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   Author  Topic: Death to the burqa  (Read 8999 times)
MoEnzyme
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #30 on: 2009-07-16 15:30:51 »
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« Last Edit: 2009-07-16 15:39:37 by MoEnzyme » Report to moderator   Logged

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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #31 on: 2009-07-16 16:29:04 »
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[MoEnzyme] Yeah right, I like Blunderov's thoughtfullness too. However I still think its a no-brainer. Unless you are working strictly over the internet, and even then often-enough as well, people expect to deal with you . . . your actual face . . . or even a constructed social internet face . . . where your actual face or identity were more or less disclosed for business transaction purposes. <snip>

[Hermit] Perhaps I am confused. How, if it does, does this relate to the burqu' or masks - or is it an unannounced change of topic - or yet another appeal for attention? In which case, huggles from Iowa :-P

[Hermit] Note that if you want to conjoin these issues, you might need to do a better job of explaining yourself - and recognise that that in other cultures (e.g. Iraq under the USA, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia) and sub-cultures (e.g. members of strict Islamic and Jewish sects in Pakistan, Israel, UK and France), perhaps even in the USA, some women do business from under burqu' and from behind veils; that for centuries men fought battles - and often died - wearing armour and, or, other masks; and attempting to react to what your latest wriggle might be leading to, should you advocate refusing to deal with people wearing masks for medical reasons (e.g. most of the population of Japan, China and many Europeans particularly from countries of the previous Eastern block as necessary)  - as well perhaps as with people who have lost their faces (e.g. due to dog bites, fire or leprosy) that this might amount to what most people outside the great state of Texas* would regard as unacceptable discrimination.

*Not saying anything about Texas, but also not wanting to contradict you about people you are in a position to know far better than we do.
« Last Edit: 2009-07-16 16:35:42 by Hermit » Report to moderator   Logged

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #32 on: 2009-07-17 08:26:47 »
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Quote from: Hermit on 2009-07-16 16:29:04   

[MoEnzyme] Yeah right, I like Blunderov's thoughtfullness too.

[Blunderov] Thanks to Walter and Mo for kindly comments.




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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #33 on: 2009-07-17 09:48:23 »
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Thread? That's really serious! Where's the dratted thread?

(Illegitimate offspring of BBS speak and a Dragon riders of Pern reference. If you do not know Ann McCaffrey's Pern books, I can recommend them.)
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« Last Edit: 2009-07-17 09:51:00 by Hermit »
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #34 on: 2009-07-17 21:20:16 »
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Quote from: Blunderov on 2009-07-17 08:26:47   






Is it just me, or is that a seriously strange looking feline?


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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #35 on: 2009-07-24 05:08:20 »
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #36 on: 2009-07-24 10:30:25 »
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France falls out of love with topless sunbathing

Health concerns and new feminist priorities mean French women are covering up on the beach

[ Hermit : At least it isn't the Mother Hubbard. At least not yet. ]


Source: guardian.co.uk
Authors: Angelique Chrisafis
Dated: 2009-07-22

For some it's the stuff of naff Côte d'Azur postcards. For others it's a symbol of the feminist struggle in France. Topless sunbathing was once the summer battleground of French post-1968 society – educated middle classes insisted that peeling off was a women's right, while family groups claimed exposed nipples would scare children.

For decades, France has prided itself on being the world capital of seaside semi-nudity. Now the nation is facing a bikini-top backlash. A younger generation of women are covering up, citing new feminist priorities, skin cancer fears and a rebellion against the cult of the fetished body beautiful.

French academics and historians have spent the early summer months pondering the sociological meaning of the demise of France's once-favourite piece of beachwear, the "monokini" – the bottom half of a bikini with no top.

Since the 1970s, when the French state refused to ban "le topless" on beaches, women's semi-nudity has become a symbol of summer in France. It was a point of national pride that the same freedom to strip off in public was off-limits in other more prudish nations such as the US.

Women's bodies have always been the centre of national social debates in France. Jean-Marie Le Pen's far-right Front National once produced a poster warning against immigration which showed carefree French topless sunbathers in the 1990s against a doomsday prediction of burka-clad women invading French beaches in the year 2010.

But modern French 18- to 30-year-olds are rejecting toplessness, boosting the sales of two-piece bikinis and old-fashioned bathing suits.

A poll found 24% of women were perturbed by toplessness on beaches, while 57% said it was OK in a garden. Along the artificial summer beach Paris Plages, which opened on the Seine this week, topless sunbathing is punishable with a fine. The mayor of Saint Tropez has argued that the postcard myth of the feminine "charms" of the southern elitist sunspot are outdated as fewer women go topless.

French media insist that it tends to be the over 60s – women involved in the initial women's lib struggle - who dispense with tops. One swimsuit saleswoman said that going topless is no longer seen as a feminist act, as young women see equal pay and work-family balance as more pressing battlegrounds.

At the heart of this summer's cover-up phenomenon is historian Christophe Granger's new book, Corps d'été, a social history of the beach and the body in France.

He said: "In the 1960s and 1970s, toplessness was linked to the women's liberation movement, sexual liberation and a return to nature.

"Historical feminist writing details how the row over toplessness was a struggle for women to do what they liked with their bodies. What has been projected on to it today are different values, identified, not with equality but desire, sexualisation of the body, voluptuousness and the body perfect.

"It's less about women feeling at ease and free. It has been linked to the harsh cult of the body beautiful, where no imperfection is tolerated."

In some areas, the battle goes on. Les Tumultueuses, a group of young militant feminists, are still fighting for topless bathing rights in public swimming pools, denouncing the fact that men and women's bodies are treated differently. "My body, if I want, when I want" is one of the slogans they have borrowed from the 1970s struggle. Two months ago, when a group of them removed their tops and dived in to Les Halles public pool in Paris, pool assistants tried in vain to get them to cover up.

Previous topless commando raids on public pools have seen police intervene to stop them. Attendants at Paris's notoriously strict public pools have argued that if toplessness was allowed, swimmers would take more and more liberties such as arriving with no swimming hat or trunks.

Brigitte Bardot sunbathing in a 'monokini' in 1960. Photograph: © Bettmann/Corbis
 Brigitte-Bardot-Sunbathin-001.jpg
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #37 on: 2009-07-24 12:35:40 »
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Quote from: MoEnzyme on 2009-07-24 05:08:20   

For all those liberal left multicultural appeasement monkeys who defend the "choice" of Islamist women to wear burqas in public . . .

Apologists for evil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4FpTvp0tgs

Pat Condell responds to liberal critics of his Ban the Burqa video (see earlier post on this thread for that embedded video or direct link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlkxlzTZc48&).

And of course, one more time . . .

Death to the Burqa!! 







Hear hear!

Pat Condell stole the thoughts right out of my head on this!
We're talking about way more than burqas here too.


Walter
Death to the burqa!!   
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #38 on: 2009-07-24 14:38:47 »
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #39 on: 2009-07-27 04:22:58 »
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http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1912685,00.html


In France, A New Generation of Women Says Non to Nude Sunbathing
By Bruce Crumley / Paris Saturday, Jul. 25, 2009

For decades, the French have relished any opportunity to mock Americans for their supposed childish Yankee puritainisme when it comes to matters of sex. These days, though, France is experiencing its own blush of youthful prudishness as an entire generation of younger French women say "non, merci" to the summer tradition of topless sun bathing.

Since France's summer vacation season kicked off in early July, the press has repeatedly sounded the alarm over the shrinking number of topless women on the nation's beaches. As eagle-eyed reporters have made quite clear, the prevailing trend among sun-loving women these days is to actually use both pieces of their bikini. Le Monokini, C'est Fini! shouted Le Parisien in its July 21 report from a Mediterranean beach, using the preferred term for toplessness. "Nude Breasts Are Less Trendy" concurred free daily Metro France. "The fashion has become common, and as a result, less appealing," explained sociologist Jean-Claude Kaufmann in an accompanying Metro France interview. Some observers, including Kaufmann, have also noted that the return to the two-piece is also a response to rising concerns about skin cancer. (Read "In France, a Government-Led Revolution in Entrepreneurship")

But the more concealing swim wear trend is also part of a wider social movement by younger French women who are shunning the less inhibited habits of previous generations. If burning bras and going topless were the way French women of the 1970s and '80s demonstrated their freedom, their daughters and grand-daughters seem less comfortable with exposed flesh. "We're seeing a return to more [conservative] and families values," said Kaufmann. "Modesty and discretion are in fashion now."

A survey titled "Women and Nudity" released by polling agency Ifop captures the move to cover up. It indicates younger French women not only have a problem with nudity — but actually consider themselves prudish. Fully 88% of the women question qualified themselves as pudique—a term that can mean anything from "modest" or "prim" to full-blown "priggish".

And they aren't joking. Though 90% said they get naked with their husbands or partner, nearly 60% actively avoid being nude around their children. Sixty-three percent of respondents said they also refused to undress around women friends. Around 22% said they considered a woman in her underwear already naked.

With sensitivities like those, it's little wonder that the poll also found French women had strong opinions about public nakedness. Nearly 50% said they were bothered by total nudity on beaches or naturist camps, and 37% said they were disturbed by publicly exposed breasts or buttocks. Forty-five percent of respondents reported they'd simply prefer to see a lot less flesh hanging out for in full view — male or female.

Those attitudes got even more pronounced with respondents aged 18-24. Fully 25% of women within that age group described themselves as very pudique, and 20% saying they considered any nudity as tantamount to indecency. That, sociologists say, helps explain the changing scenery on French beaches. Younger women disinclined to barring their more private parts make up the majority of female sun bathers; those still willing to go topless are usually older French women who blazed the trail all those years ago. Or, as the Times of London's website phrased it: "Only The Oldies Go Topless on French Beaches".

"There aren't any rules, but, yeah, it's true when you're at the beach and look around, the only topless women anymore are older," said a 19 year-old named Elodie as she visited Paris' summertime artificial beach known as Paris Plage. Elodie pointed out that a municipal fine — and frequently lousy weather — made going topless at Paris Plage a non-starter. When asked whether she went topless on vacation beaches — and what factors made her decide when she did and didn't — Elodie's reply was as chilly as it was logical. "All those things," she said, "are personal concerns."

Good point — and one apparently leading most French women of Elodie's age to keep themselves bikini'd up. But the contrast with U.S. practices are hard not to notice. After all American women visiting France these days have no qualms about going topless. And plenty of young American women are only too happy to playfully flash their wares in exchange for a few beads. In some ways, the puritanical swimsuit now seems to be on the other torso — a new French squeamishness that will doubtless leave some Americans, well, titillated.

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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #40 on: 2009-08-13 08:20:56 »
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #41 on: 2009-08-13 19:28:39 »
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this has nothing to do with the burqa..in paris' public swimming pools even men arent allowed to swim if they are wearing swimming shorts. it has to be swimming trunks or they are banned. if these women could wear a wetsuit type of outfit..it would just be fine.

so relax...

you are obsessed with muslim women..a secret crush perhaps? maybe someone dumped you?


Quote from: MoEnzyme on 2009-08-13 08:20:56   

Parisian officials kick Darth Vader out of the public swimming pool. Bravo!
Death to the burqa!! 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g8SIBOp1Y256lTipHzwXtl2sWJ0A

Paris pool bans Muslim woman in 'burqini' swimsuit
(AFP) – 23 hours ago

PARIS — A Paris swimming pool has refused entry to a young Muslim woman wearing a "burqini," a swimsuit covering most of the body, officials said Wednesday, adding to tensions over Muslim dress in France.

The incident came as French lawmakers conduct hearings on whether to ban the burqa after President Nicolas Sarkozy said the head-to-toe body covering and veil was "not welcome" in France, home to Europe's biggest Muslim minority.

Officials in the Paris suburb of Emerainville said they let the woman swim in the pool in July wearing the "burqini," designed for Muslim women who want to swim without revealing their bodies.

But when she returned in August, they decided to apply hygiene rules and told her she could not swim if she insisted on wearing the garment, which resembles a wetsuit with built-in hood.

Pool staff "reminded her of the rules that apply in all (public) swimming pools which forbid swimming while clothed," said Daniel Guillaume, an official with the pool management.

Le Parisien newspaper said the woman, identified by her first name Carole, was a French convert to Islam and that she was determined to go to the courts to challenge the decision.

"Quite simply, this is segregation," the newspaper quoted her as saying. "I will fight to try to change things. And if I see that the battle is lost, I cannot rule out leaving France."

The newspaper ran a photo of the woman sporting her three-piece "burqini" which she said she purchased in Dubai during a recent holiday.

"I bought it thinking that I could enjoy swimming without having to uncover myself," she said.

Local mayor Alain Kelyor said "all this has nothing to do with Islam," adding that the "burqini" was "not an Islamic swimsuit; that type of suit does not exist in the Koran," the Muslim holy book.

France has set up a special panel of 32 lawmakers to consider whether a law should be enacted to bar Muslim women from wearing the burqa.

In an address to parliament in June, Sarkozy said the burka was not a symbol of religious faith but a sign of women's "subservience" and declared that it was "not welcome" in staunchly secular France.

The country has had a long-running debate on how far it is willing to go to accommodate Islam without undermining the tradition of separating church and state, enshrined in a flagship 1905 law.

In 2004, it passed a law banning headscarves or any other "conspicuous" religious symbols in state schools to defend secularism.

The burqa debate in France has drawn chilling warnings from Al-Qaeda that it was ready to "take revenge for the honour of our daughters and sisters."

Communist MP Andre Gerin, who heads the National Assembly's burqa commission, called the "burqini" ridiculous and said pool administrators were right.

"We can't allow this. This is proof that there is a political agenda behind such dress," Gerin told Le Parisien.

Copyright © 2009 AFP. All rights reserved

Damn straight Gerin! Of course there is a political agenda. I'm glad to see that both sides of the French political spectrum get it . . . Gerin on the left and Sarkozy on the right. -Mo
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #42 on: 2009-08-14 01:07:37 »
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #43 on: 2009-09-21 03:35:49 »
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[Blunderov] May the farce be with him.

telegraph

Jedi ejected from Tesco for wearing hood
The founder of the Star Wars-inspired Jedi faith has accused Tesco of religious discrimination after he was banned from wearing a hood in one of its stores.

By Murray Wardrop
Published: 7:00AM BST 18 Sep 2009

Daniel Jones, 23, who created the International Church of Jediism, claims he was “victimised over his beliefs” by staff at the supermarket in Bangor, North Wales.

The religion, inspired by the sci-fi films, is practised by 500,000 around the world and requires believers to cover their heads in public places. But Mr Jones, from Holyhead, said that staff ejected him from the store over security fears when he refused to remove his hood.

"I walked past a Muslim lady in a veil. Surely the same rules should apply to everyone."

The handbook of the UK Jedi Church, founded by the Star Wars fan last year, states: "Jedis must wear a hood up in any public place of a large audience."

Daniel added: "It was discrimination. I was really upset. Nobody should be treated like that.”

"I'll advise worshippers to boycott Tesco if it happens again. They will feel the Force."

A Tesco spokesman said: "Jedi are very welcome to shop in our stores although we would ask them to remove their hoods.

"Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda and Luke Skywalker all went hoodless without going to the Dark Side.

"If Jedi walk around our stores with their hoods on, they’ll miss lots of special offers."
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Re:Death to the burqa
« Reply #44 on: 2009-09-21 04:39:15 »
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It is a nutty religion and the farce is strong in them, but would Tesco ask the even more lunatic Christian nuns to remove their wimples or Islamic women to remove their burqu‘? If not, there is religious discrimination at work.

As usual there may be another side to this, which is the question of who, other than a fruitcake would be shopping at Tescos? Meaning that Tesco probably have to deal with more than their fair shake of the utterly unhinged and it being impossible to differentiate between religious and secular fruitcakes, they are merely being catholic.

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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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