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Topic: Death to the burqa (Read 8968 times) |
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #45 on: 2009-09-21 12:06:52 » |
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I'm completely with Tesco on this one. Hoodies are slight less concealing of identity than a burqa, however enough so that I think Tesco is well within their rights here. Even more especially in the case of burqas. I do like this Jedi guy of course, but I'm not going to agree with him at the end of the day on this. He might indeed know that what he is doing is relevant to the burqa's, which is all the more reason we need to stop him in his tracks. That way when one of those real life Darth-Vader-burqas come walking in, everyone will be ready to dispatch the issue immediately.
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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Blunderov
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"We think in generalities, we live in details"
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #46 on: 2010-05-18 18:36:02 » |
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Quote from: MoEnzyme on 2009-09-21 12:06:52 <snip> That way when one of those real life Darth-Vader-burqas come walking in, everyone will be ready to dispatch the issue immediately.</snip>
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[Blunderov] And so it begins...
www.iol.co.za
Burka rage in French clothes shop
May 18 2010 at 05:50PM
By Peter Allen
A 60-year-old female lawyer ripped a Muslim woman's Islamic veil off during a row in what French police described as the first known case of 'burqa rage'.
The astonishing scene unfolded in a clothes shop in France when the pair came to blows before being arrested.
It came as racial tensions grow over of the country's plans to introduce a total ban on burqas and other forms of religious dress which cover the face.
The 26-year-old Muslim convert was walking through the store in Trignac, near Nantes, in the western Loire-Atlantique region, when she overhead the lawyer making 'snide remarks about her black burqa'.
A police officer added: 'The lawyer said she was not happy seeing a fellow shopper wearing a veil and wanted the ban introduced as soon as possible.'
At one point the lawyer, who was out with her daughter, is said to have likened the Muslim woman to Belphegor - a horror demon character well known to French television viewers.
The lawyer's use of the name 'Belphegor' was particularly inflammatory, said police, because the demon was portrayed by classical writers as 'Hell's ambassador to France'.
Belphegor, who hates human beings, is usually portrayed as a monstrous demon with horns and pointed nails, but frequently disguises himself.
During a period in Paris, Belphegor was said to live with a group of vampires in the Louvre.
Police said the incident was still being investigated, and that charges could follow.
Neither woman has yet been named.
A 'shouting argument' started in the store before the older woman is said to have ripped the other woman's veil off. - Daily Mail
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Fritz
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #47 on: 2010-05-18 19:15:48 » |
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Well not the latest news but I thought insightful spin from within the Muslim community.
Cheers
FRitz
Muslim group calls for burka ban in Canada
Source: National Post
Author: Charles Lewis,
Date: October 07, 2009
A Canadian Muslim group is calling on Ottawa to ban the wearing of the burka in public, saying the argument that the right to wear it is protected by the Charter’s guarantee of freedom of religion is false.
“The burka has absolutely no place in Canada,” said Farzana Hassan, of the Muslim Canadian Congress. “In Canada we recognize the equality of men and women. We want to recognize gender equality as an absolute. The burka marginalizes women.”
She said many women who cover their face in public are being forced to by their husbands and family. As a result, she argued, these women are denied opportunities and cannot live freely as other women in this society.
“The Koran exhorts Muslims toward modesty, which can be expressed in a number of different ways and it doesn’t have to be that you have to cover your face or you have to wear a virtual tent wherever you go. This is not a requirement of Islam or the Koran. We are saying this practice has become a political issue promoted by extremists and to counter this trend we are asking for a ban on the burka.”
The proposal calls for the banning of “masks, niqabs and burkas.” A niqab covers the face but allows the eyes to be seen; a burka covers the entire body and the eyes are obscured by a mesh covering.
“For me that is a huge embarrassment,” said Ms. Hassan. “It brings the kind of criticism Muslims [unfairly] face.”
Ms. Hassan said her group is bringing this up now because of an edict released this week in Egypt, by a top Muslim authority, calling for a ban on the burka.
Ms. Hassan said she is not asking for the banning of the hijab, which just covers the hair, but she would also like to see that custom vanish.
Professor Amir Hussain, who teaches theology at Loyola Marymount College in Los Angeles, but grew up in Toronto, said the fact that the burka is not in the Koran does not mean that it is not part of authentic religious practice and that many religions absorb cultural practices that eventually become sacred.
He said he does not believe there are enough women wearing the burka in Canada to call it a serious issue. But for those women who are being forced to wear it by family members, the best way to deal with it is to reach out to those women on an individual level.
He said any legal ban will infringe on fundamental democratic rights.
“In Turkey, a secular society, it is illegal to wear it. In Iran you’ll be punished if you don’t wear it. Either way imposing a belief on women.”
In the past few years, the debate over what kind of religious dress should be allowed has been loud and intense.
In June, French President Nicolas Sarkozy went so far as to call a parliamentary commission to look at whether to ban the wearing of burkas and niqabs in public. In France, religious headgear of any faith has already been banned in public schools.
Also in June, the Michigan Supreme Court amended its rules of evidence to give trial judges discretion over whether a woman can be fully veiled when testifying or when bringing accusations. The new rule did not mention Muslims but it will clearly affect Muslims.
Last year an Ontario judge said religious beliefs did not give a woman the right to wear a veil while testifying against her alleged rapist. The decision is now before the Ontario Court of Appeal.
In 2007, a Quebec election official created controversy when he said veiled Muslim women would have to take off their veil if they wanted to vote.
Wahida Valiante, chair of the Canadian Islamic Congress, said the right to wear a burka is absolutely covered by the Charter and no one can dictate what constitutes proper religious practice.
But she said by constantly bringing up a “miniscule” issue, that, too, skews society’s impression of Islam.
“If anyone ever finds this to be a huge problem I’d be the first one to participate in that discourse. There’s freedom of choice. Women can take their bra off and we don’t have any laws against that. So in that context a woman can choose to cover their face in this country.”
National Post
clewis@nationalpost.com
Read more: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/holy-post/archive/2009/10/07/muslim-group-calls-for-burka-ban-in-canada.aspx#ixzz0oKFbVkxR
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #48 on: 2010-06-28 22:31:19 » |
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I'm rehearing an NPR story about headscarves, and I felt the need to reiterate where my objection lies. A western non-muslim woman married to a Muslim man is having issues reacting to her very young daughter experimenting with wearing a muslim headscarf (nothing concealing her face). I really have no issue with this as it doesn't conceal her face for communication purposes. Even if it has some religious basis I don't object to this much. On a basic human level I don't object to general physical concealment as long as faces aren't hidden. If it were my daughter I'd have some particularly pointed issues to make, but I wouldn't interfere with other parents' decisions in allowing or even encouraging this kind of behavior. However, I think there is a basic level on which I think honest social expression reasonably expects full facial expressions regardless of sex, but beyond that I think we should be willing to allow anyone of any age to experiment with what they otherwise feel comfortable with whether or not such issues are rooted in culturally religious issues. Congruent with that, I still say death to the Burqa. Nobody of any age should expect support in hiding their faces from normal public social interactions.
-Mo
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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Blunderov
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #49 on: 2010-06-29 04:41:23 » |
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[Blunderov]Mo, what is your opinion on the subject of sunglasses? They are worn much more often to disguise, if you will, the expression of the eyes than they are for a shield against glare. Indeed they can make the accurate indentification of faces quite difficult which is why they have been so beloved by spooks of various sorts since their advent into popular culture from Hollywood in the 40's. Would you ban sunglasses for obscuring the windows to the soul?
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #50 on: 2010-07-02 06:32:01 » |
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Quote from: Blunderov on 2010-06-29 04:41:23 [Blunderov]Mo, what is your opinion on the subject of sunglasses? They are worn much more often to disguise, if you will, the expression of the eyes than they are for a shield against glare. Indeed they can make the accurate indentification of faces quite difficult which is why they have been so beloved by spooks of various sorts since their advent into popular culture from Hollywood in the 40's. Would you ban sunglasses for obscuring the windows to the soul?
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I wear sunglasses daily outdoors to block the sun's UV rays which can damage the eyes over our longer lifetimes. However, I usually remember to remove them when I'm indoors. Sunglasses have real utility unrelated to disguise, and while they can make identification more difficult, not so difficult as a burqa. I think business proprietors should be within their rights to request patrons to remove them indoors, but I don't see them as big a problem as a burqa. Aside from protecting my eyes, sunglasses really seem to more disguise from others the objects and direction of my eye contact rather than my own identity.
-Mo
ps - I've sometimes used sunglasses indoors to enhance communication. If I've just come inside and haven't taken them off yet, sometimes I will wait until an important moment in the middle of a conversation to take them off. Combined with leaning in slightly towards the other person it really creates the social effect of closing distance to a more intimate level than if I never had them on to begin with. A good way to sneak around a more defensive person's social perimeter -Mo
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #51 on: 2010-07-22 00:51:54 » |
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While some Europeans still agonize over this, Syria quietly does the right thing.
In Syria, Ban On Veil Raises Few Eyebrows
by DEBORAH AMOS
July 21, 2010
Quote:It's a small piece of cloth that has become a political symbol.
As a loud and controversial debate continues over wearing the Muslim face veil in Europe, Syria quietly imposed curbs Sunday on the niqab, the veil that exposes only the eyes.
The secular-minded Syrian government has rejected extreme religious dress in the classroom, the first Arab government to weigh in so heavily on the face veil.
While many Syrian Muslim women wear a head scarf, the Syrian government sees the face veil as a growing sign of radical Islam. The latest crackdown is in the education system. However, over the past year dozens of Islamic institutes have also been shuttered.
Most Syrians welcomed the government's decree and those who didn't kept quiet about it. |
full story and three minute audio at: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128671593&sc=fb&cc=fp
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #52 on: 2011-02-13 14:39:24 » |
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An important community message. 
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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