intervention. Palestinians initially reported 23 dead.
President Bush stopped short of demanding that Israel stop its operation in Gaza - now in its third day. But he urged Israel to exercise restraint.
The Israeli army expressed its regrets for the deaths of innocent civilians, but continued to insist there had been armed militants among the demonstrators and that Palestinians had rigged the street with bombs.
The march was not spontaneous but had been organized by the PA itself, the army said.
The incident further tainted Israel's military operation in Gaza, where some 40 Palestinians - most of them militants - have been killed so far in three days of fighting.
Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz expressed his sorrow over the harm done to Palestinian civilians; but he said that despite Wednesday's mishap, the Israeli military operation would continue in Rafah for as long as necessary.
Rafah is a "central pipeline for transferring weapons" to the Gaza Strip, and as such, it endangers Israeli residents and troops, Mofaz said. He said that the incident would be investigated but it was still unclear what had actually happened.
"A war is underway here, one of the most difficult and complicated forms of urban warfare, with terrorists taking advantage of the [civilian] population," he said.
An Israeli government spokesman suggested it was possible that a tank shell had triggered an explosion of a bomb laid by the Palestinians themselves.
Following the incident, the Israeli human rights group B'Tselem backed the Palestinians' right to demonstrate and called on Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Mofaz to order Israeli troops to leave Rafah immediately.
But Israeli government minister Effi Eitam asked what the children were doing out there in the first place.
"There is something so cynical. You need to ask what are little children doing in the street full of bombs in an area where there is shooting, armed men among them. What were they doing there in general? Why weren't they sitting at home?" Eitam asked in a radio interview.
"The cruelty of the Palestinian society, the readiness to commit suicide and to kill children and women - I'm reminded of the Hatuel family...a mother and four children, five people killed at point-blank range," Eitam said.
Tali Hatuel was killed along the Kissufim road two weeks ago by Palestinian gunmen who shot and her car. After it ran off the road the terrorists approached the vehicle and shot Hatuel and her four daughters, the youngest of whom was just two, at close range.
"This society that kills our children without batting an eye is ready to kill its own children without batting an eye and involve its children with armed men on a street full of bombs," Eitam said.
Israeli troops fanned out into a second neighborhood in Rafah on Thursday. Israeli intelligence reports have indicated that there is a large shipment of anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles as well as long-range rockets waiting on the Egyptian side of the border to be transferred through the tunnels into Rafah.
RE: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #58 on: 2004-05-21 03:38:10 »
Joe Dees Sent: 21 May 2004 02:17 AM
[Blunderov] Joe, all this stuff you are posting is useless fluff and I seriously doubt whether anyone is giving it more than a glance. The horse is gone. Too late to shut the stable door now. Give it up. It's a lost cause. Best Regards
[rhinoceros] Erik, you are right of course, but I was talking about "a story", not an argument.
I'll have to spell it out, I guess.
(1) Jonathan replies to the UN condemnation and US reprimanding: "I am glad they are finishing what they started, despite the civilian losses. Otherwise they will simply have to do it all again. This will all be over when they pull out of Gaza as planned."
(2) A similar story by swapping actors would be this: "I am glad they blew up those Israelis in the bus; keep up the good work and all will soon be over."
[Jonathan] This is completely wrong, Rhino. Let me spell it out: I am glad the Israelis are finishing the job of destroying the terrorists lines of supply despite the fact that civilians were accidentally killed (in disputed circumstances) earlier in the operation. I believe the destruction of militants in this operation will save lives in the long run on both sides.
If you needed *truly* reverse the actors you would have to be consistent with principles (unless you deliberately are inverting Israeli and Palestinian values?). Thus, the other sides' view, consistent with Israeli values, would be something like "I am glad our fighters are taking on the Israeli soldiers who are incurring into Gaza, even though some Israeli civilians were accidentally killed by a stray RPG. It will make them think twice about barging in here again and that will save lives on both sides."
The only way you can arrive at your version is if you reverse not just roles, but fighting values (accidental killing of civilians versus deliberate killing of civilians) which is ironically, exactly the situation on the ground.
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