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David Lucifer
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CoV Quiz
« on: 2005-12-03 23:57:03 »
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I'd like to collaborate on a new quiz for the CoV (possibly for wider distribution than this site). The quiz should be very quick and easy, I'm thinking of just 10 statements which you either agree or disagree with. If the quiz taker get 8 or more "right" (meaning the same as how the majority of us would answer them) then they will get a special invitation to join us in our mission.

Let's brainstorm initially (i.e. anything goes, not criticisms yet). Variation now, selection later. Everyone feel free to jump in with some claims that you think define us as a group.

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Re:CoV Quiz
« Reply #1 on: 2005-12-04 00:07:53 »
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I initiated a similar project a few years ago for an internet startup. I tracked down the flash and published it here>> http://www.kumo.com/flash/

Looks like the fonts are a bit screwy and there are some errors, but it works if you hit submit initially and then click on "agree" or "disagree" after that.

We may be able to use some of the questions verbatim>>

The world of 2000 is better than the world of 1900.
Some groups should be censored.
There are no absolute truths.
A human life is priceless.
Machines may one day supersede human intelligence.
Free market economics are the most efficient.
All people are equal.




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Re:CoV Quiz
« Reply #2 on: 2005-12-04 10:34:41 »
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Uh-oh. If all of those questions require a "yes" I might not be a good Virian. Well, either way I hope to help. Here's a list of questions I would personally want to ask. Maybe not the kind of thing you're hoping for though.

NOTE: At the end of each question is a text in brackets. "(R)" implies a ranking system. "(1)" implies pick one only. "(A)" implies pick any and all applicable. "(T)" implies a box for text. "(S)" implies a score of 1 - 5.

Your gender is (1)

*None of your business

*Male

*Female

*Androgynal

*None.


You were born in the year (T)

Your region of residence is (T)

List some key words or phrases you feel best suit you. Separate each one by a comma. (T)


What is your drive in CoV? (R)

*Thirst for knowledge

*Revolution

*Kill time on the net

*Loneliness

*Dark desires


What brought you here? (1)

*Followed a link on a web page (T)

*I got the link from a poster whose handle is (T)

*Found it through a search engine, and wasn't what I'm looking for but I looked anyway. Some search words were (T)

*Found it through a search engine, and it's just what I was searching for. Some search words were (T)


Choose any that relate to your personal values. 1 being unnoticeable, 5 being top priorities (S)

*Family

*Freedom of speach

*Do the things I want

*Knowledge

*Money

*Power

*Love

*Sex

*Time well wasted

*Spirituality

*Career

*Personal achievement

*Success by comparison

*Spontinaety

*Careful planning

*Peace

*Justice

*Discipline




What is the least you hope to gain from CoV? (T)

What is the ultimate gain you envision from CoV? (T)

If you were a virus, what kind would you most likely be? (1)

(Following: a list of viral archetypes, with each one having a description from the sound of a biologist).


What can you picture yourself using this site for? 1 being unnoticeable, 5 being all the time. (S)

*Take RSS feeds and play around with programming.

*Research from the links and apply it to personal projects.

*Find like-minded people

*Antagonize the enemy

*Inject it with my own agenda

*Open my mind to new ideas

*Just get smarter

*Keep me busy


Do you want to become a Virian? (1)

*Yes

*No

*Probably, but let's work out the details.

*Maybe Later

*I don't know, what does it involve?

*Heck no! I'm just surfing.

*I guess I'll try anything once.

*I don't know, what do I get?


What do you think of the Virian religion?

*Creepy.

*It's about time.

*Weird, but cool.

*Weird, and not very useful.

*Very nice.

*Cool.

*Good, mainly because of reason.

*Good, mainly because of counter-culture.

*Bad, mainly because it's not what I believe.

*Bad, mainly because it's unconventional.


If not Virian, what is your personal religious group?

*Agnostic / Atheist

*Christian / Catholic

*Wiccan / Pagan

*Buddhist / Zen-do

*Moslim / Islamic

*Other

What religion, if any, is closest neighbouring yours? (T)

What separates you from that neighbouring religion? (T)

What religion, if any, is a second closest neighbouring yours? (T)

What separates you from that second neighbouring religion? (T)


If the world fell into chaotic anarchy, you would- (1)

*Take out a rifle and defend my territory.

*Take out a rifle and go hunting.

*Hide and plot and scheme

*Look for like-minded people and try to instate an authority between us.

*Try to reinstate authority the way it was.

*Become nihilist.

*Survive whatever way I can.

*Party.

*Look for people I can help.

*Pray.


The current politick is- (1)

*Infuriating and abhorrent

*Sad, but expectable.

*Pretty normal

*Nice.

*Couldn't ask for much better.

*Stupid and boring.

*Okay . . . if things work out the way I want.

*Terrifying . . . but there's a chance for good.

*Doesn't matter much. Fates are written.


Your life is- (1)

*Infuriating and abhorrent

*Sad, but expectable.

*Pretty normal

*Nice.

*Couldn't ask for much better.

*Stupid and boring.

*Okay . . . if things work out the way I want.

*Terrifying . . . but there's a chance for good.

*Doesn't matter much. Fates are written.



Other people are- (1)

*Infuriating and abhorrent

*Sad, but expectable.

*Pretty normal

*Nice.

*Couldn't ask for much better.

*Stupid and boring.

*Okay . . . if things work out the way I want.

*Terrifying . . . but there's a chance for good.

*Doesn't matter much. Fates are written.


CoV is- (1)

*Infuriating and abhorrent

*Sad, but expectable.

*Pretty normal

*Nice.

*Couldn't ask for much better.

*Stupid and boring.

*Okay . . . if things work out the way I want.

*Terrifying . . . but there's a chance for good.

*Doesn't matter much. Fates are written.


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David Lucifer
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Re:CoV Quiz
« Reply #3 on: 2005-12-04 12:12:29 »
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Quote from: gaiaguerrilla on 2005-12-04 10:34:41   

Uh-oh. If all of those questions require a "yes" I might not be a good Virian. Well, either way I hope to help. Here's a list of questions I would personally want to ask. Maybe not the kind of thing you're hoping for though.

No, it would be a poor test if all the answers were the same. You don't want to give the test taker any clue what the answer should be purely from syntax.

Those are indeed interesting questions for another test, but at this point I'm looking for statements to agree or disagree with. We should not assume that the test taker is familiar with the CoV.

Here's some more:

Humans are best understood as the product of genes and memes.
The universe is more than 10 billion years old.
The scientific method is the best known path to truth.
Biology shows irrefutable evidence of intelligent design.
The existence of ghosts proves that there is some form of life after death.
Morals are relative.
Everyone is born into sin.
There is only one true god.
Dinosaurs and humans co-existed.
There are some things humans are not meant to know.

Which ones do you agree with? Can you guess which ones I agree with?
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Re:CoV Quiz
« Reply #4 on: 2005-12-04 13:07:03 »
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lol at the dinosaurs! Hahaha!

Just for the heck, here's my answers. Everything (T)rue or (F)alse. * for comments (I couldn't resist).

1) The world of 2000 is better than the world of 1900. F
2) Some groups should be censored. F*1
3) There are no absolute truths. F*2
4) A human life is priceless. F*3
5) Machines may one day supersede human intelligence.T*4
6) Free market economics are the most efficient. F*5
7) All people are equal. F
Humans are best understood as the product of genes and memes. F*6
9) The universe is more than 10 billion years old. T
10) The scientific method is the best known path to truth. T*7
11) Biology shows irrefutable evidence of intelligent design. F*8
12) The existence of ghosts proves that there is some form of life after death. T*9
13) Morals are relative. F (same case as Truth / truth)
14) Everyone is born into sin. F*10
15) There is only one true god. T*11
16) Dinosaurs and humans co-existed. F
17) There are some things humans are not meant to know. T*12

*1: Only groups responsable for scientiffic progress and non-electronic advertising should follow rigid censorship. Everything electronic should be what you want when you want.

*2: Truth may exist, but our perception of Truth is blurred, thus we only know of truth(s) and can only hope for Truth.

*3: Life is conditional to the benefit of the common goal. I support death sentence in certain cases.

*4: Biological organisms have qualities that may prove key to the performance of other design. But I strongly believe it is now within our technological grasp to produce something that supersedes humanity. And I hope we do.

*5: Human beings are not responsable enough to buy nor sell on whim. 

*6: For now, all life forms are.

*7: The method itself must remain under scrutiny.

*8: I hope we avoid the term "Intelligent Design." We are being coerced into religious idiocy with vague scientiffic terms being used to disguise old garbage. I believe in possible intelligent design (no caps), but not the way our political troglodyte claims it.

*9: That is iff ghosts are proven to exist.

*10: Genes can include traits likely harmful to society. People are certainly born into cause for corruption.

*11: Thought experiment: General A says "Village A should be burned, but not village B" > General B says "Village B should be burned, but not Village A" > "What say you?" they both ask. > "You're both right" you say > "That's ridiculous" they exclaim. > "Then you're both wrong" you reply. > "We give you no choice but this one!" They reply. > "Then I choose one. Not because these are the wisest of choices, but because one must somehow be more valid than the other."
Add "My god says" before "Village" in this experiment. Which god do you worship?

*12: Hypothetically- My 12 year-old nephew is better not knowing the combination to my safe carrying a loaded gun.

Truth List: 5,9,10,12,15,17
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Re:CoV Quiz
« Reply #5 on: 2005-12-08 03:26:44 »
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I'm going to give my answers to the questions, and an explaination.

The world of 2000 is better than the world of 1900. (True. My answer is the same as just about anyone else, since for various reasons that meme is successful. We want to know we're making progress. What I really think is that you need some sort of reference for what is better, and thats highly subjective. There is no way of objectively way of defining the world as better unless you specify what better means in the question. For the reason that we cant know which is better is I almost put false. This is a poor question to ask since we cant make a proper evaluation of the quiz taker using this question. I dont think it should be used.)

Some groups should be censored. (False. The meme of freedom of the press etc. is a very powerful one, and allowing censorship of groups stiffles the spread of memes, which I feel goes against our cause. However, I might very well put false if I think that every situation should be evaluated individually, another powerful meme that I think much of this church agrees on. I think the battle between those two ideas, one making the statement true and the other making it false make this a poor question to ask when trying to figure out if someone should join our mission.)

There are no absolute truths. (False. hahaha, keep this one! anyone who answers yes is a dumbass. The statment is absolute in its nature, so saying its true immediately falsifies it. Paradoxes are fun.)

A human life is priceless. (True. Poor question. Actually many circumstances make me feel it is false. While a human life may not be priceless, you're going against a rightfully powerful meme by saying that. The reason it is so powerful is that human lives are the only vessal for all of the memes we have, and this meme is beneficial to all the other memes since they want to protect themselves. The most well developed memeplexes happen to be in retired people, who likely face the greatest advantage from this meme. Without it they are more likely to be seen as obsolete. I would argue for the continued perpetuation of this to be true. So even though i know it might be false in some circumstances I put true.)

Machines may one day supersede human intelligence. (True. Ok, so now what, thats just my prediction. By the way, going by some definitions people are machines themselves. I dont understand why this question is important.)

Free market economics are the most efficient. (True. what else works better?)

All people are equal. (False, but then its mematically beneficial for me to believe that all people are created equal. I might quickly read this question and think that it meant the same thing as created equal and put false. Dont like this question too much.)

Humans are best understood as the product of genes and memes. (true. good question.)

The universe is more than 10 billion years old.  (True. ok so this is just supposed to test peoples knowledge and whether or not theyve been taught that in school pretty much? I mean the scientifically predicted age is close enough to 10Gyr that i might not quite remember, maybe I think it was like 9.8 and youre trying to trick me with the question... I might even be a smartass and a say "well, a year is a revolution around the sun, and I know earth hasnt gone around the sun 10 billion times, so..." but then Id just be silly. I would suggest rephrasing it to be like "the universe has been around billions of years before man" if youre trying to catch silly baptists who think God created it rather recently or something. *shrug* hey, why dont you just ask "are you a silly believer who thinks God created the universe rather recently.")

The scientific method is the best known path to truth. (False. I dont think that you can judge the best method, and I know that most of Virus would consider this true, but hear me out. Did you use the scientific method to get, for example, the age of the universe, or did you simply listen to someone else tell you how old it was? You may have read much of the research, but you dont understand it all, and more than likely, you didnt even read all the reasons why the universe is as old as it is. Reading a scientific journal is the same as reading the bible, youre just favoring the claims for where the authors get their truth, youre not actually obtaining your truth using the scientific method. eh, whatever. im getting tired of writing all this.)

Biology shows irrefutable evidence of intelligent design. (False. Hey, now wait, yes it does show irrefutable evidence of intelligent design, if youre looking at the biology of strawberrys or corn, dogs, or... a lot of things!)

The existence of ghosts proves that there is some form of life after death.
Morals are relative. (false. existence of ghosts proves you have an immagination.)

Everyone is born into sin. (true. ill explain my view on sin some other time, but sin is favoring the genes over the memes pretty much, and when youre born you dont even have memes... ill get into it later)

There is only one true god. (True. Just depends on how you define God. Even if you dont believe the defined can exist physically, it exists metaphysically in  your mind so it exists.)

Dinosaurs and humans co-existed. (false.)

There are some things humans are not meant to know. (False)

more to come just not right now
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Re:CoV Quiz
« Reply #6 on: 2005-12-10 22:28:20 »
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I enjoyed going over these question in person(!) with gaiaguerilla, I hope it is the first of many f2f meetings.


Quote from: Pabreetzio on 2005-12-08 03:26:44   

I'm going to give my answers to the questions, and an explaination.

The world of 2000 is better than the world of 1900. (True. My answer is the same as just about anyone else, since for various reasons that meme is successful. We want to know we're making progress. What I really think is that you need some sort of reference for what is better, and thats highly subjective. There is no way of objectively way of defining the world as better unless you specify what better means in the question. For the reason that we cant know which is better is I almost put false. This is a poor question to ask since we cant make a proper evaluation of the quiz taker using this question. I dont think it should be used.)

True. The intent was to see if you're past-oriented or future-oriented. I suspect lots of people believe in some mythical golden age of the past, i.e. romanticism.


Quote:

Some groups should be censored. (False. The meme of freedom of the press etc. is a very powerful one, and allowing censorship of groups stiffles the spread of memes, which I feel goes against our cause. However, I might very well put false if I think that every situation should be evaluated individually, another powerful meme that I think much of this church agrees on. I think the battle between those two ideas, one making the statement true and the other making it false make this a poor question to ask when trying to figure out if someone should join our mission.)

I've found that most people believe in free speech, but only for those that they agree with. It seems that most would agree with laws that shut down, for example anti-semetic web sites.


Quote:

There are no absolute truths. (False. hahaha, keep this one! anyone who answers yes is a dumbass. The statment is absolute in its nature, so saying its true immediately falsifies it. Paradoxes are fun.)

Not so fast. I would say that the statement is true, but that doesn't make it an absolute truth. The reason is that whether a statement is true of false depends entirely on the interpretation, and the interpretation is not an objective fact about a statement, therefore the truth of any statement cannot be absolute.


Quote:

A human life is priceless. (True. Poor question. Actually many circumstances make me feel it is false. While a human life may not be priceless, you're going against a rightfully powerful meme by saying that. The reason it is so powerful is that human lives are the only vessal for all of the memes we have, and this meme is beneficial to all the other memes since they want to protect themselves. The most well developed memeplexes happen to be in retired people, who likely face the greatest advantage from this meme. Without it they are more likely to be seen as obsolete. I would argue for the continued perpetuation of this to be true. So even though i know it might be false in some circumstances I put true.)

I would disagree that a human life is priceless because that implies that it has infinite value. Value is always subjective. I guess it is possible that some people place infinite value on a few lives which implies that they would trade absolute anything for those lives (even every other life in the universe). Of course most lives aren't worth that, and none are worth that to everyone.


Quote:

Machines may one day supersede human intelligence. (True. Ok, so now what, thats just my prediction. By the way, going by some definitions people are machines themselves. I dont understand why this question is important.)

The question is about the possibility, not the prediction. If you disagree then you must think it is impossible for some reason. (I don't)


Quote:

Free market economics are the most efficient. (True. what else works better?)

This one hinges on a rather technical economic definition of "efficient" so probably isn't a good question as phrased. But I agree with it.


Quote:

All people are equal. (False, but then its mematically beneficial for me to believe that all people are created equal. I might quickly read this question and think that it meant the same thing as created equal and put false. Dont like this question too much.)

Hmm, well obviously all people are not created equal either so I'm not sure what you mean.


Quote:

Humans are best understood as the product of genes and memes. (true. good question.)

Agreed.


Quote:

The universe is more than 10 billion years old.  (True. ok so this is just supposed to test peoples knowledge and whether or not theyve been taught that in school pretty much? I mean the scientifically predicted age is close enough to 10Gyr that i might not quite remember, maybe I think it was like 9.8 and youre trying to trick me with the question... I might even be a smartass and a say "well, a year is a revolution around the sun, and I know earth hasnt gone around the sun 10 billion times, so..." but then Id just be silly. I would suggest rephrasing it to be like "the universe has been around billions of years before man" if youre trying to catch silly baptists who think God created it rather recently or something. *shrug* hey, why dont you just ask "are you a silly believer who thinks God created the universe rather recently.")

I think the most recent estimate is 13.7B years old with an margin of error of only 200M years(!!). Yes, I'm trying to catch silly xtians here.


Quote:

The scientific method is the best known path to truth. (False. I dont think that you can judge the best method, and I know that most of Virus would consider this true, but hear me out. Did you use the scientific method to get, for example, the age of the universe, or did you simply listen to someone else tell you how old it was? You may have read much of the research, but you dont understand it all, and more than likely, you didnt even read all the reasons why the universe is as old as it is. Reading a scientific journal is the same as reading the bible, youre just favoring the claims for where the authors get their truth, youre not actually obtaining your truth using the scientific method. eh, whatever. im getting tired of writing all this.)

I believe the estimates of the age of the universe only because I have good reason to think they used the scientific method. Broadly speaking I don't trust information from any other source.


Quote:

Biology shows irrefutable evidence of intelligent design. (False. Hey, now wait, yes it does show irrefutable evidence of intelligent design, if youre looking at the biology of strawberrys or corn, dogs, or... a lot of things!)

Or the infamous monkeybat?!


Quote:

The existence of ghosts proves that there is some form of life after death.

I say false because I interpret this as a conjunctive claim (ghost exist AND that proves life after death). gaia interpreted it as a conditional (if ghosts exist that would prove life after death). Needs work.


Quote:

Morals are relative. (false. existence of ghosts proves you have an immagination.)

Did you answer whether morals are relative or the previous claim?


Quote:

Everyone is born into sin. (true. ill explain my view on sin some other time, but sin is favoring the genes over the memes pretty much, and when youre born you dont even have memes... ill get into it later)

Interesting view...


Quote:

There is only one true god. (True. Just depends on how you define God. Even if you dont believe the defined can exist physically, it exists metaphysically in  your mind so it exists.)

I would say that if god exists only in your mind it isn't the one true god but rather the corresponding meme.


Quote:

Dinosaurs and humans co-existed. (false.)

Agreed, thanks squidness.


Quote:

There are some things humans are not meant to know. (False)

Agreed. gaia interpreted this as "some humans are not meant to know" but I think it is pretty clear as it stands. Or we could say "There are some things no humans are meant to know" to make it even more clear.
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Re:CoV Quiz
« Reply #7 on: 2005-12-10 22:33:01 »
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A few more...

Everyone ultimately gets what they deserve.
(looking for people who believe in karma here)

Some things and places are sacred.
(looking for superstitious people here)

People have a right to end their own lives.
(curious about what others think about this one)

An immortal life would be boring.
(looking for people that lack imagination)

What other beliefs set us apart as a group? In other words, which claims would we answer differently than the average net user?
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Re:CoV Quiz
« Reply #8 on: 2005-12-10 22:36:49 »
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p.s. Very nice to see you again, Pabreetzio!
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Re:CoV Quiz
« Reply #9 on: 2005-12-11 03:59:48 »
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Oh, I like the "an immortal life would be boring" question! FALSE muwhahaha. Definately a keeper. I wonder what sort of beliefs etc. a person would have with infinate time to acumulate memes. I dont think even very old people are so set in their ways that they couldnt be convinced of new things. I wonder if a population would reach the same conclusions with enough time. hmm.

and since i started with the last question since it was the last i read, i guess ill work back up to the top

People have a right to end their own lives? Hard question to answer since it depends on how you define right. Are rights given by society? Then the answer depends on the society. I guess it depends on who the person is too, as harsh as that sounds. You might be needed  by society, and not have the right. You might be harful to society, and gladly granted the right. Or, like Lawrence of Arabia http://www.bookworld.com/lucifer/excerpt2.html, your time may have passed- no longer having any function he one day just slipped away.

Some things and places are sacred. Of course they are, why else would we even have the word "sacred." As the great English teacher James Hileman once said "Dont shit where you eat!" It makes sense and in some cases is responsible for survival.

Everyone ultimately gets what they deserve? well, although you can believe in karma in large part and still say no, I guess itd be pretty hard to justify a yes for this unless im missing something.


Morals are relative. I ran over this one before and didnt answer it. tough question (i think at first). My first thought is yes, they are, since people have different beliefs. Then I seemed to remember telling myself they wernt, so I thought about it some more. I looked it up, and i came to my conclusion that yes, morals are relative, since that refers to peoples rules or habbits of conduct when its used as a plural noun. "she has loose morals" I thought I remembered telling myself that morals were not relative because what I HAD told myself before was that what is moral (the singlar adjective here) is not relative. Maybe thatd even be a better question : "what is moral is relative" now youve got a topic for debate. otherwise a definate yes, morals are relative.

What is moral is relative. This is not the same as what is ethical, which depends on society. As I have heard it defined before, morals are definate rights and wrongs that are not relative to society, and thats how they are defined.

I wonder if this church is dying. Invitation to join our mission may be quite futile... I think this church is dying, and I'll explain why in a seperate post.
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