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Topic: Pope Benedict XVI Pleads for an End to Capitalism (Read 2067 times) |
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Blunderov
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Pope Benedict XVI Pleads for an End to Capitalism
« on: 2008-12-25 19:13:29 » |
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[Blunderov] Marxism is back in fashion - or so it might seem. First the IMF and now the Pope have rounded upon that (formerly) hallowed self interest which has guided that (formerly) infallible miracle of Adam Smith's "invisible hand".
The Catholic Church usually knows which side of its bread has the political butter on it. A sign of the times?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3658935#3658938
onehandle (1000+ posts)
Thu Dec-25-08 08:58 AM
Original message
Pope decries selfishness in economic crisis
VATICAN CITY – Pope Benedict XVI warned in his Christmas message Thursday that the world was headed toward ruin if selfishness prevails over solidarity during tough economic times for rich and poor nations. Speaking from the central balcony of St. Peter's Basilica, Benedict said he was trying to inspire hope in the world.
"Brothers and sisters, all you who are listening to my words: this proclamation of hope — the heart of the Christmas message — is meant for all men and women." The traditional papal Christmas Day message "Urbi et Orbi" — Latin for "to the City and to the World" — usually covers the globe's hot spots, but this year Benedict also addressed the economic conditions worrying many across the planet amid near-daily news of layoffs, failing companies and people losing homes.
Benedict said his Christmas message applied to "wherever an increasingly uncertain future is regarded with apprehension, even in affluent nations." "In each of these places may the light of Christmas shine forth and encourage all people to do their part in a spirit of authentic solidarity," Benedict said. "If people look only to their own interests, our world will certainly fall apart." [Bl.] (My emphasis).
Benedict said he hoped the light of Christmas would radiate to places where "the basics needed for survival are missing." Wearing a crimson mantle against a damp chill, Benedict told tens of thousands of people in St. Peter's Square that God's saving grace could "alone transform evil into good" and "change human hearts, making them oases of peace."
Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081225/ap_on_re_eu/eu_vati...
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Hermit
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Re:Pope Benedict XVI Pleads for an End to Capitalism
« Reply #1 on: 2008-12-25 22:12:59 » |
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[Poop] God's saving grace could "alone transform evil into good" and "change human hearts, making them oases of peace."
[Hermit] Given that the oldest religious artifacts seem to date back to about 70 kY BCE,and we have a record of people worshiping tens of thousands of gods if not hundreds of thousands of gods since then, it is strange that there is no recorded instance where these gods appear to have caused people of different belief systems to agree on what exactly is good - or evil -never mind transforming it, let alone making hearts "oases of peace" - something that would presumably require that people stop killing one another. So it looks as if these god thingies are powerless except in so far as "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."[Steven Weinberg, 1999]
You'd think people would have learned to look a bit skeptically at this class of crap by now.
Interestingly the call for a turn to socialism is a call that many churches have made, but on the few occasions this appeared, in the last millennium at least, the RC church has been at the forefront of eradicating it. History shows that the church much prefers gathering wealth to distributing it. Which is a major component of the opposition to the communism that arose in the 1200s and lead directly to the Cathar crusades, and ultimately to "Kill them all, God will know his own" and the joys of the Inquisition. Which aspect of this does Benedict not comprehend, and if he comprehends it, why does he not bother to address the yawning gap between his words and the actions of his church? Where were his gods then?
When we know that every human mouth delivered to the planet adds to the degree of starvation and dehydration facing us, and the horrors of consequent resource wars, how can the one person singly most representative of unconstrained population growth speak of evil without blinking?
The evil days come and churches, particularly the RC churches, have been one of the major factors ensuring this. If Benedict is reacting to the fruits of his Church's teachings without addressing the policies that caused them, it is hypocrisy of the highest water to be lecturing on it. If he is too stupid to draw the linkage, then it is hubris of the highest order to be lecturing on it. This appears to leave him as a knave, a fool or some more complex combination.
Kindest Regards
Hermit
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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Fritz
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Re:Pope Benedict XVI Pleads for an End to Capitalism
« Reply #2 on: 2008-12-26 01:45:38 » |
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I think Blunderov you are on to something. I don't disagree with Hermit's point at all, but there does seem to be a subtext or Meme being expressed by the Churches, self servering as usual, that does mark I think a sign of the times. I do think it ironic that the points being made by the Churches, apply to themselves as well.
Cheers
Fritz
Source: Telegraph
Author: Matthew Moore
Date: 25 Dec 2008
Religious leaders blame bankers' greed for financial crisis
A culture of greed and immorality within the banking system is to blame for the financial crisis, religious leaders said in their Christmas sermons.
The Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams delivers his Christmas sermon during the 2008 Christmas Day service at Canterbury Cathedral, Canterbury, Kent Photo: PA
Archbishops devoted their annual messages to the human suffering caused by the global economic downturn, and called for communities to come together to support those who lose most in the turmoil.
Dr John Sentamu, the Archbishop of York, attacked exploitative money lenders who pursued "ruthless gain" and urged banks not to "enrich themselves at their poor neighbours' expense".
He compared the looming recession to the conditions Britons endured during the Second World War, and called for a new generation to show the "Blitz spirit" that helped defeat the Nazis.
"True charity repudiates the idea of personal gain as a result of lending money to make ruthless gain – usury – bringing about permanent disappropriation and enslavement," he told a York Minster congregation including Conservative leader David Cameron and his family.
"In the present economic crisis we need to rediscover that spirit of togetherness that helped the British people during the Second World War to stand together in the face of food rationing and the Blitz.
"We had better stand together or we will all hang separately economically."
Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, said that people should not waste time waiting for "larger-than-life" heroes to bring comprehensive solutions to the ills of the world.
Relief from the crisis will come through "small and local gestures" from individuals, he said at Canterbury Cathedral.
"In the months ahead it will mean in our own country asking repeatedly what is asked of us locally to care for those who bear the heaviest burdens in the wake of our economic crisis – without waiting for the magical solution, let alone the return of the good times."
Last week Dr Williams sparked a political row by criticising Gordon Brown's economic recovery plan, likening measures to boost consumer spending to an "an addict returning to a drug". He also claimed that the credit crunch was a welcome "reality check" for a society that has become driven by unsustainable greed.
Yesterday the leader of the Catholic church in England and Wales used his Christmas message to speak about the breakdown in trust prompted by the credit crunch.
Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, Archbishop of Westminster, said that recent examples of "spectacular" misbehaviour by financiers would make it very difficult to rebuild trust in the global economic system.
In a homily at Midnight Mass in Westminster Cathedral – widely expected to be his last before the Vatican announces his successor in the New Year – he said that millions of people in this country now felt so let down by financial institutions that they were "deeply anxious" about the future for themselves and their families.
He said: "Christianity neither condemns nor canonises the market economy – it may be an essential element in the conduct of human affairs.
"But we have to remember that it is a system governed by people, not some blind force like gravity.
"Those who operate the market have an obligation to act in ways that promote the common good, not just in ways that promote the interests of certain groups[Fritz]"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition " .... sigh
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Where there is the necessary technical skill to move mountains, there is no need for the faith that moves mountains -anon-
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Blunderov
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Re:Pope Benedict XVI Pleads for an End to Capitalism
« Reply #3 on: 2008-12-27 02:18:51 » |
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Quote from: Fritz on 2008-12-26 01:45:38 I think Blunderov you are on to something.
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[Blunderov] It's invideous to wax all moralistic about your neighbor's infidelities if you've been banging his wife while he was away. Pity it is then that the churches long ago all turned a blind eye to the Biblically much reviled practice of usury which is now known as "banking"*. Thus, having surrendered all of its' ammunition without even a shot being fired, and given the public mood, Germany’s evangelical church council finds itself constrained to burble piously about "idolatry" instead.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3660433
adsosletter (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-26-08 11:24 PM
Original message
Deutsche Bank rejects church charge
Deutsche Bank reacted angrily on Friday after Germany’s senior Protestant bishop accused Josef Ackermann, its chief executive, of turning money-making into a form of “idolatry”.
In a rare and testy public exchange between a prominent German financial institution and a religious leader, Deutsche Bank dismissed as “inappropriate” the remarks by Bishop Wolfgang Huber, chairman of Germany’s evangelical church council.
Germany’s largest bank was upset by the timing of the personal attack, made in a newspaper interview published on Christmas Eve, as well as the substance of the censure.
Speaking to the Berliner Zeitung newspaper, Bishop Huber argued that bankers had a duty to look beyond the short term and to ensure stability: “Never again should a Deutsche Bank chief executive set a profit goal of 25 per cent.” Such goals drove up profit expectations to unsustainable levels and amounted to “a form of idolatry”, he said. “In the current circumstances, money has become a god.”
Read more: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9b0453f6-d37c-11dd-989e-00007...
*[Bl.] The neologism "bankster" is, ISTM, another telling instance of the zeitgeist. 
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