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Topic: Fahrenheit 9/11 (Read 2104 times) |
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Mermaid
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Fahrenheit 9/11
« on: 2004-07-11 07:52:28 » |
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I didnt expect to enjoy it..and I didnt..it was grim..it was funny, in a surreal way...after the sombre intro with the florida election results..the footage goes on to show the smirking chimp and pals getting ready for a television shoot..where the shrimp is going to address the nation..you are laughing at him..you are laughing with him...he is like a lovable puppy who keeps goofing up and then there are all those grim faced pals of his...getting made up...combed, powdered and touched up...and then suddenly..the screen goes black...and you hear the sound of the plane hitting first tower...the sound of chaos ensues...your smile freezes..you close your eyes even though the screen is still blank..you are just about ready to stop squeezing your lids and just when you open them...the sound of the second plane crashing into tower #2.
i wont go on. see the movie..or download it...michael moore doesnt care if you see the pirated version or the full price paying one...the viewing experience of this documentary is only as good as it is because of the cast...
goodbye, dubya and thank you for the misery.
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David Lucifer
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Enlighten me.
 
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Re:Fahrenheit 9/11
« Reply #1 on: 2004-07-11 14:13:08 » |
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F 9/11 will the topic for the weekly chat on #virus on July 20.
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JD
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RE: virus: Fahrenheit 9/11
« Reply #2 on: 2004-07-12 06:51:04 » |
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Anti-War / Anti-Bush is now mainstream. If you want a taste of
non-conformist counter-culture, try the quiet critical thinkers taking
on the propagandist Hollywood behemoth that is Michael Moore.
The reviews of the film in the UK are near unanimous: yes he is a liar,
yes he stretches the truth, yes he is using cheap shots and tricks to
manipulate us - but he is very good at it, so that is OK.
I have seen Bowling For Columbine which was - before Fahrenheit 911- the
best example of contemporary political propaganda and manipulation I
know of. I have never seen such obvious distortions and tricks used so
successfully before or since.
I though everyone knew these tricks and they could not possibly work.
Old ones and famous ones like the unflattering close ups, the context
less quote, the running 'summary' that is downright distortion, the
images-tells-a-story-loop, and shameless appeals to emotion over reason.
I was saddened to see that these old tricks still work perfectly on
modern supposedly educated audiences.
I have not seen Fahrenheit 911 yet. I have though read about it
extensively. I will of course go and see it - but only to learn from a
master propagandist.
One might say this is why I would watch a Nazi propaganda film. Not to
enjoy the content, certainly not to be taken in by it, but to learn Mr
Goebbels' tricks.
I nominate Michael Moore as a Virian demon. A perfect example of an
anti-Virian.
Fellows, just because he serves your ends (I am addressing the Virian
majority who detest Bush), try not to be blind to his means.
Moore and his epigones serve up lies and distortions to support their
agenda - whatever that is.
We stand for the truth. Moore stands for his side.
We stand for rationality. Moore stands for emotional manipulation.
We stand for empathy. Moore stands for Utism.
We stand for integrity. Moore stands for hypocrisy.
Some more on Moore:
http://www.limbicnutrition.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-search.cgi?IncludeBlogs=8&s
earch=moore
And so, with a wave from the moral low ground, I will go back to
lurking.
Kind regards
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf
Of Mermaid
Sent: 11 July 2004 12:52
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Fahrenheit 9/11
I didnt expect to enjoy it..and I didnt..it was grim..it was funny, in a
surreal way...after the sombre intro with the florida election
results..the footage goes on to show the smirking chimp and pals getting
ready for a television shoot..where the shrimp is going to address the
nation..you are laughing at him..you are laughing with him...he is like
a lovable puppy who keeps goofing up and then there are all those grim
faced pals of his...getting made up...combed, powdered and touched
up...and then suddenly..the screen goes black...and you hear the sound
of the plane hitting first tower...the sound of chaos ensues...your
smile freezes..you close your eyes even though the screen is still
blank..you are just about ready to stop squeezing your lids and just
when you open them...the sound of the second plane crashing into tower
#2.
i wont go on. see the movie..or download it...michael moore doesnt care
if you see the pirated version or the full price paying one...the
viewing experience of this documentary is only as good as it is because
of the cast...
goodbye, dubya and thank you for the misery.
----
This message was posted by Mermaid to the Virus 2004 board on Church of
Virus BBS.
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid
=30608>
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Mermaid
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RE: virus: Fahrenheit 9/11
« Reply #3 on: 2004-07-12 10:16:04 » |
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[JDavis] The reviews of the film in the UK are near unanimous: yes he is a liar,
yes he stretches the truth, yes he is using cheap shots and tricks to
manipulate us - but he is very good at it, so that is OK.
[Mermaid]There are no lies in Fah 9/11 nor is the truth stretched.
[JDavis]I have seen Bowling For Columbine which was - before Fahrenheit 911- the best example of contemporary political propaganda and manipulation I
know of. I have never seen such obvious distortions and tricks used so
successfully before or since.
[Mermaid]Brilliant....so you agree that Fah 9/11 isnt made of lies..despite your previous assertion re UK reviews..or you havent seen it yet..
[JDavis]I have not seen Fahrenheit 911 yet. I have though read about it
extensively. I will of course go and see it - but only to learn from a
master propagandist.
[Mermaid]Ahh
[JDavis]One might say this is why I would watch a Nazi propaganda film. Not to
enjoy the content, certainly not to be taken in by it, but to learn Mr
Goebbels' tricks.
[Mermaid]And apply it where?
[JDavis]I nominate Michael Moore as a Virian demon. A perfect example of an
anti-Virian.
[Mermaid]Nonsense..he is almost adorable..like a fluffy bunny..
[JDavis]
We stand for the truth. Moore stands for his side.
We stand for rationality. Moore stands for emotional manipulation.
We stand for empathy. Moore stands for Utism.
We stand for integrity. Moore stands for hypocrisy.
[Mermaid]Did you learn this from the Nazi Propoganda Movies?
[JDavis]And so, with a wave from the moral low ground, I will go back to
lurking.
[Mermaid]Hey! I dont mind seeing it again...lets do a London Virian Fah911 bash?
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Matt Arnold
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Re:Fahrenheit 9/11
« Reply #4 on: 2004-07-12 10:50:19 » |
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Setting aside the issue of Moore, Jonathan could be on to something with the idea of a Virian demon. It's Goebbels. I think at least we can all agree on Goebbels, can't we?
I saw Farenheit 9/11 last week, and although I don't trust or believe Moore, I enjoyed it. It's a work of satirical commentary. I think anyone who walks out of the movie inflamed with passion, either against Bush or against Moore, might be slipping into a temporary "memebot mode."
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He believed in a door. The door was the way to... to... The Door was The Way. Good. Capital letters were always the best way of dealing with things you didn't have a good answer to.
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Mermaid
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Re:Fahrenheit 9/11
« Reply #5 on: 2004-07-12 11:00:34 » |
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Quote from: Matt_Arnold on 2004-07-12 10:50:19
Setting aside the issue of Moore, Jonathan could be on to something with the idea of a Virian demon. It's Goebbels. I think at least we can all agree on Goebbels, can't we? |
You cant make someone a virian demon because he was a nazi..they have their own special place...i think revisiting the virian saints page should be enlightening...altho' i am not thrilled with the idea of 'demons'
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JD
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RE: virus: Fahrenheit 9/11
« Reply #6 on: 2004-07-12 11:42:26 » |
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Mermaid
Sent: 12 July 2004 15:16
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: RE: virus: Fahrenheit 9/11
[Mermaid]Hey! I dont mind seeing it again...lets do a London Virian Fah911
bash?
[Jonathan] Mermaid you saucy wench! Canvassing for dates on at the CoV, who
would have thought it? :-)
I will give you call in the next few days and treat you to your second
helping of toxic propaganda.
Kind regards,
JD
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simul
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I am a lama.
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Re: virus: Fahrenheit 9/11
« Reply #7 on: 2004-07-12 11:47:14 » |
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: Anti-War / Anti-Bush is now
: mainstream. If you want a taste
Anti-bush, maybe. But Bush is still leading the polls.
My feeling is that many people still say that violence, revenge, etc. are acceptable behaviors - both for a person and for a country.
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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Walter Watts
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Re: virus: Re:Fahrenheit 9/11
« Reply #8 on: 2004-07-12 17:29:28 » |
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Great observation, Matt.
Matt_Arnold wrote:
<snip>
> I think anyone who walks out of the movie inflamed with passion, either against Bush or against Moore, might be slipping into a temporary "memebot mode."
>
> ----
> This message was posted by Matt_Arnold to the Virus 2004 board on Church of Virus BBS.
> <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=30608>
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Walter Watts
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"Pursue the small utopias... nature, music, friendship, love"
--Kupferberg--
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Walter Watts
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No one gets to see the Wizard! Not nobody! Not no how!
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simul
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Re: virus: Fahrenheit 9/11
« Reply #9 on: 2004-07-12 18:05:37 » |
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To say Moore's film wasn't skewed *at all* is going way too far. Farenheit 911 is certainly a skewed view.
Then again, Bush & Co. also present a skewed view via their pupped TV show “FOX news” ... so I say turnabout is fair play.
For example, Moore makes it seem like Osama's family was shipped out of the country during the no-fly.However, they were actually shipped to a center in Washington during the no-fly. Then, a week later, they were shipped to Paris. (Check out snopes.com, good research on this and more)
Personally, I think Bush was busy shooting himelf in the foot and his wackiness didn't need eggageration and long-winded anecdotes to be made into a compelling film. But, then again, I'm not a filmmaker.
(Faith devoid of purpose will lead us “knowhere”.)
-----Original Message-----
From: "Mermaid" <hidden@lucifer.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 08:16:05
To:virus@lucifer.com
Subject: RE: virus: Fahrenheit 9/11
[JDavis] The reviews of the film in the UK are near unanimous: yes he is a liar,
yes he stretches the truth, yes he is using cheap shots and tricks to
manipulate us - but he is very good at it, so that is OK.
[Mermaid]There are no lies in Fah 9/11 nor is the truth stretched.
[JDavis]I have seen Bowling For Columbine which was - before Fahrenheit 911- the best example of contemporary political propaganda and manipulation I
know of. I have never seen such obvious distortions and tricks used so
successfully before or since.
[Mermaid]Brilliant....so you agree that Fah 9/11 isnt made of lies..despite your previous assertion re UK reviews..or you havent seen it yet..
[JDavis]I have not seen Fahrenheit 911 yet. I have though read about it
extensively. I will of course go and see it - but only to learn from a
master propagandist.
[Mermaid]Ahh
[JDavis]One might say this is why I would watch a Nazi propaganda film. Not to
enjoy the content, certainly not to be taken in by it, but to learn Mr
Goebbels' tricks.
[Mermaid]And apply it where?
[JDavis]I nominate Michael Moore as a Virian demon. A perfect example of an
anti-Virian.
[Mermaid]Nonsense..he is almost adorable..like a fluffy bunny..
[JDavis]
We stand for the truth. Moore stands for his side.
We stand for rationality. Moore stands for emotional manipulation.
We stand for empathy. Moore stands for Utism.
We stand for integrity. Moore stands for hypocrisy.
[Mermaid]Did you learn this from the Nazi Propoganda Movies?
[JDavis]And so, with a wave from the moral low ground, I will go back to
lurking.
[Mermaid]Hey! I dont mind seeing it again...lets do a London Virian Fah911 bash?
----
This message was posted by Mermaid to the Virus 2004 board on Church of Virus BBS.
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=30608>
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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Mermaid
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RE: virus: Fahrenheit 9/11
« Reply #10 on: 2004-07-13 09:04:23 » |
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JD...do not believe for one second that I am not aware of your cunning plan to give me the slip..i'll stay here as long as I have to ...
Quote from: Jonathan Davis on 2004-07-12 11:42:26
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Mermaid
Sent: 12 July 2004 15:16
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: RE: virus: Fahrenheit 9/11
[Mermaid]Hey! I dont mind seeing it again...lets do a London Virian Fah911
bash?
[Jonathan] Mermaid you saucy wench! Canvassing for dates on at the CoV, who
would have thought it? :-)
I will give you call in the next few days and treat you to your second
helping of toxic propaganda.
Kind regards,
JD
---
To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
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Matt Arnold
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Re:Fahrenheit 9/11
« Reply #11 on: 2004-07-13 10:15:15 » |
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Quote from: Mermaid on 2004-07-12 11:00:34 You cant make someone a virian demon because he was a nazi..they have their own special place...i think revisiting the virian saints page should be enlightening...altho' i am not thrilled with the idea of 'demons'
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It's not because he was a Nazi. It's because Goebbels was a pioneer of undisputedly malicious manipulative propaganda. Isn't this the name that comes to mind when we look ahead to the worst that memetics could potentially become?
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He believed in a door. The door was the way to... to... The Door was The Way. Good. Capital letters were always the best way of dealing with things you didn't have a good answer to.
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rhinoceros
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My point is ...
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Re: virus: Re:Fahrenheit 9/11
« Reply #12 on: 2004-07-13 14:15:15 » |
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[Mermaid] You cant make someone a virian demon because he was a
nazi..they have their own special place...i think revisiting the virian
saints page should be enlightening...altho' i am not thrilled with the
idea of 'demons'
[Matt Arnold] It's not because he was a Nazi. It's because Goebbels was
a pioneer of undisputedly malicious manipulative propaganda.
[rhinoceros] Taking a look at history before and after WW2, at past and
contemporary politics and at the wonderful world of advertising, there
is a third possibility: Goebbels' special place in the pantheon of
demons is not due to any exceptional achievement but to the fact that
the Nazis lost the war.
As is usually the case, in spite of his masterful use of popular myths,
untrue rumors and playing to the fears and aspirations of the audience,
Herr Goebbels was most effective with those who were "ready" to believe.
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Mermaid
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Re:Fahrenheit 9/11
« Reply #13 on: 2004-07-13 14:50:20 » |
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"...but, for better or worse, it is the commentator who has the last word" - Vladimir Nabokov, Pale Fire.
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