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   Author  Topic: Souls  (Read 3682 times)
Hermit
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Re:Souls
« Reply #30 on: 2003-04-27 17:30:54 »
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p1 A turing machine can perform any computable task*.
p2 A human being is not able to perform any non-computable task. -> s2. Human beings perform only computable tasks.

p1.p2 -> s3 A human being could be replaced by a turing machine.

Given that a human is no more than a meat based turing machine, any other implementation running program "Human" would not require anything other than an appropriately programmed turing machine to completely emulate the biological hardware usually running the "Human" emulation wetware. So the actual "recreation" of a biological stimulus/feedback mechanism would be a redundant complication. In other words, if a particular biological process has the effect of e.g. modifying processing to reflect an adrenaline rush as a result of a "pain stimulus" (merely the transmission of an chemical/electrical signal) in a biologically based "Human" system, then the silicon implementation would not need to do more than to modify its processing to achieve the same end results in response to the same "pain stimulus" without the complications of biology as the actual mechanisms involved are completely unimportant in establishing a modification of the outputs of the neural net which is all that is relevant and needful to completely emulate the "Human" system.

The question I would ask is whether it would be appropriate to limit such a program by building in the aberations, inconsistancies and limitations (performance, reliability and capacity) of the biologcal hardware. I would suggest that ethically, the answer is no. Thus it seems probable that the non-biological implementation of "Human" will greatly outstrip the capabilities of the biological versions.

As regards to how we could "capture" the wetware of a person at a particualr instant of time, it seems that a number of processes could be used. The one I suspect is closest to being realizable would rely on the "infection" of a person with a genetically engineered virus, attracted to neural tissue. The virus would carry either a processor, capable of communicating via an RF network or, more simply, could contain a tuned circuit which would allow an external process to query the condition of each nerve individually. After a moderate period of time evaluating the effects of external stimuli on the biologcal mesh, a self tuning neural system residing in silicon and designed to mimic the results of the biological neural mesh in software would produce results indistinguishable from the human object of study. At which point a "logical clone" would exist even though the exact processes involved need not be fully comprehended.

A more advanced technique, more dependent on other possible developments (such as a molecular "santa claus" machine and "nanobots" capable of molecular analysis), but offering the potential of a great deal more analytic examination, would be to dissassemble a human a molecule at a time, simultaneously recreating it in biological form (i.e. a transporter cloner) while capturing the exact state of that human in a storage system. This would allow the creation at any subsequent time of multiple clones of the test subject (as complete adult humans in biological form), with the potential to inject minor differences into these clones, allowing us to analyze exactly the effect of these changes on the human test subject. It should be noted that although this approach potentially offers the ability to learn a great deal more about what makes us tick, it is completely uneccessary if our objective is merely to "clone" ourselves in hardware, when the former approach (very close to being implementable - I'd suggest between 10 and 50 years from now) should be quite sufficient for all practical purposes.

Of course, it appears to be very much easier to produce entirely artificial self-aware, self-evolving, neural meshes which achieve better than human results, without the complication of analyzing humans, and with none of our limitations, which may well make such analysis (and humans) completely redundant before any of the above happens.

Hermit

*Turing machines can (and have) been implemented in many forms, from the quantum level to the basic mechanical - and including the biological.
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Re:Souls (Just an Excuse for me to Talk about My Lonely Love Life)
« Reply #31 on: 2003-04-28 03:55:01 »
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Re:Souls
« Reply #32 on: 2003-04-28 11:35:22 »
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Quote from: boygoboom on 2003-04-27 14:41:01   

That isn't possible, without making a true clone (physiology, biochemistry, etc.).

Everything that you go on to mention can theoretically be simulated as far as I know.  Maybe you know of some theoretical limitation of computer simulations that you would like to share with the rest of us?
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Re:Souls
« Reply #33 on: 2003-04-28 16:00:47 »
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Re:Souls
« Reply #34 on: 2003-04-28 16:16:05 »
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Re:Souls
« Reply #35 on: 2003-04-28 20:47:05 »
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Re:Souls
« Reply #36 on: 2003-04-28 21:54:44 »
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Re:Souls
« Reply #37 on: 2003-05-07 13:54:55 »
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David Lucifer
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Re:Souls
« Reply #38 on: 2003-05-07 15:43:02 »
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Quote from: Shannon on 2003-04-28 21:54:44   

I also disagree with David Lucifer concerning the possibility of achieving human immortality through computers. That sounds very naive and I must admit I expected more from him.

Actually I said the opposite.
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Re:Souls
« Reply #39 on: 2003-05-07 21:58:06 »
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« Last Edit: 2003-05-07 22:08:40 by boygoboom » Report to moderator   Logged

>-n-e-l-s-o-n-<


The chains of life are forged in definition. We've become slaves to our convictions. Freedom lies in disinvention.
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