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Topic: Jerusalem Post promotes genocide? (Read 3403 times) |
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simul
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Re: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #15 on: 2004-05-19 10:27:12 » |
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Yep, all killing, except perhaps in immediate self-defense, is terror - regardless of whether is is sanctioned by a government via a regular army.
Another way of putting is is that *both* the Palestinian killers and the Israeli killers are dumbasses.
The only reason anyone even gives a crap about that place is because of its religious significance... which is all so much holy crap.
I find it bizarre that the rational people of this world, which I firmly believer are in the majority, are allowing extremists and religious fanatics, Christian, Jewish and Islamic and otherwise, to cause so much damage.
Perhaps the theory is that they'll just kill each other off...
But the problem is that our world is too interconnected, and these clashes between religious fruitcakes and nutty ideagogues are claiming innocent lives every day.
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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rhinoceros
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Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #16 on: 2004-05-19 10:55:38 » |
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[Jonathan Davies]
We know (and even al-Reuters have photos) of Palestinian gunmen using crowds as cover.
[rhinoceros]
Heh, funny, "Al-Reuters". Well, maybe not so funny.
Is that what it is called in those other forums? I think they do run suicide bomber news feeds too, at least whenever they happen. This is not good enough, is it?
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rhinoceros
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Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #17 on: 2004-05-19 11:42:56 » |
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[simul]
The only reason anyone even gives a crap about that place is because of its religious significance... which is all so much holy crap.
[rhinoceros]
That's not it, Erik. The Israeli army left more than 1,000 people homeless in the last days by boldozing their homes in densely populated Gaza. It is news. Happening now. Not an opinion.
Here is what BBC says. Or is it "Al-BBC" as well?
=====================
Israel launches Gaza offensive
Tuesday, 18 May, 2004, 09:57 GMT 10:57 UK
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3723375.stm
Israeli tanks and bulldozers have been moving into part of the Rafah refugee camp as the army begins a new offensive against Palestinian militants.
Palestinians say overnight 13 people died in missile strikes and fighting.
Thousands of panicking residents have been fleeing, fearing that the Israelis will demolish more homes in the camp.
<snip>
==================
Israel's Gaza mission kills 20
Tuesday, 18 May, 2004, 20:39 GMT 21:39 UK
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3725161.stm
Israeli troops have swept through a Palestinian refugee camp in Gaza while helicopters pounded it with missiles.
At least 20 Palestinians were killed in Rafah camp, including several gunmen and two children hanging out washing.
Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat called it a "massacre", while the UN and EU called on Israel to halt the operation.
US President Bush said the bloodshed was "troubling", but told a Jewish-American audience that Israel had the "right to defend itself from terror".
<snip>
==================
Renewed violence hits Gaza camp
Wednesday, 19 May, 2004, 10:08 GMT 11:08 UK
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3727501.stm
Israeli troops have continued to raid homes in Rafah refugee camp in southern Gaza, confining its 90,000 residents without electricity, water or phones.
Troops killed at least 20 Palestinians on Tuesday, among the highest one-day death tolls in three years of violence.
The army says it is punishing militants and looking for arms-smuggling tunnels. Several more houses were demolished.
International condemnation has mounted against Israel and the US said it is "troubled" and asked for clarification.
<snip>
A 55-year-old resident of Rafah, quoted by Associated Press, said soldiers used two of his cousins as human shields during house-to-house searches.
<snip>
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JD
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RE: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #18 on: 2004-05-19 12:12:39 » |
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
rhinoceros
Sent: 19 May 2004 16:43
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
[simul]
The only reason anyone even gives a crap about that place is because of its
religious significance... which is all so much holy crap.
[rhinoceros]
That's not it, Erik. The Israeli army left more than 1,000 people homeless
in the last days by boldozing their homes in densely populated Gaza. It is
news. Happening now. Not an opinion.
Here is what BBC says. Or is it "Al-BBC" as well?
[Jonathan] Al-BBC, yes yes it fits too. The BBC has been pilloried recently
for its open biases.
As for the demolitions, Israel is clearing a buffer zone. Ugly to be sure,
but necessary. They have bulldozed many Jewish settlements too when they
needed to go.
A restrained Israel get denounced and bombed. An assertive Israel gets
denounced and fewer bombs. I can fully understand their actions.
Regards
Jonathan
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Blunderov
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"We think in generalities, we live in details"
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RE: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #19 on: 2004-05-19 12:18:18 » |
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Mermaid
Sent: 19 May 2004 10:17 AM
I dont think there is anything wrong in being 'anti semitic' against israel
when it comes to its current appalling behaviour. Anyone with me?
----
[Blunderov] I'm all for imposing a travel ban on Israeli government
officials and their families as was done to Mugabe. It apparently infuriated
him more than any other sanction that was taken against him by the
commonwealth, or so I heard. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the
gander.
Apparently Bush the Lesser finds recent events in Gaza 'troubling'.
One pictures the great leader furrowing his brow in consternation. 'These
WMD are very troubling' one imagines him saying to the nation upon due
consideration. 'Very troubling'.
But he is not alone. We, or some us, in SA used to refer to full scale riots
as 'the troubles'. I think the phrase was widely employed in N. Ireland as
well.
'Bad luck and trouble everyday' Bill?
Best Regards
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simul
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Re: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #21 on: 2004-05-19 13:17:46 » |
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No, I mean why the hell would anyone live there? Jews, Palestinians or otherwise.
It's clearly a crappy place to live... what with all the bullets flying.
It's not like anyone's chaining these people to the land.
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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DrSebby
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...Oh, you smell of lambs!
    
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Re: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #22 on: 2004-05-19 15:11:05 » |
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....i once asked an open-minded israeli gal a big 'what-if': what would
happen if the usa carved new jersey out and gave it to israel...how many
israelis would have no problem leaving the "holy land" and moving to a
peaceful nice piece of property? she estimated that about 75-80% would be
more than happy to move out of the hell-zone they currently live in.
interesting.
DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Erik Aronesty" <erik@zoneedit.com>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: "Church of Virus" <virus@lucifer.com>
Subject: Re: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:17:46 -0400
No, I mean why the hell would anyone live there? Jews, Palestinians or
otherwise.
It's clearly a crappy place to live... what with all the bullets flying.
It's not like anyone's chaining these people to the land.
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"courage and shuffle the cards..."
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rhinoceros
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Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #23 on: 2004-05-19 17:29:31 » |
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[DrSebby]
....i once asked an open-minded israeli gal a big 'what-if': what would happen if the usa carved new jersey out and gave it to israel...how many israelis would have no problem leaving the "holy land" and moving to a peaceful nice piece of property? she estimated that about 75-80% would be more than happy to move out of the hell-zone they currently live in. interesting.
[rhinoceros]
I guess her home was already in the USA, but this is not such a bad idea.
Crap... why didn't anyone think of it back in 1948. Real estate was much cheaper and I bet that more than 81% would have been happy to move to New Jersey.
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simul
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Re: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #24 on: 2004-05-19 18:33:35 » |
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Ask a different question:
Given free plane tickets, expedited immigration, job training and subsidised housing... Would they come?
If you know a way to contact 1000 israelis and 1000 palestinians, you could probably do a nice statistical study... And get the funding to back up the move if it comes out ok.
Reduced population will reduce strife...
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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Blunderov
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"We think in generalities, we live in details"
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RE: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #25 on: 2004-05-19 18:45:39 » |
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[Mermaid]
Sent: 19 May 2004 10:17 AM
I dont think there is anything wrong in being 'anti semitic' against israel
when it comes to its current appalling behaviour. Anyone with me?
----
[Blunderov] In view of what has just happened its hard not to agree
This is truly terrible.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004231101,00.html
Israelis massacre kids
TEN Palestinian children and teens were today killed and 50 others wounded
as Israeli forces fired a missile and four tank shells at a crowd of
demonstrators.
The Israeli military said it fired towards an abandoned structure, not the
crowd, but witnesses said they saw at least one large explosion go off
within the crowd of protestors.
Palestinians rushed the wounded - mostly children with bloodied faces and
limbs - away from the scene.
The injured were evacuated by ambulance, private cars and donkey carts to
the Rafah hospital.
The hospital stairs and floors were drenched in blood and staff treated the
wounded on the floors after running out of beds.
Dr Moawiya Hassanain, a senior Palestinian Health Ministry official, said
that of the wounded, 23 were in critical and 13 in "hopeless" condition.
The majority of protestors were under 18 and this was reflected in the
casualty figures.
The death toll is expected to rise.
It appeared likely that Israel would break off its large military offensive
in the Rafah refugee camp as a result of today's strike.
The offensive - which has drawn widespread international condemnation - was
planned to last for more than a week.
Israel claimed the attack was necessary to root out gunmen and
weapons-smuggling tunnels.
Prime Minister Tony Blair today said the Israeli military's actions in Gaza
yesterday were "unacceptable and wrong".
The United Nations and European Union has already demanded a halt to the
invasion.
The Bush administration said it was very concerned about today's incident
and called for "maximum restraint".
Palestinian officials accused Israel of having committed a war crime.
"This is a terrorist massacre and a terrorist war crime," Palestinian
Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath said.
He said the Palestinians were considering bringing their grievances before
an international tribunal
The incident began this afternoon when several thousand Palestinians marched
from the town of Rafah to the targeted refugee camp of the same name.
Brig Gen Ruth Yaron, the Israeli army spokeswoman, said that forces fired
warning shots - first a missile from a helicopter that hit an empty area,
followed by machine gun fire and four tank shells towards an abandoned
structure.
"At this stage, it's possible, that's our assessment, that there were
casualties as a result of the tank shells that were fired."
Television footage showed the crowd marching along a wide street when an
explosion went off in their midst, with white smoke rising into the air.
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JD
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RE: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #27 on: 2004-05-19 19:14:37 » |
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Talk about missed opportunities! :-)
I do recall though that the Israelis explored this sort of thing back in the
eighties (at least fictional Israelis). Anyone remember Little Drummer Girl?
The scene where Klaus Kinski (Kurtz - how I love that character name) turns
Charlie into a Mossad agent?
Regards
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
rhinoceros
Sent: 19 May 2004 22:30
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
[DrSebby]
....i once asked an open-minded israeli gal a big 'what-if': what would
happen if the usa carved new jersey out and gave it to israel...how many
israelis would have no problem leaving the "holy land" and moving to a
peaceful nice piece of property? she estimated that about 75-80% would be
more than happy to move out of the hell-zone they currently live in.
interesting.
[rhinoceros]
I guess her home was already in the USA, but this is not such a bad idea.
Crap... why didn't anyone think of it back in 1948. Real estate was much
cheaper and I bet that more than 81% would have been happy to move to New
Jersey.
----
This message was posted by rhinoceros to the Virus 2004 board on Church of
Virus BBS.
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=303
03>
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JD
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RE: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #28 on: 2004-05-19 19:32:57 » |
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Hi B,
This is a at worst a dreadful - and extremely rare - mistake by the IDF. If
this were an attack by the other side, they would have deliberately targeted
the civilians.
Am I alone in seeing this important point? Can someone please link to any
Sun articles about "Palestinians massacre kids" as they did last month by
rifle but normally do by bomb?
What is truly terrible is the deliberate slaughter of innocents. This
however is a tragic accident of war.
Finally, can I say that those who accuse people who object to Israeli
actions as anti-Semitic are taking cheap shot. Just like opposition to a
war does not automatically make one an appeaser or a pacifist.
Son please do not legitimise anti-Semitism - a form of bigotry equal to
racism - by implying it is ever justified by the actions of the state of
Israel. Anti-Semitism refers to Jews everywhere. Opposition to Israel refers
to the actions of the government of Israel. Lets keep these separate in the
interests of accuracy and fairness.
Regards
Jonathan
P.S. The skeptic in me wonders if the same people who blow up mosques and
Iraqi schoolchildren might not have decided to sacrifice a few Palestinian
children in the interests of propaganda. I will wait for the dust to settle
before I believe anything (least of all The Sun's reports) especially after
the so called Jenin Massacre, also widely condemned and hysterically
denounced, turned out never to have happened.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Blunderov
Sent: 19 May 2004 23:46
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: RE: virus: Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
[Mermaid]
Sent: 19 May 2004 10:17 AM
I dont think there is anything wrong in being 'anti semitic' against israel
when it comes to its current appalling behaviour. Anyone with me?
----
[Blunderov] In view of what has just happened its hard not to agree This is
truly terrible.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004231101,00.html
Israelis massacre kids
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rhinoceros
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Re:Jerusalem Post promotes genocide?
« Reply #29 on: 2004-05-19 20:32:14 » |
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[Blunderov]
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004231101,00.html
TEN Palestinian children and teens were today killed and 50 others wounded as Israeli forces fired a missile and four tank shells at a crowd of demonstrators.
<snip>
The majority of protestors were under 18 and this was reflected in the casualty figures. The death toll is expected to rise.
<snip>
"At this stage, it's possible, that's our assessment, that there were casualties as a result of the tank shells that were fired."
Television footage showed the crowd marching along a wide street when an explosion went off in their midst, with white smoke rising into the air.
[Joe Dees]
Considering the continuing behavior of the Palestinians, then, to be logically consistent, you must expand your antisemitism to include them.
A pox on both their houses is logically consistent, as is a pox on neither, but condemning one side for their response to attacks and failing to condemn the other side for the atacks that provoke the responses is inellectually dishonest, however emotionally satisfying to one's own biases and prejudices it might be.
[rhinoceros]
Joe, are you role-playing? I hope you are. It would be a very sad sight otherwise.
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