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  virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
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   Author  Topic: virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon  (Read 3682 times)
Walter Watts
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Re: virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #15 on: 2004-05-21 14:16:18 »
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Mermaid,

These are VERY grown folks here. No one is responsible for anyone elses actions except their own.

Repectfully,

Walter



Mermaid wrote:

> dude...YOU are solely responsible for dees' return here...please take charge(nobody else is going to touch JD with a ten foot barge pool)..control him or your credibility will go for a toss here in CoV..i am sure i am speaking for the majority of the members when i say that...no offence meant...please..
>
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"Pursue the small utopias... nature, music, friendship, love"
--Kupferberg--


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Joe Dees
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Re:virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #16 on: 2004-05-21 16:20:22 »
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Joe Dees
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Re:virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #17 on: 2004-05-21 16:35:31 »
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rhinoceros
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Re:virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #18 on: 2004-05-21 17:38:39 »
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[Joe Dees]
I have been posting a lot of articles lately, and will curtail this practice, although I will not end it altogether, as it is sometimes necessary to balance an article posted by another CoV member.


[rhinoceros]
It seems obvious (at least to me) that an article appearing in our mailboxes does not necessarily balance anything. First, it will have to be read, and second, it will have to convince. It may well bring the opposite effect if it is perceived as part of a childish practice, same as pulling one's sleeve or persistently putting something in front of their face.

A questions is "how do you know?" Well, you don't. Some people are more skilled than others at reading clues, but the end result is always there.

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Blunderov
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RE: virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #19 on: 2004-05-21 17:53:21 »
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Joe Dees
Sent: 21 May 2004 10:36 PM
<snip>
The problem that I am having is that I am still neither receiving Cov emails
in my inbox, nor am I able to mail them from my email to the CoV; thus, when
topics appear on the Virus 2004 section of the BBS, I must go there to reply
to them, in the thread in which they appear (usually directly under the
message, if possible.  Since I do not receive CoV emails, I cannot hit
'reply' and send my response along with the original post to which I am
responding; this means that context is lost for those of the CoV who check
their emails bit do not read the Virus 2004 section of the BBS.

The solution to this, of course, is to restore my ability to send emails to
and receive emails from the CoV.

I have been posting a lot of articles lately, and will curtail this
practice, although I will not end it altogether, as it is sometimes
necessary to balance an article posted by another CoV member.
<snip>

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[Blunderov] Spoken like a scholar and a gentleman. I hope your e-mail can be
restored.
Best Regards


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Re: virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #20 on: 2004-05-22 05:27:34 »
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Quote from: Walter Watts on 2004-05-21 14:16:18   

Mermaid,

These are VERY grown folks here. No one is responsible for anyone elses actions except their own.

Repectfully,

Walter


Walter, I agree with what you are saying. Noone is responsible for anyone else's action, but Limbic is responsible for Joe Dees' return. I believe that it is fair for this audience to expect him to rein in JD in as he argued for his presence. You know, if I could do it(without killing myself or arguing to death), I'd do it. I cant. Nobody could. Thats why Joe Dees was asked to leave in the first place, remember?

Joe Dees: wtf do you mean by 'balance'? Since you dont receive emails anyways, why not take the iraq talk to its alloted place...that is..someplace...other than the virus bbs section.
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RE: virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #21 on: 2004-05-22 06:21:29 »
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Dear Mermaid,

Yes,  I supported (and still do wholeheartedly) Joe being normalised here. I
reject the notion that that implied he was subjecting himself to my control
or that he needs to be reigned in. I love the man and his writing hence my
recent encouragement for more Joe content and less forwarded opinion.

TO MERMAIDS MASTER: I would like to have a word with you about your
protégé's education & manners. Can you reign her in? When can we talk
urgently? Contact me on the usual Masters' frequency.

Kind regards

Jonathan


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Mermaid
Sent: 22 May 2004 10:28
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon


[quote from: Walter on 2004-05-21 at 12:16:18] Mermaid,

These are VERY grown folks here. No one is responsible for anyone elses
actions except their own.

Repectfully,

Walter



Walter, I agree with what you are saying. Noone is responsible for anyone
else's action, but Limbic is responsible for Joe Dees' return. I believe
that it is fair for this audience to expect him to rein in JD in as he
argued for his presence. You know, if I could do it(without killing myself
or arguing to death), I'd do it. I cant. Nobody could. Thats why Joe Dees
was asked to leave in the first place, remember?

Joe Dees: wtf do you mean by 'balance'? Since you dont receive emails
anyways, why not take the iraq talk to its alloted place...that
is..someplace...other than the virus bbs section.

----
This message was posted by Mermaid to the Virus 2004 board on Church of
Virus BBS.
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=303
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #22 on: 2004-05-22 06:28:27 »
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Mermaid
Sent: 22 May 2004 11:28 AM


Walter, I agree with what you are saying. Noone is responsible for anyone
else's action, but Limbic is responsible for Joe Dees' return. I believe
that it is fair for this audience to expect him to rein in JD in as he
argued for his presence. You know, if I could do it(without killing myself
or arguing to death), I'd do it. I cant. Nobody could. Thats why Joe Dees
was asked to leave in the first place, remember?

Joe Dees: wtf do you mean by 'balance'? Since you dont receive emails
anyways, why not take the iraq talk to its alloted place...that
is..someplace...other than the virus bbs section.

----
[Blunderov] Just to be clear; it was I who invited Joe back. And it is
probably fair to say that it was I who initiated many, if not most, of the
recent threads concerning Iraq.

Joe has undertaken not to flood the list. I don't think that this should
mean he shouldn't be allowed to post anything at all. And even if he is a
heretic, he is our own resident heretic, and I think he should have normal
e-mail facilities.

Best Regards


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RE: virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #23 on: 2004-05-22 06:37:36 »
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Quote from: Jonathan Davis on 2004-05-22 06:21:29   

Dear Mermaid,

Yes,  I supported (and still do wholeheartedly) Joe being normalised here. I
reject the notion that that implied he was subjecting himself to my control
or that he needs to be reigned in. I love the man and his writing hence my
recent encouragement for more Joe content and less forwarded opinion.

TO MERMAIDS MASTER: I would like to have a word with you about your
protégé's education & manners. Can you reign her in? When can we talk
urgently? Contact me on the usual Masters' frequency.

Kind regards

Jonathan



ok..WHAT writing? its just fucking cut and paste..and all in the same vein...we have been through this before...ok...forget about what i said and demand of you...but...dont you feel a tad responsible for inflicting joe dees and his screeds upon us again? i guess not...

my master's gone running to the hills...wanna a piece of me?
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RE: virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #24 on: 2004-05-22 07:07:47 »
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[Blunderov] Spoken like a scholar and a gentleman. I hope your e-mail can be
restored.

Do you have ANY idea how many times we have been promised flood control...when you proposed his return to cov(he was never banned..he chose to leave because he was admonished), you didnt know the full story(or so i am assuming)...you have NO idea how much grief this community had to bear..how many friendships strained...how much bandwidth eaten up....because of Joe Dees' ability to lie through his teeth re his flooding restraint..his faithful 'fellow fighter' is always limbic..fine, you didnt know that the first time..i recall someone protesting, but it died down a quick defensive death...joe dees is on probation...for a reason...and a damn fucking good reason...everyone else here is probably too nice and polite to tell you that..not me...well..now, you do...with all due respect, blunderov(really, i do respect you), there is nothing scholarly or gentlemanly about joe dees' repeating his previous obsession...do we have to take a fucking poll to find out how much we, as a group, detest joe dees' ramblings...you dont have to take my word for it...you must have seen the proof for yourself...the same pattern of list abuse....i request you to join the majority of the group in asking joe dees to stop flooding our inboxes...you are free to take sides..but responsibility ALWAYS goes with the decisions we make...i am speaking out of frustration..not that i have anything against you...or that i wish to be rude...
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RE: virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #25 on: 2004-05-22 07:21:40 »
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[Blunderov] Just to be clear; it was I who invited Joe back. And it is
probably fair to say that it was I who initiated many, if not most, of the
recent threads concerning Iraq.

[Mermaid]Oh..I KNOW that you invited Joe back...

[Blunderov]Joe has undertaken not to flood the list.

[Mermaid]As he has done many..MANY..MANY..times before..and failed to keep up his promise...reputation, as you know, is *everything*..

[Blunderov]I don't think that this should mean he shouldn't be allowed to post anything at all.

[Mermaid]Huh? Did I say that he shouldnt post anything at all..i dont even mind that he posts articles without comment..irritating..but hey! to each his own...god knows that i have 'flooded' the list many times in the past...but its the frequency of the posts and the same old destructive pattern he is displaying...if you go back to the list activities immediately after 9/11, you'd understand why Joe Dees is special than the rest of the flooders...Limbic knew this...looking back on that thread..if i were the king of the universe, i wont allow joe dees to post anything here at all..but i am not.....

[Blunderov] And even if he is a heretic, he is our own resident heretic, and I think he should have normal e-mail facilities.

[Mermaid]i dont have 'email' facilities...i join the bbs to post...i dont think thats a valid excuse to flood the list..do you *really* buy that excuse??..i have a bridge to sell..its near this place called brooklyn..interested?...dees' reputation precedes him, unfortunately...joe dees has a history of abusing this list...limbic was aware of that..limbic knows why joe dees chose to leave on his own accord..limbic was the only person to 'second' your motion.....i hold limbic more responsible than you...take a fucking leap of faith..trust my words...if we dont censor joe dees' flooding habits at once, this place is going to become a shithole again...if you continue to support him without investigating the past, i'll hold you responsible too...in the meantime, i am out of the bbs for a while...until this is settled..i have had my say...i feel that i have done my duty and thats that...this is waaaayyyyy too much excitment for me to handle...
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RE: virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #26 on: 2004-05-22 08:35:53 »
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Mermaid
Sent: 22 May 2004 01:08 PM


Do you have ANY idea how many times we have been promised flood
control...when you proposed his return to cov(he was never banned..he chose
to leave because he was admonished), you didnt know the full story(or so i
am assuming)...you have NO idea how much grief this community had to
bear..how many friendships strained...how much bandwidth eaten up....because
of Joe Dees' ability to lie through his teeth re his flooding restraint..his
faithful 'fellow fighter' is always limbic..fine, you didnt know that the
first time..i recall someone protesting, but it died down a quick defensive
death...joe dees is on probation...for a reason...and a damn fucking good
reason...everyone else here is probably too nice and polite to tell you
that..not me...well..now, you do...with all due respect, blunderov(really, i
do respect you), there is nothing scholarly or gentlemanly about joe dees'
repeating his previous obsession...do we have to take a fucking poll to find
out how much we, as a grou!
p, detest joe dees' ramblings...you dont have to take my word for it...you
must have seen the proof for yourself...the same pattern of list abuse....i
request you to join the majority of the group in asking joe dees to stop
flooding our inboxes...you are free to take sides..but responsibility ALWAYS
goes with the decisions we make...i am speaking out of frustration..not that
i have anything against you...or that i wish to be rude...

----
[Blunderov] I appreciate your candor. And I haven't taken the slightest
offence, please allow me to reassure you.

If I have been unwise or precipitate then I regret it. But I don't think
there is too much to be concerned about. It seems to me that Joe has been
restrained and reasonable.

Yes, there was a bit of a flood the other day. But there had been quite a
tetchy debate (in which I played no small part). Joe is probably no less
subject to his passions than the rest of us. But when requested to do so, he
desisted.

Perhaps I should explain myself a bit here. I feel strongly that people
should be entitled to voice their opinions and have them subjected to the
critical scrutiny of others. I believe that in this way progress is made.

Conflicting opinion is useful because it helps us to test our own
convictions. And sometimes it is correct.

I think Joe has shown by his recent actions a clear concern for the harmony
of the CoV. I hope everyone will take this into account and encourage it.

Best Regards.




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Re:virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #27 on: 2004-05-22 08:49:42 »
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Blunderov, I wish you were my daddy....
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RE: virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #28 on: 2004-05-22 09:51:11 »
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Mermaid
Sent: 22 May 2004 02:50 PM

Blunderov, I wish you were my daddy....

[Blunderov] Very kind of you. But it seems to me that your own dad has done
a very good job.
Best Regards


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Re: virus: FW: News Coverage as a Weapon
« Reply #29 on: 2004-05-22 10:40:41 »
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The problem is not Joe. 

The problem is that our mail system needs individual threaded blacklists.

If someone doesn't like Joe's mail, they should be able to rate him down and block threads he initiates, etc.

Finding fault with people doesn't allow for progress...

Analyze the actions and create a system that allows Joe to be Joe and Erik to be Erik...
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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