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   Author  Topic: This is for you..yes..YOU.  (Read 9057 times)
Mermaid
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This is for you..yes..YOU.
« on: 2006-11-21 21:17:27 »
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you know i am talking to YOU...

I havent seen anything as cruel, sad or utterly depraved as this in a very very very long time..i think my heart just broke into a million pieces...what is wrong with this fucking world.


link
« Last Edit: 2006-11-21 21:18:37 by Mermaid » Report to moderator   Logged
Walter Watts
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Re:This is for you..yes..YOU.
« Reply #1 on: 2006-11-21 23:04:15 »
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How do you decide where your tears are shed Mermaid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zm8LFmxVWE

or this?

http://www.walterwatts.com/images/091101newyorktimes.pdf



Just curious.


Walter

« Last Edit: 2006-11-21 23:15:14 by Walter Watts » Report to moderator   Logged

Walter Watts
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Re:This is for you..yes..YOU.
« Reply #2 on: 2006-11-22 00:38:58 »
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Re:This is for you..yes..YOU.
« Reply #3 on: 2006-11-22 01:53:10 »
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Quote from: Walter Watts on 2006-11-21 23:04:15   
How do you decide where your tears are shed Mermaid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zm8LFmxVWE

or this?

http://www.walterwatts.com/images/091101newyorktimes.pdf



Just curious.


Walter





"irmi.."
[..]
"Want water? Keep runnin'"


what kind of an ass wipe are you? you are equating terrorism with an fucktard making children run for a bottle of water in the desert?

eta: and you too salamatis....there is something depraved when one tries to justify callousness directed at children. cliched as this may sound, it does throw light on a certain kind of person who is the scum of the earth.

and both of you are defending someone like this. just fucking brilliant. and some people think suicide bombers blow themselves for 72 virgins in heaven...[sub][/sub]
« Last Edit: 2006-11-22 02:01:49 by Mermaid » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #4 on: 2006-11-22 02:16:41 »
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it is also interesting that the two people who replied saw it fit to see a soldier as a representative of the united states and thereby equate their action, taunting a child to run behind a truck for a bottle of water in a country whose drinking water has recently been under sanctions, as a rightful response to an act of terrorism. i saw the soldier as an example of human scum..him being responsible for his actions while you two saw his actions as a rightful payback for what happened on 911. interesting. considering iraqis had nothing to do with 911. NOBODY GETS THIS!

here is another one > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdpoiazTyDc&NR

another brave one lamenting the fact that the military forbids them from engaging children throwing rocks at the truck. enjoy.
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Re:This is for you..yes..YOU.
« Reply #5 on: 2006-11-22 02:19:48 »
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Dear Walter,

I'd suggest that these events are not related except in nastiness. Don't forget, the people allegedly behind 911 were Saudis and Yemenis, our rather nasty despotic allies in the Middle East. Not the poor Iraqis nor even the Afghans.

911 was of course consequent on a lot of things. But mainly, I think, on this.



Israel, founded only because of British need for Jewish money in WW I, Zionist terrorism at a time when Britain could not afford it in the 20s through mid-forties, and mainly because it appealed to a handful of influential American voters who didn't have a clue about the Middle East in the 1940s. Our involvement in enabling this decision has left millions of people dead, disabled, impoverished and vulnerable to ethnic cleansing any time our genocidal "ally" chooses to squeeze them. Perhaps this is worth a tear.

Every Palestinian, including Palestinians living in Israel, has close family members who have been badly affected by our bad choices. Naturally those having a memetic infection in common, the Islamics, from the most sophisticated to the most tribal, perceive the US as having initiated, enabled and supported this genocide, and having the power to stop Israel at any time. Yet see us as choosing not to. Are they really wrong? Perhaps this is worth a tear.

I am amazed we have not seen more terrorism intended to make us change our minds. Fortunately cooler counsel appears to have prevailed amongst those most injured by our bad choices. We are being encouraged to rethink our support. Until recently, the door to finding an accommodation was not closed. So we avoided attacks. We now seem to be announcing that we will support Israel no matter how much genocide and ethnic cleansing they engage in, and that we will prevent appropriate responses from International bodies we once were proud to have established to prevent this. Perhaps this is worth a tear.

The fact that our current choices eliminating hope for others are quite likely to result in many more attacks on ourselves. Perhaps this is worth a tear.

Of course, it isn't just the Palestine any more. That kid in the video is one of the lucky ones. He is still alive and able to run. It is guaranteed that he knew people that can't. We know that the surplus deaths in Iraq during the sanctions era ran somewhere between 1 and 2 million. The surplus deaths now that we have invaded them have added another 650,000 (limits 300,000 to 900,000). From being the most advanced Islamic Middle Eastern state, Iraq is now effectively without infrastructure or a way to rebuild it. Even if it does not gain these people anything but satisfaction, hurting Americans probably holds some appeal to many of them. Between our own ineptitude and that of our allies, with a little help from our enemies, we are seen, correctly, to be vulnerable. So it really is tragic to realize that we have vast numbers of Americans in Iraq today, most of them apparently hard at work, as the idiots on that truck were, to ensure that the next generation of Iraqis have even better reason to hate us. Perhaps this is worth a tear.

In so far as our injuries are self-inflicted consequences to our projection of nastiness and hurt upon others, they are far less deserving of tears than deliberate nastiness to children. Whether this is because it says too much about our attitude towards less than brilliantly white children, or just Iraqi children, or even to all children, or whether it merely speaks to the stupidity of making enemies instead of being professional, even if incapable of making friends, the video was, I think deserving of at least a moment of silence at its awesome stupidity as well as sadness for the degree of fucked up mindset that will likely be returning here to the US, to an uncertain future, but with some probability that it will breed. How well do you think its own offspring will do under such circumstances? Perhaps this is worth a tear.

Now consider that viewed as a mortality issue, 911 didn't even affect the statistics enough to show up on an annualized basis. I knew only 4 people who died in 911. How many did you know? Living in America, I have more reason to be worried of dying of bee stings than of terrorists. Or that was the case until we decided to abandon law and treaties, to make all the world our enemy, and dispense with our own illusions of freedom to counter the perceived threat. I say perceived because, while spectacular, the actual impact of 911 on America has not been made by terrorists but by Americans. Just think. More Americans are killed each week of cars - or smoking related causes - than all the Americans who have ever died of terrorism related causes. Yet we did not declare war on cars or tobacco - or their makers - or tear up the constitution to protect us from them. Why ever not? If there was no need in those vastly more expensive self inflicted harms, then why the need for this reaction when attacked by others? Maybe this too is worth a tear.

But these are all intellectualized tears. An adult choosing to deliberately hurt a child for the gratification of a video camera is something else entirely.

Kind Regards

Hermit
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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Re:This is for you..yes..YOU.
« Reply #6 on: 2006-11-22 02:46:56 »
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we are actually dealing with two individuals who just proved why war is a terrible thing. here they are, willing to swallow..lock, stock and barrel..the ugliness of this human being in a kevlar jacket and army boots. and oh..he carries a m16 carbine too...just because he is american. just because of 911, walter watts and joe salamantis dees are BLIND to the actions of individuals who find amusement in teasing a child...dear worms, thank you for letting us know how war facilitates the divorce between humanity and humans.

DID YOU VOTE?
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Re:This is for you..yes..YOU.
« Reply #7 on: 2006-11-22 10:30:01 »
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All I did was ask you a simple question out of curiosity Mermaid.

I didn't say EITHER act was justified.

I also didn't resort to ad hominem name calling.

I made no judgements about anyone.

I was simply curious about how we as compassionate human beings can even begin to apportion blame and/or sorrow in the face of irrationality coming from all directions in the world.



Walter

PS-As always.
Enjoyed the fascinating civil discourse with you Mermaid.

[Mermaid]
"what kind of an ass wipe are you? you are equating terrorism with an fucktard making children run for a bottle of water in the desert?

eta: and you too salamatis....there is something depraved when one tries to justify callousness directed at children. cliched as this may sound, it does throw light on a certain kind of person who is the scum of the earth."

[Mermaid-2]
"it is also interesting that the two people who replied saw it fit to see a soldier as a representative of the united states and thereby equate their action, taunting a child to run behind a truck for a bottle of water in a country whose drinking water has recently been under sanctions, as a rightful response to an act of terrorism. i saw the soldier as an example of human scum..him being responsible for his actions while you two saw his actions as a rightful payback for what happened on 911. interesting. considering iraqis had nothing to do with 911. NOBODY GETS THIS!"

[Mermaid-3]
"we are actually dealing with two individuals who just proved why war is a terrible thing. here they are, willing to swallow..lock, stock and barrel..the ugliness of this human being in a kevlar jacket and army boots. and oh..he carries a m16 carbine too...just because he is american. just because of 911, walter watts and joe salamantis dees are BLIND to the actions of individuals who find amusement in teasing a child...dear worms, thank you for letting us know how war facilitates the divorce between humanity and humans."

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« Reply #8 on: 2006-11-22 11:57:55 »
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walter, i have known you for way too long to know what you mean when you hit the keys. and your first instinct was to bring up 911.

but thanks for playing for the audience!
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Re:This is for you..yes..YOU.
« Reply #9 on: 2006-11-22 12:31:15 »
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"you are equating terrorism with an fucktard making children run for a bottle of water in the desert?"

[Blunderov] I don't know who wrote this and it's not important. Both acts are acts of opression; that is to say: acts of power over those who have little or no power to defend themselves. Perhaps one is petit mal and the other grand mal but no other useful distinction suggests itself to me at the moment; the disease is the same.

A story from the depths of apartheid. It used to be considered great style to take the Blue Train to Cape Town for one's holidays. The luxury of the Blue Train was reknowned. Real silver in the dining carriage. Excellent menu and a fine cellar (if a train could be said to have such a thing). And there was fine sport to be had too.

This consisted of using a cigarette lighter to heat up small coins to red heat and then tossing them to the mendicant black children who habitually congregated at the rural stations and maintainance sidings at which the Blue Train called. The children would snatch the coins nonetheless, hoping to be the first to be able to bear the pain and retain it for themself.

To be fair, by no means everyone did this*; decent persons were inclined to throw sweets or unheated coins. A steely-eyed Kantian might perhaps suggest that there is very little moral distinction to be drawn between these cases.

*As is, I expect, the case with America in Iraq.
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« Reply #10 on: 2006-11-22 13:48:35 »
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Quote from: Blunderov on 2006-11-22 12:31:15   
"you are equating terrorism with an fucktard making children run for a bottle of water in the desert?"

[Blunderov] I don't know who wrote this and it's not important. Both acts are acts of opression; that is to say: acts of power over those who have little or no power to defend themselves. Perhaps one is petit mal and the other grand mal but no other useful distinction suggests itself to me at the moment; the disease is the same.


i have never seen the terrorism of 911 or the terrorism of suicide bombing in that light...as 'acts of oppression'

'an act of power over those who have little or no power to defend themselves.'

given that it was 911 that was compared to the soldier taunting the children with water, do you still think its a case of grand mal and petit mal.

eta: i am just tired of braindead americans..in this case..you know who..bringing up 911 all the fucking time. it is absolutely no comparison. these creatures are so full of it and self involved in their own imagined tragedy..and likely the least affected by 911..sitting in front of their televisions watching fox tv trying to inflate their 'pain' by condoning the actions of individual depravity. the most interesting thing for me is that i never thought of 911 or usa. the first thing that registered was that the soldier was out of line...and that he was breaking rules of engagement. but then again, for some others it is about in the same line as 911 and thereby making it acceptable.

anyone responding other than one communicating that the actions of those soldiers are morally lacking is getting judged by me. harshly. there is no other 'right' comparison. why are we even comparing again? and why are we comparing apples and oranges?
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Re:This is for you..yes..YOU.
« Reply #11 on: 2006-11-22 14:56:49 »
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I agree completely with Blunderov's assessment that the Blue Train is one of the most luxurious train journeys of the world (Rovos Rail, Blue Train, Royal Scotsman, Royal Orient, possibly in that order), providing not only gastronomic delight and undoubtedly some of the most magnificent service available anywhere in the world, but it also provides scenery which puts even that other great (but far from luxurious) train journey, the Trans Siberian, to shame.

Despite family ties, I'm probably not biased when I say that Rovos Rail, which provides similar service and meals, but in historic coaches drawn by steam engines through even more exotic scenery, is even better. My personal favorite is the run up the coast through the Garden Route and Knysna and on up to George and then back through Worcester and the Mountains of the Boland, which is in my opinion, even more beautiful than the hinterland.

Blunderov is unfortunately also correct about the 'hot coin' trick, although I would imagine that it was (possibly still is) more prevalent on the everyday trains with their seething masses of unwashed people. Another well known train riding "amusement" was to piss in "Mountain Dew" bottles and hand those out to the ever eager pikinins. I have noticed that people dump cooldrink bottles of piss at reststops here too. Unthinking or funny? Who knows. But none of this had a patch on the delight at the reaction of a Cape Black Backed Seagull swooping down onto what it thought was a tomato skin, a sardine or possibly a scrap of bacon only to discover that it was swallowing a burning cigarette stump. This was a "traditional" amusement at IIRC the Camps Bay hotel (or whichever hotel is in that vicinity with a magnificent breakfast room looking down onto a neighboring cove).

Like its close relation, stupidity, cruelty is apparently both universal and in unlimited supply.

Kind Regards

Hermit
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Re:This is for you..yes..YOU.
« Reply #12 on: 2006-11-22 16:07:39 »
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« Reply #13 on: 2006-11-22 16:13:33 »
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