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Topic: Stupid ideas: Obama is a Muslim (Read 609 times) |
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MoEnzyme
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Stupid ideas: Obama is a Muslim
« on: 2008-10-24 13:12:39 » |
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So my personal ad said your don't have to be a genius to hang out with me. Yes, I have a low tolerance for stupidity, whether my own or someone else's, but I have a sense of humor about it, I like to think. And so it happened last night that I ended up sitting very close to a reasonably attractive woman who wasn't a right-wing wacko as far as I could tell, but who sincerely told me that she believed that Obama is a Muslim. I was on my better behavior so I didn't laugh out loud at her; Indeed I did what I hope so many other politically liberal folks like myself will take the time to do . . . I explained why Barack Obama was obviously not a Muslim.
This topic isn't entirely about this particular candidate, which is part of the reason that it can be such an easy point to make. Its simply pointing out the difference between a tribally based religion and a more philosophically based religion. Judaism, for example, retains many of the basic patterns of a tribally based religion. It all basically comes down to a question of who is your mother. If your mother was Jewish, then as far as Jews are concerned you are one of them. It doesn't matter what you believe, or even if you believe anything at all, the fact remains that it is a religion you are either born into or not. Although conversion is not unheard of, it is generally looked upon with great suspicion by the rest of the tribe. For the most part your membership in the community is largely matter of heritage, and even if you attempt to renounce it, many Jews will simply label you as a self-loathing Jew rather than a non-Jew. Being a "secret Jew" isn't such a stretch of the cultural imagination, indeed the tribe has had an abundant history of remaining clandestine in times of persecution.
Which brings me to the more philosophically based religions. Here Christianity and Islam are actually much more alike than different. Both religions require a profession of faith and preferably a public one at that. Fellow Christians and Muslims generally won't let you get away with anything less. If anything being a "secret Muslim" is even more absurd than being a "secret Christian". It seems that self identified and/or born-again Christians ought to actually understand this better than less religious folks, and yet during this political season it seems mostly just such people who primarily spread this misinformation. Of course this was my personal exception since this woman was obviously not very religious. And so for such folks I understand some need for explanation.
So in any case, you can't really be a secret Muslim. Its not like having a Jewish mother. For real Muslims its not even remotely significant that Obama had a Muslim father or step-father. Even if his fathers were observant (which they weren't) it only matters whether or not Barack himself professes a Muslim faith. Other Muslims generally do not care about heritage; they only want to hear this profession of faith. They aren't much different from Christians that way, and if anything they are even more insistent. The profession of faith is not just a minor detail, for the Muslim it is one of the central pillars of the religion. Anyways, don't just take my word for it, if you know a self-professed Muslim, then simply ask them. I personally have yet to find one who is shy about the topic.
To whatever extent Obama has professed ANY faith, it certainly hasn't been Muslim. I'm not about to personally to judge his Christian credentials, but to whatever extent he has proclaimed a faith, it has been Christian, which obviously adds only further preclusions to his being Muslim in any sense that other Muslims would appreciate. If Christians want to argue about how Christian Obama is, I'm the last to interject, but if it comes down to Islam, I don't think other Muslims would accept Obama as such. I thought these OUGHT to be obvious points, but at least one person has convinced me that they might not be, so I hope this brings some clarity.
-Mo
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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Fritz
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Re:Stupid ideas: Obama is a Muslim
« Reply #1 on: 2008-10-25 18:28:26 » |
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Quote:| [Mo]I was on my better behavior so I didn't laugh out loud at her; Indeed I did what I hope so many other politically liberal folks like myself will take the time to do . . . I explained why Barack Obama was obviously not a Muslim. |
I appreciated the take you took, differentiating in the 3 views of Christendoms, worked for me and I hadn't looked at that way.
But more importantly did your kind, caring approach result in a 'happen ending'. 
In suspense.
Fritz
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Where there is the necessary technical skill to move mountains, there is no need for the faith that moves mountains -anon-
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Stupid ideas: Obama is a Muslim
« Reply #2 on: 2008-10-26 03:01:52 » |
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Quote from: Fritz on 2008-10-25 18:28:26
Quote:| [Mo]I was on my better behavior so I didn't laugh out loud at her; Indeed I did what I hope so many other politically liberal folks like myself will take the time to do . . . I explained why Barack Obama was obviously not a Muslim. |
I appreciated the take you took, differentiating in the 3 views of Christendoms, worked for me and I hadn't looked at that way.
But more importantly did your kind, caring approach result in a 'happen ending'.
In suspense.
Fritz
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Thanks for your concern for my more basic interests. She did seem to understand what I was saying . . . it may have been a bit of inside religious thinking for someone who wasn't so religious, but I think that she's encountered enough religious Christians to understand what I was saying even though it was about Muslims. So at least from the perspective of her not unwittingly spreading the Obama-is-a-Muslim meme it seems that I was likely successful, so I'll count that as a happy ending of sorts.
As for those more basic issues, I didn't get the impression that I was getting too far anyway; women almost always decide in the first couple of minutes how far they will let a male go that way. Of course they don't come out and tell you, but the older I get, the better I am at recognizing signs, so once we got past those issues, I proceded indulging my more peculiar intellectual interests better -- I'm good at entertaining myself that way and there weren't any other obviously available females at the moment.
It was a happier ending than it could have been; certainly at least a polite enjoyable conversation. The more experienced I get at the game, the more I realize that its simply a matter of entertaining oneself until someone else finally shows that kind of interest. I used to think it had to do with being fascinating, pretending to listen to babble, or having a big dick. Thankfully I learned better, so even if its an unlucky day of fishing I tend to enjoy myself anyway and end up getting laid more on average than when I actually worried about such things. Some women think its confidence, but I know its really just a way to fight boredom and learning to get along with the one person I KNOW I will go home with tonight with or without the extra company.
-Mo
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Stupid ideas: Obama is a Muslim
« Reply #3 on: 2008-10-30 20:03:00 » |
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While I admit the national prospects for Obama make me giddy, my own state is a sobering reminder how much of the country even on the verge of the Obama take-over is still stuck in cultural idiocy.
http://blogs.forbes.com/trailwatch/2008/10/a-quarter-of-te.html
Quote:| A University of Texas poll finds that in McCain-favoring Texas, 23% of voters believe that Barack Obama is a Muslim. |
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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