Re:virus: sebby's g/f betrays him!!!
« on: 2003-12-31 15:27:08 »
...miss zloduska, i disagree. points: said kid DOES have other family...father, and brother of like age, said kid HAS been invited several times for a visit only to decline each and every time in favor of vid games or friends or tv. therefore, it has been established that on an 'importance' scale...seeing auntie for an afternoon wasnt exactly crucial. and in this scenario, our big trip was. therefore, i decided to favor our plans. a childs need and a childs whim are different things and i saw this as a definite 'whim'. i break it down as such...
in order of importance:
1. adults critical need(paying mortgage, staying alive, etc.) 2. childs need (it is assumed that kids dont have critical needs other than health) 3. adults needs 4. childs whimsy 5. adults whimsy 6. feeding a turtle
Oh Sebby, tsk tsk. If your brother/sister died and left behind a kid, you'd probably feel at least somewhat obligated to be their companion when they requested. Or at least you should feel that way, since it's the right thing to do. Rejection at such a young age is hard enough on children, but harder yet when it comes right after their own MOMMY dies and especially from an auntie related to her. Have a heart for christ's sakes! No, not cigar or another shot dear, I said HEART! Selfish bastard!
...thanks miss kristy for your faith ; ) actually, case in point...we got home, and about a week later she drives about 2hrs south to visit him and go to some school outing with him...comes home with him and what does he do?...he leaves to go hang out with his friends. so she hangs out with grandma and goes shopping etc. === but the point is; i was correct in my assumption that he doesnt really give a shit about 'hanging out' with her ect...they are painfully spoiled children. i believe i made the right call, and now i am even more certain of it. i would even go so far as to say they are down right rude often-times. anyhow.... i hope you are well miss kristy:) i finally figured out that your message was YOU!! i couldnt hear your name quite clearly, so forgive me if my return message was somewhat stranger-like
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Return message?!?! I didn't get any return message from you, at least I think... Hmm, odd. Are you sure you left one on my phone and didn't imagine it? I usually call back asap when I get a strange-sounding voice mail.
Is this the same g/f that you left Doctor chick for? Well, just to update you, I finally dumped my own g/f last year (I seem to recall it was about the same time as your g/f shuffle -- I think we talked about that). Now I'm on my second one since then. I've been dating the current one for about a month now. I dunno how long it will last. The one before her just couldn't seem to ever get around to divorcing her ex even though she claimed that she really wanted to. Dumb one on me, but fortunately I finally left her (or rather just stopped calling her). Anyway if this one doesn't work out, I'm thinking of taking a break from pursuing anyone as I have a lot of work to do this year to restart my law practice, and American women (even the ones who claim to not be high maintainence) just demand too much time and money for questionable return. Well, if it is good for you, I hope your current relationship lasts.
....thanks for the note dear jake. and i must say, from what ive experienced chickiewise, american women are the absolute worst deal going as far as cost+compromise+inflexibility+dimwittedness+trustworthyness vs. demands upon you. i'll give you an example....an american guy can go to brazil, meet a rather brilliant and sexy professional chick who will consider you a relative godsend even at your most moderate degree of manners and treatment due to the rather shitty way in which brasilian men treat the women there...essentially because american women are on the other end of the spectrum...meaning that they are basically the most spoiled and empowered females on the planet.
...the systems are alien, but they work well enough to create a happy situation between the relatively abused brazilian chick and the relatively abused american guy. clearly brazil is not the only country where the worlds most abused men might find stunning relief, so look around and take american gals with a grain of salt in the meantime. trust me on this.
...things are going very well with g/f here, but she's not your typical american gal. even so, you could find an equal situation in a matter of weeks elsewhere. this is the first american gal ive dated in 13 yrs. ...well the first decent one ever actually.
Is this the same g/f that you left Doctor chick for? Well, just to update you, I finally dumped my own g/f last year (I seem to recall it was about the same time as your g/f shuffle -- I think we talked about that). Now I'm on my second one since then. I've been dating the current one for about a month now. I dunno how long it will last. The one before her just couldn't seem to ever get around to divorcing her ex even though she claimed that she really wanted to. Dumb one on me, but fortunately I finally left her (or rather just stopped calling her). Anyway if this one doesn't work out, I'm thinking of taking a break from pursuing anyone as I have a lot of work to do this year to restart my law practice, and American women (even the ones who claim to not be high maintainence) just demand too much time and money for questionable return. Well, if it is good for you, I hope your current relationship lasts.
[Eric] There's a memetic advantage to having an empowered woman:
Empowered kids.
[Michelle] That's right, and also I know several American men who have no respect for other American men who look to "foreign" women exclusively: they feel they must be too weak to handle an empowered woman. It's the "easy route". I know that my own social bias is that if I see an American man with, say, an Asian woman, I assume that he must be a loser who can't take care of himself, given the often-correct reputation that Asian women are more submissive and coddling. I personally would never waste my considerable gifts on a man who couldn't stand up and hold his own. And I've been happily living for the past five years with an American man who would sooner die alone than be perceived (and perceive himself) as one who could only couple with a weak-willed coddler.
It's also interesting to note that many black Americans complain of black men seeking white women for the same reason - that they/we demand less and aren't as vocal or sassy as black women.
Then again, we all know that women in other cultures must be just as strong to handle the social treatment inherent in their part of the world. I think the issue is sneakyness (tongue in cheek on that term - perhaps subtlety is more diplomatic). A woman who's used to being second-guessed and criticized will simply assert her will in subliminal ways. Y'all men have no idea how much influence your partner can have over you without your noticing. That's in addition to the stuff you DO notice. Mwoohaahahahahahaaaa.
Have any of you guys ever tried how long you can stand being alone and not communicating with anyone at all?
You can really experience the power that memes have when they want or need to get out. - There's also some kind of "biological" builtin need to have company and communicate with people. - Otherwise you will begin to substitute them with plants and whatnot. - This is also why solitary confinement is so destructive to people's psyche. (As a side-fact they're soon releasing that Israeli guy who spilled the secrets on Israeli's nuke labs, who has been held in really crude solitary confinement for 20 years now?)
Anyways, I don't see why anyone would prefer being dominated to being the dominator in a relationship. - In western societies women are wanted. - They are free and get to do the choice. - Men on the other hand are more or less forced to compete for them (unless they're in the top 5% hunks or so.) -> Hence they can be dominated or dumped in western societies. - In less civilized places women really need the men, hence they take care of them.
Only when women begin to feel insecure in their chances of securing a man, will they submit to being dominated in western societies. I can see many advantages in non-american women. - Although it may be a matter of pride for some to dominate an american woman, - however real that domination then actually is, is another matter.
Speaking in crude generalities, of course, and naturally assuming that we all wish to rule our world.
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Michelle Anderson wrote:
> [Eric] There's a memetic advantage to having an empowered woman: > > Empowered kids. > > [Michelle] That's right, and also I know several American men who have > no respect for other American men who look to "foreign" women > exclusively: they feel they must be too weak to handle an empowered > woman. It's the "easy route". I know that my own social bias is that > if I see an American man with, say, an Asian woman, I assume that he > must be a loser who can't take care of himself, given the often-correct > reputation that Asian women are more submissive and coddling. I > personally would never waste my considerable gifts on a man who couldn't > stand up and hold his own. And I've been happily living for the past > five years with an American man who would sooner die alone than be > perceived (and perceive himself) as one who could only couple with a > weak-willed coddler. > > It's also interesting to note that many black Americans complain of > black men seeking white women for the same reason - that they/we demand > less and aren't as vocal or sassy as black women. > > Then again, we all know that women in other cultures must be just as > strong to handle the social treatment inherent in their part of the > world. I think the issue is sneakyness (tongue in cheek on that term - > perhaps subtlety is more diplomatic). A woman who's used to being > second-guessed and criticized will simply assert her will in subliminal > ways. Y'all men have no idea how much influence your partner can have > over you without your noticing. That's in addition to the stuff you DO > notice. Mwoohaahahahahahaaaa. > > > Michelle > > > --- > To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l> > --- To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
[Jei] Anyways, I don't see why anyone would prefer being dominated to being the dominator in a relationship. - In western societies women are wanted. - They are free and get to do the choice. - Men on the other hand are more or less forced to compete for them (unless they're in the top 5% hunks or so.) -> Hence they can be dominated or dumped in western societies. - In less civilized places women really need the men, hence they take care of them.
Only when women begin to feel insecure in their chances of securing a man, will they submit to being dominated in western societies. I can see many advantages in non-american women. - Although it may be a matter of pride for some to dominate an american woman, - however real that domination then actually is, is another matter.
Speaking in crude generalities, of course, and naturally assuming that we all wish to rule our world.
[Michelle] What about not dominating or be dominated but having an equal partnership? In my relationship, we each give lip service to the other's superficial needs to be perceived as dominant - ie, he does the car stuff, the heavy lifting, etc., even though I'm quite capable, and I do the kitchen stuff, the cleaning, the nurturing, even though he's quite capable, and we enjoy this little game we play - but then when it comes down to anything of importance, we are utter equals and bow to each other's areas of expertise and experience. It IS possible...
....Let me nip this in the bud. it's almost funny that everyone jumps to the cliche conclusion of the "passive and weak asian woman, submissive, quiet and cooperative". It's what i am accustomed to hearing from american women if i'm ever foolish enough to bring this subject up. but this is NOT what i was suggesting...in fact i cant stand women like that, to the point of being difficult to imagine even dating an asian gal anywhere since they almost always seem to be touched in some small way with these traits. please read my post accurately before suggesting such things.
....my favorite girlfriend was a french lawyer who was truly as empowered as they come - i'm trying to reintroduce my original point here; any "empowerment" american women have is not the problem, it's that all the typical benefits of such empowerment are useless when hitched with qualities of unaccountability, selfishness, self-righteousness, whininess, disloyalty and the severly annoying and useless "princess complex". in fact i dont find american women very empowered at all compared to europeans...or well heeled brazilians(my initial point(note the lack of mention of the asian cliche woman(as was also lacking in my original post))).
....there are very few katherine hepburns left in this country. maybe it's the media's fault, dunno. but I like to have a true and equitable partner in a woman, not someone aloof, whiny, and constantly demanding that everyone pretend she's some fallen princess angel and that i should count my lucky stars to be able to accomodate her every whim (or else).
[Eric] There's a memetic advantage to having an empowered woman:
Empowered kids.
[Michelle] That's right, and also I know several American men who have no respect for other American men who look to "foreign" women exclusively: they feel they must be too weak to handle an empowered woman. It's the "easy route". I know that my own social bias is that if I see an American man with, say, an Asian woman, I assume that he must be a loser who can't take care of himself, given the often-correct reputation that Asian women are more submissive and coddling. I personally would never waste my considerable gifts on a man who couldn't stand up and hold his own. And I've been happily living for the past five years with an American man who would sooner die alone than be perceived (and perceive himself) as one who could only couple with a weak-willed coddler.
It's also interesting to note that many black Americans complain of black men seeking white women for the same reason - that they/we demand less and aren't as vocal or sassy as black women.
Then again, we all know that women in other cultures must be just as strong to handle the social treatment inherent in their part of the world. I think the issue is sneakyness (tongue in cheek on that term - perhaps subtlety is more diplomatic). A woman who's used to being second-guessed and criticized will simply assert her will in subliminal ways. Y'all men have no idea how much influence your partner can have over you without your noticing. That's in addition to the stuff you DO notice. Mwoohaahahahahahaaaa.
Sebby, I feel defensive when I read your comments about how demanding American women are, seeing as I am one and stuff. I guess I wouldn't argue with a statement that started like "a lot of..." but a generalization that seems to imply "all" irks me. I have one husband and three Other Significants, and they've all said I'm fairly low-maintenance. Of course, I recognize that the content of the previous sentence already marks me as Not Typical. Still, I'd appreciate it if you'd consider phrasing statements from your experience as something like "All the American women I've gotten involved with romantically..." or something.
--Eva, being oh so demanding
PS: Alternatively, people can always take turns worshiping each other. That's fun too.
--- Dr Sebby <drsebby@hotmail.com> wrote: > ....Let me nip this in the bud. it's almost funny > that everyone jumps to > the cliche conclusion of the "passive and weak asian > woman, submissive, > quiet and cooperative". It's what i am accustomed > to hearing from american > women if i'm ever foolish enough to bring this > subject up. but this is NOT > what i was suggesting...in fact i cant stand women > like that, to the point > of being difficult to imagine even dating an asian > gal anywhere since they > almost always seem to be touched in some small way > with these traits. > please read my post accurately before suggesting > such things. > > ....my favorite girlfriend was a french lawyer who > was truly as empowered as > they come - i'm trying to reintroduce my original > point here; any > "empowerment" american women have is not the > problem, it's that all the > typical benefits of such empowerment are useless > when hitched with qualities > of unaccountability, selfishness, > self-righteousness, whininess, disloyalty > and the severly annoying and useless "princess > complex". in fact i dont > find american women very empowered at all compared > to europeans...or well > heeled brazilians(my initial point(note the lack of > mention of the asian > cliche woman(as was also lacking in my original > post))). > > ....there are very few katherine hepburns left in > this country. maybe it's > the media's fault, dunno. but I like to have a true > and equitable partner > in a woman, not someone aloof, whiny, and constantly > demanding that everyone > pretend she's some fallen princess angel and that i > should count my lucky > stars to be able to accomodate her every whim (or > else).
Yes, the debate has moved beyond Sebby's dilemma or lack thereof and become rather general. I hope no one takes offence at any of these remarks and instead we continue to refine our perceptions.
There are bad traits endemic in every society, and the only thing that makes it spicy and different is NOT being from your partner's society. Otherwise, by definition, you're going to run into the same old issues.
> [Jei] Anyways, I don't see why anyone would prefer being dominated > to being the dominator in a relationship. - In western societies women > are wanted. - They are free and get to do the choice. - Men on the other > hand are more or less forced to compete for them (unless they're in the > top 5% hunks or so.) -> Hence they can be dominated or dumped in western > societies. - In less civilized places women really need the men, hence > they take care of them. > > Only when women begin to feel insecure in their chances of securing a > man, will they submit to being dominated in western societies. I can see > many advantages in non-american women. - Although it may be a matter of > pride for some to dominate an american woman, > - however real that domination then actually is, is another matter. > > Speaking in crude generalities, of course, and naturally assuming that > we all wish to rule our world. > > [Michelle] What about not dominating or be dominated but having an equal > partnership? In my relationship, we each give lip service to the > other's superficial needs to be perceived as dominant - ie, he does the > car stuff, the heavy lifting, etc., even though I'm quite capable, and I > do the kitchen stuff, the cleaning, the nurturing, even though he's > quite capable, and we enjoy this little game we play - but then when it > comes down to anything of importance, we are utter equals and bow to > each other's areas of expertise and experience. It IS possible...
I agree, it can work, but then you would need to find your mate among those with the necessary intelligence and moral understanding of the concepts. - Which depend on upbringing, the social environment, personal values and experiences. In some places such people can be really rare birds. - Depends also where and how you look, I guess. - Also one can ponder if equality is a desirable feature for one's relationship? Aggressive behaviour attracts some females, instinctively looking for the big "pack leader" to whom they submit. - And I know some people who would rather be alone than submit to any man (or a woman) in anything. I guess it all depends on one's personality and finding the right fit. --- To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
> the media's fault, dunno. but I like to have a true and equitable partner > in a woman, not someone aloof, whiny, and constantly demanding that everyone > pretend she's some fallen princess angel and that i should count my lucky > stars to be able to accomodate her every whim (or else).
I think it's somehow a normal part of growing up that they haven't done. Maybe living alone for a year, far from their parents might do the trick of re-adjusting the perception of their status and place in the universe.
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...he leaves to go hang out with his friends. so she hangs out with 
