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simul
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virus: New Definitions for Old Terms
« on: 2004-12-31 09:25:23 »
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1.

This came out of a long thread at wta-talk.  I think it's been concluded, by
many, that aggressively denouncing religion only strengthens the faith of
its supporters and increases their motivation to gain more followers. 

The problem is that it's difficult for an atheist to be in the room with
someone talking about "their spirit" without becoming physically sick,
especially someone they love.  (It was for me.)

The purpose of these terms is to allow you to listen to, and contribute to a
conversation in such a way so as not to ever appear "aggressive" or
"denouncing" - but still guide the conversation around the irrational and
towards the rational. 

If you mentally use these alternate terms for a week or so, you'll see the
new powers they give you in conversation and interpretation.

2.

I'm also interested in expanding this lexicon and in refining the
definitions to make the more useful. For example: a definition of prayer,
faith, etc.  It really should be a group/democratic activity.

The definitions must be built to remove any mystical elements but still
retain meaning and use in conversation.  They also must be internally
consistent, capable of referring to each other.  For example, my use of the
word "mystical" in the preceding sentence, used to define the structure of
the definitions, is consistent with the definition provided below *as well
as* being consistent with the existing usage.

3. The Definitions:

God - an emergent entity consisting of the entire universe.  A meta-entity.

Spirit - 1. The complex interaction of all psychological/memetic and
neurological interactions which drive us to action.  Syn: motivation, soul

Soul - 1. The cumulative effect we have had on the universe and on others.
Lives on after we die.  2. Syn: spirit 3. The cumulative
positive/cooperative effect from (1)

Supernatural - 1. That which currently has no scientific explanation.  2.
That which cannot possibly have a sufficient scientific explanation owing to
its fractal/chaotic nature.  Syn: mystical

Religion - 1. A system of practices and beliefs designed to created large,
spirited communities.  2.  A set of guidelines to follow in order to
maintain one's spirit/soul(3)

Faith - 1. "belief based on expedience or necessity, rather than experience"
as in "I had no time to test the program, so I had to run it on faith"  2.
"an unreasonable or illogical expectation of an outcome intended to inspire
others in that outcome and thus produce results" as in, "Ghandi had faith in
a free India"


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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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virus: New Definitions for Old Terms
« Reply #1 on: 2005-01-01 08:27:24 »
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Greetings Erik & everyone,

interesting agenda. Just a spontaneous contribution without involving myself
more than this:

Prayer: "I think prayer is, for the most part, a simple reminder of your
deeply held principles and convictions." (Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama, in
The Art of Happiness, p. 298)

Seems to be one kind of prayer, at least - one may distinguish more
appeal-like prayers, too...

Björn

p.s.: Happy new year to everyone & Erik...

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Othello. Thou dost conspire against thy friend, Iago,
If thou but think'st him wrong'd, and mak'st his ear
A stranger to thy thoughts.
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RE: virus: New Definitions for Old Terms
« Reply #2 on: 2005-01-01 10:19:10 »
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[Blunderov] Like this one?

Mercedes Benz
Janis Joplin
Oh Lord, wont you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So Lord, wont you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?

Oh Lord, wont you buy me a color TV ?
Dialing For Dollars is trying to find me.
I wait for delivery each day until three,
So oh Lord, wont you buy me a color TV ?

Oh Lord, wont you buy me a night on the town ?
Im counting on you, Lord, please dont let me down.
Prove that you love me and buy the next round,
Oh Lord, wont you buy me a night on the town ?

Everybody!
Oh Lord, wont you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends,
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So oh Lord, wont you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf
Of Gorogh
Sent: 01 January 2005 03:27 PM

<Snip>Seems to be one kind of prayer, at least - one may distinguish
more
appeal-like prayers, too... </Snip>




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virus: New Definitions for Old Terms
« Reply #3 on: 2005-01-01 11:58:26 »
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:-D

exactly!

p.s.: the love for inductive, empirical approaches to definitions aside, we
don't have to reinvent the wheel - most dictionaries seem to offer very good
and ideologically neutral explications of semantic content, such as
prayer 1a a personal communication or petition adressed to a deity, esp. in
the form of supplication, adoration, praise, contrition, or thanksgiving. 1b
any other form of spiritual communication with a deity. 2 a similar personal
communication that does not involve adoration, addressed to beings venerted
as being closely associated with a deity, such as angels or saints. 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, 9...

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com]Im Auftrag
von Blunderov
Gesendet: Samstag, 1. Januar 2005 16:19
An: virus@lucifer.com
Betreff: RE: virus: New Definitions for Old Terms


[Blunderov] Like this one?

Mercedes Benz
Janis Joplin
Oh Lord, wont you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So Lord, wont you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?

Oh Lord, wont you buy me a color TV ?
Dialing For Dollars is trying to find me.
I wait for delivery each day until three,
So oh Lord, wont you buy me a color TV ?

Oh Lord, wont you buy me a night on the town ?
Im counting on you, Lord, please dont let me down.
Prove that you love me and buy the next round,
Oh Lord, wont you buy me a night on the town ?

Everybody!
Oh Lord, wont you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends,
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So oh Lord, wont you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf
Of Gorogh
Sent: 01 January 2005 03:27 PM

<Snip>Seems to be one kind of prayer, at least - one may distinguish
more
appeal-like prayers, too... </Snip>




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Othello. Thou dost conspire against thy friend, Iago,
If thou but think'st him wrong'd, and mak'st his ear
A stranger to thy thoughts.
hkhenson@rogers...
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hkhenson2
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Re: virus: New Definitions for Old Terms
« Reply #4 on: 2005-01-01 12:35:02 »
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At 09:25 AM 31/12/04 -0500, Erik Aronesty wrote:

snip

>Spirit - 1. The complex interaction of all psychological/memetic and
>neurological interactions which drive us to action.  Syn: motivation, soul

I am an engineer.  Engineers in general do better with concrete examples.

Spirit is a quality you interact with.  So living people have spirit, but
then so do dogs and cats.

Running operating systems have spirit by this definition.  Where does the
spirit of the OS go when you turn off the power?  Same place light goes
when you turn off the switch, it is just gone.  Same thing for dead people
and animals.

This is of course incompatible with your idea of "soul," a word that in my
opinion that points to nothing.

Re "God," there was a science fiction story decades ago where (much like
the building of the computer in Hitchhikers Guide) had been built to answer
"the question."  In the story the computer was asked, "Does God exist."

In a flash of light, the power switch to the computer welded shut and it
intoned, "There is now."

Keith Henson



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