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simul
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Re: Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #15 on: 2004-05-27 19:03:28 »
Reply with quote

Organizations that survive the loss of their leader do so because the leader was careful to make sure he wasn't necessary.  This process usually makes the leader, and the organizaton, more and more popular.

The simplest way to do this is to start with an elected “board” and “chair”.

Example:

We can say that the top 5 members by reputation are the board and the #1 member is the chair.

The board makes all decisions by majority vote.  Any member of the board can propose a decision.  The chair can veto a decision, and organizes board meetings so that everyone on the board has an equal say.  The chair is the “ostensible head” of the organization.

Decisions can include policy changes, website software updates, etc.  The chair, with veto power, ultimately decides which sorts of decisions are within thwe realm of the board.


-----Original Message-----
From: "Dr Sebby" <drsebby@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 10:12:26
To:virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: Re:virus: Joe's complaint

....Sean, regardless of how much you hate Joe's positions...we've had to
learn over a long period of time, that flame wars are very detrimental,
wasteful, and have never produced anything other than resentment, lots of
wasted time mediating, and loss of freedom here on the CoV.  since we are
small, with a benevolent and wise dictator (Lucifer), it is relatively easy
to recover quickly and completely...but one day this may not be the case.

....case in point:  a guy riding the bus with the window open, enjoying the
fresh air.  he sees someone that wronged him severely and hurls a bottle out
the window which hits his target on the head, and severely injures him. 
result:

1.  he gets a satisfying revenge
2.  target sues bus company
3.  350,000,000 people never get to enjoy a bus ride with an open window, a
cool breeze, and feeling close to the world which he sees pass in front of
him....ever again!

....thankfully we have no litigious lawyers operating within the CoV, so
freedoms arent so easily taken away.  but the b.s. that results from such
situations inclines many here to contemplate previously unknown
restrictions.  this personal rage on your part which you mix with the CoV
bandwidth, affects all of us.  so if you must call Joe or anyone a "fucker"
more than once or twice, or make fun of his mother(the revered hermit did it
already for some reason, but at least he knew joe for quite some time...and
joe bit the bait a bit too hard), do it via private email.

...above your potential frustration or hatred for someone or some
idea....keep your love for the CoV in a place above it.  if you cant, then I
would see THAT as a reason for a temporary ban.



DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".





----Original Message Follows----
From: Sean Kenny <seankenny@blueyonder.co.uk>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: Re:virus: Joe's complaint
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 07:40:56 +0100

On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 02:00, Joe Dees wrote:
> (Joe) Some examples of Irvken's subtle and scintillating commentary
concerning me and my posts, from the most recent back, follow:

Yes Joe, these are personal attacks, and meant,  you fucking quisling.
There are no soldiers on your streets shooting dead your kids. Moderate
away, I probably don't have the time to argue with a shit like you (and
your corporate sponsors) anyway, but I can keep up the insults till I'm
banned

TTFN

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Re: Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #16 on: 2004-05-28 10:25:42 »
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Erik Aronesty" <erik@zoneedit.com>

> We can say that the top 5 members by reputation are the board and the #1
member is the chair.

aka the Virian Council
http://virus.lucifer.com/wiki/VirianCouncil

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Re: Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #17 on: 2004-05-28 10:32:00 »
Reply with quote

To be fair I have to silence (ban) you for a week for this personal attack.

I don't have time to put a technical ban in place now so please refrain from
posting to the list or BBS until June 4.

David

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Kenny" <seankenny@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <virus@lucifer.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: Re:virus: Joe's complaint


> On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 02:00, Joe Dees wrote:
> > (Joe) Some examples of Irvken's subtle and scintillating commentary
concerning me and my posts, from the most recent back, follow:
>
> Yes Joe, these are personal attacks, and meant,  you fucking quisling.
> There are no soldiers on your streets shooting dead your kids. Moderate
> away, I probably don't have the time to argue with a shit like you (and
> your corporate sponsors) anyway, but I can keep up the insults till I'm
> banned
>
> TTFN
>
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Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #18 on: 2004-05-29 03:24:52 »
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Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #19 on: 2004-05-31 17:58:53 »
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...Joe, dont get me wrong...i am NOT a partisan person or voter.  if given
a free choice i would elect any of the following:  Howard Dean(D), Mr.
Forbes(R), Wesley Clarke(R), maybe Bob Dole(R) and maybe John McCain(R).

...given this truthful statement, i reitterate that of any president past or
present, i have a unique opinion about george w. :  he is as crooked as
crooked gets.  i think his policies are 100% devoted to his corporate
buddies, his family dynasty, and the families of his wealthy friends.  if
there are ANY americans he actually cares about, they are those similar to
himself....rightwing xtian republicans who are well to do, have money,
family and privelege.  while previous presidents surely pandered to these
interests as well, bush's devotion to these groups is about 10 fold more
than the next worst president in our recent history.  i have ZERO trust in
him.  not just because he has said "god spoke to me and told me that i must
run for president", but because he lacks the character, the intelligence,
the wisdom and the empathic understanding to be a leader.

...i consider him a murderer, a theif, a traitor, and a cad.  he is NOT a
self-made man, he is the spoiled, less than bright, offspring of a
holier-than-thou family and good-ol' boys club.  even amongst evil
candidates he stands head and shoulders above the rest.  i could name
dozens of republican candidates which would make fine presidents....he's not
even in the top 40 million i would wager.



DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".





----Original Message Follows----
From: "Joe Dees" <hidden@lucifer.com>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re:virus: Joe's complaint
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:06:57 -0600

First, to Sebby:

I have several times in this forum declared that I would not be voting for
Bush unless Al Qaeda tries to pull a Spanish Dhimmitude on us by engaging in
a mass domestic attack just prior to the US election.  The reaons I have
given are that I am a social liberal, a fiscal conservative and a foreign
policy realist, while I see Bush as also a foreign policy realist, but his
socially conservative and fiscally irresponsible positions are politically
unacceptable to me.  Hardly agreeing with Bush on everything; in fact, only
agreeing with him on one thing, the necessity to proactively pursue the war
on terrorists.

Rhino: Your position seems to be approaching the one that the execrable
Hermit formerly proposed; to morph this site from one in which these issues
can be fairly and honestly debated into just another anti-Bush hate site
like Smirking Chimp.  This would, of course, mean that the CoV would devolve
from a forum that studies memes into just another memetically infected site.
  Is this what you truly desire?  If so, why?  And why should even the
assertion here of a differing position to be met, not with reasoned debate,
but with censure?  Is it because Jonathan is correct, and the opposition to
such a position is logically, evidentially and intellectually bankrupt, and
motivated solely by a surfeit of irrational emotion, and furthermore,
becomes incensed when this inconvenient fact is pointed out?
And I post other things besides politics here for the same reason that I
post politics, and for the same reason, I suspect, that you also post both
politics and other things; a judgment that they are interesting and
informative.  Of course, some people would prefer (to the point of major
upset) that other people, or even themselves, not be made aware of some of
the information that I reference, when that information clashes with their
ideologically-driven memetic filters; this fact says more about them than it
says about the references I post.

As far as Carlita goes, the liberal press is no myth.  Once again, an
extreme, rather than mainstream, source is quoted (Robert Parry of
Consortium News) to 'prove' such an assertion.  Of course, for extremists,
all other positions must be seen as extreme themselves, and motivated by
stupidity, ignorance, or malevolence, as a self-concept-preserving memetic
necessity.
I, not being extreme, prefer to reference a mainstream source such as the
prestigious Pew Research Center survey, quoted in the admittedly liberal
Editor & Publisher:

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000517184

Pew Survey Finds Moderates, Liberals Dominate News Outlets
By E&P Staff

Published: May 23, 2004 4:00 PM EST
NEW YORK Those convinced that liberals make up a disproportionate share of
newsroom workers have long relied on Pew Research Center surveys to confirm
this view, and they will not be disappointed by the results of Pew's latest
study released today.

While most of the journalists, like many Americans, describe themselves as
"moderate," a far higher number are "liberal" than in the general
population.

At national organizations (which includes print, TV and radio), the numbers
break down like this: 34% liberal, 7% conservative. At local outlets: 23%
liberal, 12% conservative. At Web sites: 27% call themselves liberals, 13%
conservatives.

This contrasts with the self-assessment of the general public: 20% liberal,
33% conservative.

The survey of 547 media professionals, completed this spring, is part of an
important study released today by The Project for Excellence in Journalism
and The Committee of Concerned Journalists, which mainly concerns more
general issues related to newsrooms (an E&P summary will appear Monday).

While it's important to remember that most journalists in this survey
continue to call themselves moderate, the ranks of self-described liberals
have grown in recent years, according to Pew. For example, since 1995, Pew
found at national outlets that the liberal segment has climbed from 22% to
34% while conservatives have only inched up from 5% to 7%.

The survey also revealed what some are sure to label a "values" gap.
According to Pew, about 60% of the general public believes it is necessary
to believe in God to be a truly moral person. The new survey finds that less
than 15% of those who work at news outlets believe that. About half the
general public believes homosexuality should be accepted by society -- but
about 80% of journalists feel that way.

When the question of which news organizations actually tilted left or right,
there was one clear candidate: Fox News. Fully 69% of national journalists,
and 42% of those at the local level, called Fox News "especially
conservative." Next up was The New York Times, which about one in five
labeled "especially liberal."

Not surprisingly, views of how the press has treated President Bush break
down along partisan lines. More than two out of three liberals feel the
press has not been tough enough on Bush, while half the conservatives feel
the media has been too tough.

Still, a little over half of national journalists (53%) give national media
coverage of the administration an A or B rating.

While the sample of 547 interviewees is not large, Pew says that this
selection represents "a cross-section of news organizations and of the
people working at all levels of those organizations." Newspapers were
identified and circulation ranked using the 2003 Editor & Publisher
International Year Book.

In an essay accompanying the survey, the directors of the sponsoring groups
-- Bill Kovach, Tom Rosenstiel and Amy Mitchell --declare that broad
conclusions about the political findings should be tempered by analyzing
some of the details in the findings. For example, they identify strong
"libertarian" leanings among journalists, including doubts about the role of
"big government."
As to the typically Hermitian epithets and those of his Irvkenian minion,
nothing need be said.  They reveal their authors' character - or lack of
same - so clearly that any explication by me would be redundant.

Of course such people will blame all the murdered in Iraq not upon their
murderer Saddam, but upon the US, the UN, Bush, anyone but the actual
Pol-Pot-ranked despot who perpetrated them, in keeping with their principle
that if the US does something bad, it is actually much, much worse, while if
someone else does something bad, it is actually the US that did it, the same
biased and hatred-based nonlogic that also occurs with tinfoil-hat moonbat
conspiracy theories that the US perpetrated 9/11, ragardless of Bin Ladin's
videotaped admission, and that the madly prancing, Allahu-Ackbar ululating
band that haggled through Nick bergs necs were US black ops.

These people will also see the US as destroying the credibility of the UN,
rather than the fact that this has been done by the narrowly self-interested
and oil-contract-bought votes of France and Germany, and the Oil-for-Food
kickback bribery of high UN officials.  In fact, by enforcing the UN
resolutions in Iraq, the US has maintained that organization's global
credibility in spite of itself.

As to the Palestinians, Arafat is the person whom eveb Clinton blamed for
the collapse of talks, when he was offered practically everything he asked
for, and still refused.  It is interesting to note that, when Jordan held
the West Bank and Egypt held the gaza strip, this fact did not prevent
genocidal war from being waged against Israel, nor were the palestinians
asking for their own country then.  Since the surrounding Muslim countries
could not defeat Israeli soldiers from the outside in a military conquest,
they have opted for an internal insurgency, cynically using the Palestinians
as brainwashed suicide-bombing pawns to attack Israeli civilians from the
inside, in a guerilla jihad insurgency.  However, the splodeydope attacks
are diminishing as a result of the decapitation of the Palestinian terror
networks and the quarantining of the memetically miasmic swamps from which
such shaheeds issue.

I also note the convenient omission of the hermitic and metahuman/demon
posts to which my replys posted were responses, but the infamous 'slimed
screen' post is all too sadly typical of them, and of the total lack
whatsoever of any standards or decorum in the part of their authors.



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Virus BBS.
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Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #20 on: 2004-05-31 21:25:37 »
Reply with quote



> [Original Message]
> From: Dr Sebby <drsebby@hotmail.com>
> To: <virus@lucifer.com>
> Date: 05/31/2004 2:58:53 PM
> Subject: Re:virus: Joe's complaint
>
> ...Joe, dont get me wrong...i am NOT a partisan person or voter.  if
given
> a free choice i would elect any of the following:  Howard Dean(D), Mr.
> Forbes(R), Wesley Clarke(R), maybe Bob Dole(R) and maybe John McCain(R).
>
>snip<

Just for the record, Wesley Clark is a Democrat.  I also voted for him,
donated money to his campaign, and went up to McAlester Oklahoma to work
for his campaign in that primary (which he won).  He's still a Democrat
last time I checked. 

love,

-Jake

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Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #21 on: 2004-05-31 19:52:23 »
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Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #22 on: 2004-05-31 21:40:08 »
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Are all of us evil liberals who plan on voting for John Kerry really just a bunch of kowtowing cowards who are capitulating to the demands of the terrorists?  Does anyone honestly believe that, when John Kerry is president, he’ll just bend over and drop his pants for the terrorists?
    As a human animal, Mr. Dees, you undoubtedly possess a prefrontal cortex—but if you only use it sporadically, it may very well atrophy.
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Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #23 on: 2004-05-31 22:38:15 »
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Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #24 on: 2004-05-31 23:43:08 »
Reply with quote

....i think the notion amongst bush-haters is that HE IS the reason
terrorist attacks occur or are 'allowed' to occur and persist.  what do the
islamic nuts want?  they want us out of their stupid 'holy' land, and a
couple other things that are no interest to the common folk of this country.
everyone knows that we could be a non-dependant if we wanted to
(oil-wise)...and things would be fine.  it's Bush that wants to be in
there...and others pay the price for his little games with religious
shitheads.


DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".





----Original Message Follows----
From: "Joe Dees" <hidden@lucifer.com>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re:virus: Joe's complaint
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:52:23 -0600

The Democrat for whom I would've liked to vote is Lieberman.  He, alone
among the Democrats, actually 'got ot' concerning the necessity to
aggressively and proactively pursie a war on terrorists, and I far prefer
his fiscal and domestic policies to Bush's, which, quite frankly, stink on
dry ice.
I will not vote for Bush unless there is a pre-election Al Qaeda terror
attack on US soil; then I will swallow hard and vote for the man Al Qaeda
does not want in office (Bush) over the man they DO want in office (Kerry). 
If they are willing to kill masses of Americans in order to coerce the
cowards among us into cowering dhimmitude, well, I refuse to be one of those
kowtowing cowards...
I know that it doesn't matter to the Bush-haters out there; they would
probably vote for Bin Ladin himself if that was their only choice, rather
than the choice they WILL have, between the candidate Al Qaeda wants and the
candidate Al Qaeda fears.

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Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #25 on: 2004-06-01 00:08:44 »
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Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #26 on: 2004-06-01 02:34:45 »
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I know this probably goes without saying, but most of us liberals aren’t against all war.  I for one was wholeheartedly in favor of the war in Afghanistan—but vehemently opposed to the Bush administration’s rationalizing of the war in Iraq as part of the “War on Terror.”
    I am, however, a firm believer in the efficacy of violence.  After all, the only reason Ghandi’s satyagraha, or passive resistance, worked with Great Britain is that the British view themselves as a civilized people—and they want the rest of the world to share that view.  On the other hand, the Islamic fundamentalists whom we’re currently at war with—like all fundamentalists—really don’t give a damn how the rest of the world views them, as long as they think they’re doing their god’s work.
    And, regarding the sissification of America, it’s not just the bin Ladens of the world who view Americans as a bunch of weaklings—a lot of the world views us as weak . . . and it annoys the hell out of me that they can easily justify their view of Americans as a bit too squeamish, since, for example, millions of Americans don’t want to see—or even hear about—things that are as disturbing as the Nick Berg beheading, the uncensored photos of Iraqi prisoner abuse, and the like.
    But adults should be able to handle raw reality, without any kind of censorship or bastardization of the truth.  And that includes the most appalling and disturbing things that are going on in Iraq and elsewhere.
    Who knows?  Maybe if more people knew just how appalling and disturbing some of the things are that happen during wartime, they wouldn’t be so goddamn quick to bang on the war drums with their Cheerleader in Chief.

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Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #27 on: 2004-06-01 03:08:56 »
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Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #28 on: 2004-06-01 06:43:08 »
Reply with quote

...Joe, how can we fight an idea?  with guns?  the islamic crazies will not
stop.  our best bet was to slowly erode their nuttiness with the capitalist
temptations and principles...though admittedly shallow, a far sight better
than suicide and killing.

...can you name one force that has successfully suppressed
terrorism/guerilla warfare?



DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".





----Original Message Follows----
From: "Joe Dees" <hidden@lucifer.com>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re:virus: Joe's complaint
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 01:08:56 -0600

      I have seen the pictures at Abu Ghraib, both the recent ones and the
surpassingly more brutal pictures taken during Saddam's reign.  I have also
seen the Nick Berg beheading - as have many Americans who are computer
connected.  My resolve has been steeled, not weakened; for the sake of
civilized society, we MUST NOT allow these kinds of people to perdure and to
impose their wills upon what they aspire to; a global Caliphate Ummah. 
Remember that India and Southeast Asia were willing to leave them alone, but
they immigrated, and conquered, and subjugated, in waves of violence and
fanaticism.  This has been their history, and we cannot , for our own sakes,
and for the sakes of those yet to come, allow the same pattern to continue. 
These Wahhab/Qutb zealots believe in two worlds; the Dar-al-Islam (World of
Islam), and the Dar-al Harb (World of War).  We are presently showing them
that, contrary to this belief, they cannot hope to launch attacks upon the
rest of the world !
from their Middle Eastern base (Al Qaeda translates as The Base), while
enjoying the peace of dictatorial domination at home.  We must be the Strong
Horse who is by necessity backed by those who wager their lives, families
and futures in the region.
      Our position in Iraq is foursquare in the middle of the terrorist
region, surrounded by Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia.  If there is indeed a
Grand Plan to rid the world of the rule of these despots, Syria (and
Lebanon) will be next; then, using the Mediterranean ports which would be
secured upon their fall, our then easily transported and resupplied troops
would march east through Iran (with Afghanistan providing a backstop), and
perhaps, if necessary, south through Saudi Arabia.  Democratization would
follow regime change, and, once Syria and Iran were out of the equation,
there would be no further bordering nations from which significant numbers
of Jihadis could flow.
      But make no mistake; this is a global struggle, against a global enemy
that has chosen us as an enemy, and thus given us no choice but to succumb
or respond.  It will take many years for it to end.  We cannot allow our
will to be sapped by time or difficulty, for this is the only disaster that
could conceivably defeat us.

----
This message was posted by Joe Dees to the Virus 2004 board on Church of
Virus BBS.
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=30377>
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"courage and shuffle the cards..."
Joe Dees
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Re:virus: Joe's complaint
« Reply #29 on: 2004-06-01 07:32:31 »
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« Last Edit: 2004-06-01 07:41:07 by Joe Dees » Report to moderator   Logged
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