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Topic: virus: virus chat #virus de-opping (Read 2776 times) |
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kirksteele
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virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« on: 2003-10-17 14:53:06 » |
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Can anyone explain why the op list was trucated en extrimis and done so in an arbitrary manner and done so without public dislosure?
David "Lucifer" McFadzean, what do you know of this?
Have any other actions been taken without public disclosure?
Why is not this and other processes in a supposedly self governing body not been disclosed?
Is CoV or is CoV not to be a self governing body where people CANNOT run around in the back ground sniping and deleting "uncomfortable" bits for no one to see.
Or is there a paradigm shift afoot? "If we ignore it maybe the problem will go away." "If we AVOID the problem, there is no problem."
Hardly a Virian virtue. Sounds remarkably close to a Virian Sin.
"any thoughts ?"
kirksteele
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rhinoceros
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My point is ...
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Re:virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« Reply #1 on: 2003-10-17 17:43:17 » |
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[kirksteele]
Can anyone explain why the op list was trucated en extrimis and done so in an arbitrary manner and done so without public dislosure?
David "Lucifer" McFadzean, what do you know of this?
Have any other actions been taken without public disclosure?
Why is not this and other processes in a supposedly self governing body not been disclosed?
[rhinoceros]
I don't think I know why or whether the IRC operator list was trucatedit. But I couldn't explain it either when I, for example, was first made an operator in IRC. I just thought it was either a courtesy or I was expected to help things run smothly by wearing that badge while I was there.
There were no procedures at all at that time. Just the fact that everything resides in a PC on Lucifer's desktop, plus the assumption that the only concern we all have is to make this place run and evolve. In Lucifer's case, this assumption was also supported by the fact that he pays the bills.
[kirksteele]
Is CoV or is CoV not to be a self governing body where people CANNOT run around in the back ground sniping and deleting "uncomfortable" bits for no one to see.
[rhinoceros]
Heh... this sounds serious. "People running around in the back ground sniping and deleting 'uncomfortable' bits for no one to see?"
Doh... My mistake. You only said "to be a ... where people CANNOT" do all these things. You didn't say that they have been doing these things, isn't it? You only said that they *might* have been doing them.
So yes, I think CoV is to be such a body. I can see a lot of work towards that direction recently, involving rule making, the Meridion, getting people to make decisions, laying out goals and projects, etc. I assume there has always been some decision making, although it was done by arbitrary assignment until now.
[kirksteele]
Or is there a paradigm shift afoot? "If we ignore it maybe the problem will go away." "If we AVOID the problem, there is no problem."
Hardly a Virian virtue. Sounds remarkably close to a Virian Sin.
"any thoughts ?"
[rhinoceros]
From what I said, yes, there seems to be a paradigm shift, a rather positive one. The Meridion, for example, already managed to solve a problem which had been with us for years, just by showing clearly to the offender that what he had been doing was seen as disreputable here.
But you obviously didn't mean that. Can you be more specific? How does this new paradigm make us more susceptible to ignoring problems? You must have something in mind which was not dealt with as it would have before the "paradigm shift."
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metahuman
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Re:virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« Reply #2 on: 2003-10-17 17:58:04 » |
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kirksteele:
Explain why you banned me from #rats while I was asleep, you sad sack of shit.
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David Lucifer
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Enlighten me.
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Re: virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« Reply #3 on: 2003-10-17 21:06:40 » |
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There were valid reasons to remove you from the op list of the #virus =
channel. Are you sure you want to discuss this on the mailing list?
David
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Kirk Steele=20
To: virus@lucifer.com=20
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 11:53 AM
Subject: virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
Can anyone explain why the op list was trucated en extrimis and done =
so in an arbitrary manner and done so without public dislosure?
David "Lucifer" McFadzean, what do you know of this?
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Lukian The Wizard
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Striving for Singularity
    
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Re:virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« Reply #4 on: 2003-10-18 12:57:43 » |
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Having an op on a channel is a privilege, especially an auto-op,
if you misuse that privilege, your auto-op status may be removed without warning.
This is standard IRC procedure and is in no way exclusive to the running of the CoV.
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Cassidy McGurk
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Re:virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« Reply #5 on: 2003-10-18 16:00:14 » |
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er... so what was the valid reason whyI was removed?
btw is there a virus bbs rss feed?
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kirksteele
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Re: virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« Reply #6 on: 2003-10-19 19:03:56 » |
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From: "David McFadzean" <david@lucifer.com>
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:06:40 -0700
There were valid reasons to remove you from the op list of the #virus channel. Are you sure you want to discuss this on the mailing list?
David
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Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:00:15 -0600
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re:virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
From: "irvken" <hidden@lucifer.com>
er... so what was the valid reason whyI was removed?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let us put some more facts on the table at the time of their occurrence.
First stipulate the given: None of this has entered the forum domain for public consideration.
Mermaid chased Hermit into a “previously agreed upon by both parties” private haven, for Hermit that is #rats.
Hermit asked her to leave as she was in violation of the convention. She persisted. He kbanned her. She went back to #virus where she began defamatory chat against him. He noticed this. He called her on it in forum. She persisted. He kbanned her there. Somebody objected and summarily unbanned her against the stricture of the “immediate action” precepts of DiP and Wiki protocol.
All the while Lucifer is chatting Hermit. All the while Lucifer is aware of what is going on. All the while Lucifer decidedly avoids intervention.
When Lucifer is called on this avoidant behavior, he is informed that a third party will put a cease to the hostilities and does so. The response included “…fine, I’m out of here…”
Now let’s discuss it.
From: "David McFadzean" <david@lucifer.com>
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:06:40 -0700
There were valid reasons to remove you from the op list of the #virus channel. Are you sure you want to discuss this on the mailing list?
David
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Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:00:15 -0600
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re:virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
From: "irvken" <hidden@lucifer.com>
er... so what was the valid reason whyI was removed?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let us put some more facts on the table at the time of their occurrence.
First stipulate the given: None of this has entered the forum domain for public consideration.
Mermaid chased Hermit into a “previously agreed upon by both parties” private haven, for Hermit that is #rats.
Hermit asked her to leave as she was in violation of the convention. She persisted. He kbanned her. She went back to #virus where she began defamatory chat against him. He noticed this. He called her on it in forum. She persisted. He kbanned her there. Somebody objected and summarily unbanned her against the stricture of the “immediate action” precepts of DiP and Wiki protocol.
All the while Lucifer is chatting Hermit. All the while Lucifer is aware of what is going on. All the while Lucifer decidedly avoids intervention.
When Lucifer is called on this avoidant behavior, he is informed that a third party will put a cease to the hostilities and does so. The response included “…fine, I’m out of here…”
Now let’s discuss it.
David McFadzean <david@lucifer.com> wrote: There were valid reasons to remove you from the op list of the #virus channel. Are you sure you want to discuss this on the mailing list?
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Kirk Steele
To: virus@lucifer.com
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 11:53 AM
Subject: virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
Can anyone explain why the op list was trucated en extrimis and done so in an arbitrary manner and done so without public dislosure?
David "Lucifer" McFadzean, what do you know of this?
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kirksteele
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Re: virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« Reply #7 on: 2003-10-19 19:03:33 » |
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From: "David McFadzean" <david@lucifer.com>
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:06:40 -0700
There were valid reasons to remove you from the op list of the #virus channel. Are you sure you want to discuss this on the mailing list?
David
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:00:15 -0600
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re:virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
From: "irvken" <hidden@lucifer.com>
er... so what was the valid reason whyI was removed?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let us put some more facts on the table at the time of their occurrence.
First stipulate the given: None of this has entered the forum domain for public consideration.
Mermaid chased Hermit into a “previously agreed upon by both parties” private haven, for Hermit that is #rats.
Hermit asked her to leave as she was in violation of the convention. She persisted. He kbanned her. She went back to #virus where she began defamatory chat against him. He noticed this. He called her on it in forum. She persisted. He kbanned her there. Somebody objected and summarily unbanned her against the stricture of the “immediate action” precepts of DiP and Wiki protocol.
All the while Lucifer is chatting Hermit. All the while Lucifer is aware of what is going on. All the while Lucifer decidedly avoids intervention.
When Lucifer is called on this avoidant behavior, he is informed that a third party will put a cease to the hostilities and does so. The response included “…fine, I’m out of here…”
Now let’s discuss it.
David McFadzean <david@lucifer.com> wrote:There were valid reasons to remove you from the op list of the #virus channel. Are you sure you want to discuss this on the mailing list?
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Kirk Steele
To: virus@lucifer.com
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 11:53 AM
Subject: virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
Can anyone explain why the op list was trucated en extrimis and done so in an arbitrary manner and done so without public dislosure?
David "Lucifer" McFadzean, what do you know of this?
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kirksteele
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Re:virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« Reply #8 on: 2003-10-19 19:12:35 » |
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hmmm. Arg ad. Hom. Interesting first choice........ Consistent, I'll grant you that.
read the rest of the replies as well, but they were unecessary. This one suffices.
Consider the possibility of a meta exercise in meta behavior that can be used as a point of illustration on another channel.
kirksteele
metahuman <hidden@lucifer.com> wrote:
[kirksteele]
Explain why you banned me from #rats while I was asleep, you sad sack of shit.
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This message was posted by metahuman to the Virus 2003 board on Church of Virus BBS.
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metahuman
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Re:virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« Reply #9 on: 2003-10-19 19:48:03 » |
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Consider the possibility that you are rightless to make demands or suggestions of considerations. Unfortunately, you ignored this thread on the BBS which would be titled "kirksteele" on the mailing list. Since you decided to reply here with a prickish attitude, I withdraw my apology, and re-enter you into my hate list (aka. shitlist, blacklist).
As forgiving as I was of your newbish behavior on IRC, I am just as easily quickened to hate of your consistently obnoxious behavior. You may have been registered on these forums or in the mailing list for a long time, but these are the first times I've seen your screen alias this active. Since your initial posts here were basically: 1. whining about being deopped, and 2. calling for disclosure of the Hermit/Mermaid situation (which has been going on for years), I must say that you are abundantly more annoying than {Joe Dees' posting rampage}, {Hermit's "I am your god. Bow before me." behavior} {David's "Let Hermit do the destruction so I can appear as the savior when I clean it up." attitude}, and {Mermaid's promotion of her primary goal in life (to reproduce) and of jealousy as a benefit}... combined.
It is considerably more immature to constantly point out what is an ad hominem than to actually be the origin of the ad hominem, which is why I tire of David's "punishments" and Hermit's declarations of war. Obviously, it was an ad hominem, and needed no pointing out. For the same reason I don't like people telling me what's going to happen next in a movie, I don't like people pointing out the obvious only to appear "intelligent" and "in the right."
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rhinoceros
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Re:virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« Reply #10 on: 2003-10-20 00:40:39 » |
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[kirksteele]
Let us put some more facts on the table at the time of their occurrence.
First stipulate the given: None of this has entered the forum domain for public consideration.
[rhinoceros]
It seems the forum was not lucky enough to avoid being dragged into this. That was also Hermit's concern when he wrote the much debated "Disciplinary Process" document. We had better do it right this time.
[kirksteele]
Mermaid chased Hermit into a “previously agreed upon by both parties” private haven, for Hermit that is #rats.
[rhinoceros]
"Mermaid chased Hermit": I have been hearing many strange things about the Mermaid in the last one and a half year that I am around but I never stop being amazed. I never got answers too, so I stopped asking. How do you chase someone in an IRC channel... and Hermit of all people...
"Previously agreed private haven": Who told kirksteele about that agreement? I have been talking with both Hermit and Mermaid and nobody mentioned it. The only thing I heard was that #rats is a political project of Hermit's, not directly associated with #virus. Is kirksteele saying that what Hermit created was a haven to keep himself safe from the Mermaid? Did either Hermit or Mermaid tell kirksteele, or did he make this up? Kirksteele should speak. We'll understand.
[kirksteele]
Hermit asked her to leave as she was in violation of the convention. She persisted. He kbanned her. She went back to #virus where she began defamatory chat against him. He noticed this. He called her on it in forum. She persisted. He kbanned her there. Somebody objected and summarily unbanned her against the stricture of the “immediate action” precepts of DiP and Wiki protocol.
[rhinoceros]
Everything about the incident (except the "convention" and the "DiP and Wiki protocols", of course) is still in the IRC logs of #virus, October 7, between 22:00 and 23:00. Or at least the true version of what kirksteele has been authoring here.
[kirksteele]
All the while Lucifer is chatting Hermit. All the while Lucifer is aware of what is going on. All the while Lucifer decidedly avoids intervention.
When Lucifer is called on this avoidant behavior, he is informed that a third party will put a cease to the hostilities and does so. The response included “…fine, I’m out of here…”
[rhinoceros]
Kirksteele should consider the possibility that Lucifer is not interested in playing the role which he would like to assign him.
That said, what Lucifer was doing was not plain vanilla chatting. An "official complaint" was issued, and it was being handled by a committee (pretty much like what Hermit had suggested in his "Disciplinary Action" document), which heard everything and made a decision. I know because I was there, and I think it was fruitul. There will be an announcement.
[kirksteele]
Now let’s discuss it.
[rhinoceros]
I can help. Kirksteele forgot to make the logical connection between this story and his lost operator privileges in #virus. Wasn't that his initial concern?
I wish lots of fun to both kirksteele and metavirus. Hopefully, they can let off some steam somewhere else and be back here for a more interesting discussion whenever they feel secure.
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David Lucifer
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Re: virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« Reply #11 on: 2003-10-20 00:52:31 » |
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> When Lucifer is called on this avoidant behavior, he is informed that a third party will put a cease to the hostilities and does
so. The response included ".fine, I'm out of here."
> Now let's discuss it.
Kirk, your message is so incoherent I don't see any point in responding.
David
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kirksteele
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Re: virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« Reply #12 on: 2003-10-20 14:30:43 » |
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[David McFadzean]
> When Lucifer is called on this avoidant behavior, he is informed that a third party will put a cease to the hostilities and does
so. The response included ".fine, I'm out of here."
> Now let's discuss it.
Kirk, your message is so incoherent I don't see any point in responding.
David
[kirk] thank you for another itteration of the "I'm outta here" lament.
More avoidant behavior. Consistent as well.
The statement is coherent, is parse-able. I was just curious to see who would do it in your stead. Thank you rhinoceros for providing proof of David's reluctance to participate in the protocol he would have others do for himself.
David, this IS your sand box. You can close up shop when you feel aggrieved, as you have threatened to do in the past on several occasions. This is the root of why any responsible owner/root must recuse themself from participation in the forum. Your ego is tempting your responses. Again, your sandbox, if you don't like something you can shut it down and point the finger at someone else. More incipiently, you can merely obviate the forum through neglect.
You can invite participation through the process of alleged self determinism. But when it comes time for you to apply these precepts, you balk, you run, you say "I'm outta here."
When you go, please remember it is you that will be taking the sandbox with you. No one will be forcing you to leave. No one will be pulling the Great White Plug on CoV other than you. Your behavior has followed a describable pattern David, as easily to describe as Mermaid's. And it has predictable consequence. Your consistent inconsistency has the force of preventing the process which you invited to take place, the participation of all members to self determine their self governance in this forum. You are hypocritical in your predictable avoidance.
Like others in the past this point has become all too salient for meaningful dialogue. Like others in the past, prime denizens has left in a nonplussed despondence over how they allowed themselves to remain in this forum for as long as they did.
There has been a prime example of this in the past two weeks. A highly respected member and primary contributor to this forum has left. This person’s reasons are their own; but I have the suspicion that this person’s departure is for the reasons that I just mentioned.
David, you have a comfortable cadre of yes men, and woman. They repeatedly sacrifice themselves for you. And they know not that they do it, or why. But since that I have now quantumly popped this quamf or quark; let the cat out of Heisenberg's box, I suspect they will invoke vaccimes following this post.
Consider yourself among the lucky to have so many willing followers Father David.
Cheers
kirksteele.
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David Lucifer
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Re: virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« Reply #13 on: 2003-10-20 14:51:59 » |
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Kirk Steele wrote:
> More avoidant behavior. Consistent as well.
I do not find your attempt to psychoanalyze me the least bit amusing. Your
accusations are so full of misinformation and innuendo that I am forced
to give you a strongly negative rating. I see I am not the first one to
do so. If your reputation drops much more I will not hesitate to protect
this forum against your attempts to ruin it.
David
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kirksteele
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Re: virus: virus chat #virus de-opping
« Reply #14 on: 2003-10-20 15:08:24 » |
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Prime vaccime.
David McFadzean <david@lucifer.com> wrote:Kirk Steele wrote:
> More avoidant behavior. Consistent as well.
I do not find your attempt to psychoanalyze me the least bit amusing. Your
accusations are so full of misinformation and innuendo that I am forced
to give you a strongly negative rating. I see I am not the first one to
do so. If your reputation drops much more I will not hesitate to protect
this forum against your attempts to ruin it.
David
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