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Topic: virus: When! (Read 560 times) |
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deadletter-j
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virus: When!
« on: 2005-02-09 16:13:34 » |
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Ooh! I like it!
I definitely think about memes in terms of 'when do I layer in the next bit...'
Okay, let me stack up a meme complex
1) The heart of the new everything that we are talking about is
Meta
2) What is meta?
The computing dictionary lists a definition of :
meta: a prefix meaning one level removed in complexity. If 'X' is some concept, then 'meta-X' is data about or processes operating on that concept.
3) What is it good for?
a) It's very, very good for describing the direction/manner by which people cascade up from their first exposure to a concept all the way to membots.
I'm very specifically not putting the cascade construct in - I'll allude to it (metadata), and then if you are interested, we can talk about it in a separate post.
b) It's a synthetic direction - as yet, it doesn't have any negative associations, such as "leftist" or "republican".
The plumber is meta. The bus driver is meta. All of the people who make cities actually run are meta. It's an identity that we can share with everyone trying to help. The part of us that keeps us alive while driving on acid is meta. A principal is meta to a school. The students are meta to a school. A single student is meta to a school. The parents are meta. The teachers are the most commonly articulated meta.
c) It's about self-reflection - bringing people into contact with their own memetic output begins to get them to modulate that output. Since that changes the input into the communal conversational system, the entire system changes. It's making use of gossip. It's making use of blushing. It's making use of laughing.
d) It's about information conduits. When therapists talk to a couple, they often say that they work on the relationship itself. The relationship is something nebulous that exists between the two people. The word for connection that is devoid of value is "Cathexis".
There is a cathexis between a mother and son. There is a cathexis between an elected official and a voter. There is a cathethix between a rapist and his victim.
e) People can be brought to an understanding of meta, even if they think they are in opposition. Meta is a direction with no articulated opposition, as of yet.
Please take this seriously: if we are careful not to abuse meta, to scoff at those who use words from it for their own personal game (Unleashing the IdeaVirus, for example, is a blatant commerce hijack of memetics), we undermine brand and viral marketers, we show that we are purely a problem solving meme, meant to help, we can blow this meme up into a symbol of all that is right about the world. It's about harnessing collective processing.
More soon.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blunderov [mailto:squooker@mweb.co.za]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2005 06:25 PM
> To: virus@lucifer.com
> Subject: RE: virus: What's YOUR poison?
>
> global_hijack@speakeasy.net
> Sent: 06 February 2005 19:42
>
> My poison is Meta.
>
> As a strategy.
>
> [Blunderov] A lot to ponder in this little partial word. A case can be
> made that our extraordinary capacity for meta-thinking is what most
> distinguishes homo sapiens from other species. More than opposable thumb
> and forefinger. More even, and some will dispute this, than religion.
>
> Global_hijack's posts on the subject have been haunting me for some days
> and led me by circuitous routes to the notion that perhaps the capacity
> for meta depends on the binary 'now/not-now' in the same way that our
> capacity for differentiation and integration depends on the binary
> 'I/Not_I'*.
>
> Sadly for me, it turns out - courtesy of the Politburo - that this wheel
> has already been invented. Apparently it is well recognised that the
> capacity for "temporal thinking" is very marked in homo sapiens and may
> be even be an exclusive franchise of the ape family.
>
> Still, I'm quite pleased with 'now/not-now'. Is it possible then that
> the fundamental question in matters of strategy is "When?"?
>
> Best Regards
>
> * This is my own assertion and should not be mistaken for an established
> fact.
>
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
>
---
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Hijacking everything ever knew about anything.
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hkhenson@rogers...
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Re: virus: When!
« Reply #1 on: 2005-02-09 18:51:39 » |
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At 09:13 PM 09/02/05 +0000, you wrote:
>Ooh! I like it!
>
>I definitely think about memes in terms of 'when do I layer in the next
>bit...'
>
>Okay, let me stack up a meme complex
>
>1) The heart of the new everything that we are talking about is
>
>Meta
>
>2) What is meta?
>
>The computing dictionary lists a definition of :
>
>meta: a prefix meaning one level removed in complexity. If 'X' is some
>concept, then 'meta-X' is data about or processes operating on that concept.
Yep.
http://www.alamut.com/subj/evolution/misc/hensonMemes.html
Memes Meta-Memes and Politics
By H. Keith Henson
Copyright 1988,
"There are other defenses against the uncritical acceptance of potentially
dangerous memes. Most common is the trait of rejecting all newfangled
ideas,where "newfangled" is usually defined as any to which one has not
been exposed before puberty. Societies have similar defenses against new ideas.
"There are also powerful meta-memes, that is, memes used to judge other
memes. Of these,the scientific method is perhaps the most effective. Logic
is another system by which memes can be tested, at least for consistency."
>3) What is it good for?
>
>a) It's very, very good for describing the direction/manner by which
>people cascade up from their first exposure to a concept all the way to
>membots.
>
>I'm very specifically not putting the cascade construct in - I'll allude
>to it (metadata), and then if you are interested, we can talk about it in
>a separate post.
>
>b) It's a synthetic direction - as yet, it doesn't have any negative
>associations, such as "leftist" or "republican".
>
>The plumber is meta. The bus driver is meta. All of the people who make
>cities actually run are meta. It's an identity that we can share with
>everyone trying to help. The part of us that keeps us alive while driving
>on acid is meta. A principal is meta to a school. The students are meta to
>a school. A single student is meta to a school. The parents are meta. The
>teachers are the most commonly articulated meta.
I think you are going *way* overboard here.
>c) It's about self-reflection - bringing people into contact with their
>own memetic output begins to get them to modulate that output. Since that
>changes the input into the communal conversational system, the entire
>system changes. It's making use of gossip. It's making use of blushing.
>It's making use of laughing.
>
>d) It's about information conduits. When therapists talk to a couple, they
>often say that they work on the relationship itself. The relationship is
>something nebulous that exists between the two people. The word for
>connection that is devoid of value is "Cathexis".
>
>There is a cathexis between a mother and son. There is a cathexis between
>an elected official and a voter. There is a cathethix between a rapist and
>his victim.
>
>
>e) People can be brought to an understanding of meta, even if they think
>they are in opposition. Meta is a direction with no articulated
>opposition, as of yet.
>
>
>Please take this seriously: if we are careful not to abuse meta,
I think you already have.
Keith Henson
>to scoff at those who use words from it for their own personal game
>(Unleashing the IdeaVirus, for example, is a blatant commerce hijack of
>memetics), we undermine brand and viral marketers, we show that we are
>purely a problem solving meme, meant to help, we can blow this meme up
>into a symbol of all that is right about the world. It's about harnessing
>collective processing.
>
>More soon.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blunderov [mailto:squooker@mweb.co.za]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2005 06:25 PM
> > To: virus@lucifer.com
> > Subject: RE: virus: What's YOUR poison?
> >
> > global_hijack@speakeasy.net
> > Sent: 06 February 2005 19:42
> >
> > My poison is Meta.
> >
> > As a strategy.
> >
> > [Blunderov] A lot to ponder in this little partial word. A case can be
> > made that our extraordinary capacity for meta-thinking is what most
> > distinguishes homo sapiens from other species. More than opposable thumb
> > and forefinger. More even, and some will dispute this, than religion.
> >
> > Global_hijack's posts on the subject have been haunting me for some days
> > and led me by circuitous routes to the notion that perhaps the capacity
> > for meta depends on the binary 'now/not-now' in the same way that our
> > capacity for differentiation and integration depends on the binary
> > 'I/Not_I'*.
> >
> > Sadly for me, it turns out - courtesy of the Politburo - that this wheel
> > has already been invented. Apparently it is well recognised that the
> > capacity for "temporal thinking" is very marked in homo sapiens and may
> > be even be an exclusive franchise of the ape family.
> >
> > Still, I'm quite pleased with 'now/not-now'. Is it possible then that
> > the fundamental question in matters of strategy is "When?"?
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> > * This is my own assertion and should not be mistaken for an established
> > fact.
> >
> >
> > ---
> > To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to
> <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
> >
>
>
>---
>To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to
><http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
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deadletter-j
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Re: virus: When!
« Reply #2 on: 2005-02-09 20:54:28 » |
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Keith Hanson wrote,
>
> >The plumber is meta. The bus driver is meta. All of the people who make
> >cities actually run are meta. It's an identity that we can share with
> >everyone trying to help. The part of us that keeps us alive while driving
> >on acid is meta. A principal is meta to a school. The students are meta to
> >a school. A single student is meta to a school. The parents are meta. The
> >teachers are the most commonly articulated meta.
>
> I think you are going *way* overboard here.
>
Really? Could this be one of those societal reactions to newfangled ideas, not exposed to before puberty?
In the other insertions I have been working on, I brought up the concept of meta much later. It is interesting that for you, meta itself is the catch word/symbol.
This fits with the idea that the closer a person is to an idea, the more interference there is with symbols and ideas already present.
Let's look at the example again, from a different angle. What is not being asked is, "what are these roles meta to?"
Let's suppose I want to hack a school. Which I do, in fact. I am going to stop teaching next year in favor of full time work to hack the entire thing _as_a_system_. And I intend to bring the information about the successes/failures here. Plus, you'll be able to read about it in the newspapers if I screw up. How can I affect change in a school?
The system itself only knows how to flow information a couple of ways. Meetings between admin and principals, professional development for teachers, teachers educate students, student don't talk to the parents, and the parents mostly bash away at the system wondering why it is so quiet.
So I come in on my creds, and also as an outsider. The system is vulnerable to me from all directions _because_ I am an outsider and an insider. I go to the math teachers, and I will give them a database that I am working that maps how all of these supposedly "important" math skills actually map to the real world. Believe me, we really need one, and nobody has created one. I give it to them for free. This allows me to pick their brains for all of the good knowledge, that I am creating it for free, being a conduit between all the math teachers. Making it easy for them to help - all they have to do is give me fun examples, and I will put it into the map. Motion, Music, Art, Community - the real way that information is stacked in the kids heads. All cross referenced in a way that lets the teacher explain exactly which skills and standards go with which.
I go to the kids, with a dvd that is a funny, irreverent, and speaks in kids voices, asking why we don't have math classes that allow kids to travel multiple paths through the knowledge, exploring how to make sound bounce around the room, or how to build a trebuchet, etc. I use the footage of my own students actually doing these things. I layer in a funny plot, to distract them from the educational message.
I go to the parents, through every single communication route I can think of. I make copy after copy of a dvd that explains exactly what I am doing, why, and how they can help. I hit the principals through the ones I know who are feeling like they don't have options.
The teachers I hit through both the conservative leaders and the radicals. I layer the information in slowly - teachers are actually a crafty lot. If we turn their power to good, we will have a force of memeticists on our hands! We have to get the teachers to stop spending all our psychic energy on control!
Every different way of slicing a community is a different meta, a different direction. Together they add up to a synthetic whole.
And, I actually intend to do this. I'll finish this year, and then I will spend the next year making a living off of other projects, and trying to create systemic change in the entire Seattle school system.
Meta goes both ways. It is the direction from which perspective comes from. The person with the perspective has a responsibility to bring that perspective back to the community.
-b
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hkhenson@rogers...
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Re: virus: When!
« Reply #3 on: 2005-02-09 23:34:31 » |
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At 01:54 AM 10/02/05 +0000, global_hijack wrote:
>Keith Hanson wrote,
> >
> > >The plumber is meta. The bus driver is meta. All of the people who make
> > >cities actually run are meta. It's an identity that we can share with
> > >everyone trying to help. The part of us that keeps us alive while driving
> > >on acid is meta. A principal is meta to a school. The students are
> meta to
> > >a school. A single student is meta to a school. The parents are meta. The
> > >teachers are the most commonly articulated meta.
> >
> > I think you are going *way* overboard here.
> >
>Really? Could this be one of those societal reactions to newfangled ideas,
>not exposed to before puberty?
If you do a little digging into my background, you will find that I am
highly receptive to new ideas. Most of the things that are important to
me, nanotechnology, AI, cryonics, memetics, evolutionary psychology were
not even topics when I left high school in 1960. Space colonies have kind
of come and gone, when we can do them, it will be trivial.
>In the other insertions I have been working on, I brought up the concept
>of meta much later. It is interesting that for you, meta itself is the
>catch word/symbol.
But you will find that I really object to people changing well accepted
definitions. You can see huge battles on the memetics list over the term
"meme." "Meta" as a prefix is a well established word, such as you
mentioned "metadata," information about how the data was obtained. As is
"MetaMeme, a meme which affects the replication and survival of other memes
such as logic or the scientific method.
>This fits with the idea that the closer a person is to an idea, the more
>interference there is with symbols and ideas already present.
>
>Let's look at the example again, from a different angle. What is not being
>asked is, "what are these roles meta to?"
>
>Let's suppose I want to hack a school. Which I do, in fact. I am going to
>stop teaching next year in favor of full time work to hack the entire
>thing _as_a_system_. And I intend to bring the information about the
>successes/failures here. Plus, you'll be able to read about it in the
>newspapers if I screw up. How can I affect change in a school?
>
>The system itself only knows how to flow information a couple of ways.
>Meetings between admin and principals, professional development for
>teachers, teachers educate students, student don't talk to the parents,
>and the parents mostly bash away at the system wondering why it is so quiet.
>
>So I come in on my creds, and also as an outsider. The system is
>vulnerable to me from all directions _because_ I am an outsider and an
>insider. I go to the math teachers, and I will give them a database that I
>am working that maps how all of these supposedly "important" math skills
>actually map to the real world. Believe me, we really need one, and nobody
>has created one. I give it to them for free. This allows me to pick their
>brains for all of the good knowledge, that I am creating it for free,
>being a conduit between all the math teachers. Making it easy for them to
>help - all they have to do is give me fun examples, and I will put it into
>the map. Motion, Music, Art, Community - the real way that information is
>stacked in the kids heads. All cross referenced in a way that lets the
>teacher explain exactly which skills and standards go with which.
>
>I go to the kids, with a dvd that is a funny, irreverent, and speaks in
>kids voices, asking why we don't have math classes that allow kids to
>travel multiple paths through the knowledge, exploring how to make sound
>bounce around the room, or how to build a trebuchet, etc. I use the
>footage of my own students actually doing these things. I layer in a funny
>plot, to distract them from the educational message.
If you actually get this far, ask me to give you a real world example or two.
>I go to the parents, through every single communication route I can think
>of. I make copy after copy of a dvd that explains exactly what I am doing,
>why, and how they can help. I hit the principals through the ones I know
>who are feeling like they don't have options.
>
>The teachers I hit through both the conservative leaders and the radicals.
>I layer the information in slowly - teachers are actually a crafty lot. If
>we turn their power to good, we will have a force of memeticists on our
>hands! We have to get the teachers to stop spending all our psychic energy
>on control!
>
>Every different way of slicing a community is a different meta, a
>different direction. Together they add up to a synthetic whole.
>
>And, I actually intend to do this. I'll finish this year, and then I will
>spend the next year making a living off of other projects, and trying to
>create systemic change in the entire Seattle school system.
>
>Meta goes both ways. It is the direction from which perspective comes
>from. The person with the perspective has a responsibility to bring that
>perspective back to the community.
Well, lots of luck. Ghod knows we need better teaching methods.
But if you are serious about wanting to make a major change, I would take a
look at evolutionary psychology.
"My contention, simply put, is that the evolutionary approach is the only
approach in the social and behavioural sciences that deals with why, in an
ultimate sense, people behave as they do. As such, it often unmasks the
universal hypocrisies of our species, peering behind self-serving notions
about our moral and social values to reveal the darker side of human nature.
--Irwin Silverman, Psychology Department, York University, Toronto, Canada.
I think you have a better chance of understanding the problems if you grok
EP. Of course, it might leave you the way it did me when I finished my
latest paper on Evolutionary Psychology, Memes and the Origin of War. The
problem of war isn't totally intractable, but if you can set the solution
in motion it takes 30 years to take effect.
And you really should consider making up a word from Greek or Latin roots
instead of using an established word.
Keith Henson
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simul
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I am a lama.
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Re: virus: When!
« Reply #4 on: 2005-02-12 15:01:53 » |
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> ideas,where "newfangled" is
> usually defined as any to which
> one has not been exposed before
> puberty.
Interesting, since the brain undergoes mylenation at puberty. Maybe it's related.
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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