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Walter Watts
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virus: electoral scenarios
« on: 2004-11-02 16:52:04 »
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Did you know there is actually an electoral scenario in play that would
make Bush president and John Edwards vice-president?


Walter
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Casey
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Re:virus: electoral scenarios
« Reply #1 on: 2004-11-02 19:02:00 »
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Yep!  I sure do.  Wouldn't that be a hoot!? 

However, how it could happen is a little fuzzy to me. 

Care to refresh my memory?

Later gator!

Casey
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Re: virus: electoral scenarios
« Reply #2 on: 2004-11-02 18:26:05 »
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Walter Watts wrote:

> Did you know there is actually an electoral scenario in play that
> would make Bush president and John Edwards vice-president?

I like the scenario where aliens invade, and kill everyone except
Cheney, who is revealed to be a cyborg. *If* this scenario comes about,
there is a 78% that it will culminate with him standing on top of a huge
pile of alien and human corpses, with his synthetic flesh melted away to
reveal the steel endoskeleton beneath. Several experts in robotics and
electoral politics go so far as to suggest his eyes will glow red while
a cold, inhuman, maniacal laugh issues from his voice-synthesizer as
tornados whip accross the scorched landcape.
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Joe Dees
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Re:virus: electoral scenarios
« Reply #3 on: 2004-11-02 20:42:58 »
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letheomaniac
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Re:virus: electoral scenarios
« Reply #4 on: 2004-11-03 02:27:36 »
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ahoy
i realise that i never post on the bbs but i was thinking about this electoral votes thing and something about it was bothering me.
this system seems more than a little strange (not to mention inefficient). surely the person who gets the most individual votes should win the election? i mean you have to count them anyway, so why not just let those figures stand as the result of the election? why all this time- and money consuming arsing about? or do american taxpayers recieve such huge salaries that they don't mind paying for this nonsense? or perhaps i am misunderstanding how this whole thing works altogether and it is actually completely fair to all concerned. any information would be appreciated if this is indeed the case.

regards
letheomaniac
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Joe Dees
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Re:virus: electoral scenarios
« Reply #5 on: 2004-11-03 03:00:34 »
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letheomaniac
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Re:virus: electoral scenarios
« Reply #6 on: 2004-11-03 06:10:56 »
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joe
my question was "why does the usa persist in using an antiquated, long-winded, expensive and untimately silly (imho) system to elect their presidents?" not how many prayers (!) gwb needs to win the election. the rest of the world gets by on counting the votes and that's that. perhaps the american people are under the false assumtion that because they invented democracy they somehow simultaneously perfected it. i also find it hard to believe that an active member of the CoV can unquestioningly support a raving bible-thumping fundie like gwb. i think that their are catholic priests in training who are less thoroughly indoctrinated that you are, joe. remember, you are not the car you drive... you are not the contents of your wallet... you are not the country you live in... while some may find your loyalty to your country admirable, i think that your are merely propegating intolerance by defining yourselves (being you and the rest of the american people) as "us" and the rest of the world as "them".

peace
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RE: virus: electoral scenarios
« Reply #7 on: 2004-11-03 05:34:17 »
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letheomaniac
Sent: 03 November 2004 09:28 AM

ahoy
i realise that i never post on the bbs but i was thinking about this
electoral votes thing and something about it was bothering me.
this system seems more than a little strange (not to mention
inefficient). surely the person who gets the most individual votes
should win the election? i mean you have to count them anyway, so why
not just let those figures stand as the result of the election? why all
this time- and money consuming arsing about? or do american taxpayers
recieve such huge salaries that they don't mind paying for this
nonsense? or perhaps i am misunderstanding how this whole thing works
altogether and it is actually completely fair to all concerned. any
information would be appreciated if this is indeed the case.

[Blunderov] My understanding of the matter is that, back in the day, in
order to achieve the necessary agreement for union, some states had to
be given over-representation. Some might now feel that the system should
be revisited but the consensus seems to be that it still works ok.

With regard to a Republican president and a Democratic vice-president; I
recall an episode from 'The West Wing' in which the Democratic
president's daughter was kidnapped and he was subjected to political
demands by the abductors. According to the script, when a president
finds himself in a position where he cannot be expected to exercise
impartial judgment, he has the constitutional option to resign the
presidency in favour of the OPPOSING party for a limited time.
Presumably, although the script was not clear on the matter, the vice
presidency would go unchanged.

I hasten to add that one should not believe everything one sees on TV.

Best Regards.


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Re: virus: electoral scenarios
« Reply #8 on: 2004-11-03 06:06:41 »
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Originally, American citizens did not vote in federal elections.  The President was chosen by the state legislature.

So, choosimg your state assemblyman was seen as more important.

I wrote an article about it - which was published as an op-ed in a local travel magazine.

http://www.documentroot.com/voting-article.pdf

-----Original Message-----
From: "letheomaniac" <letheomania@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 00:27:36
To:virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re:virus: electoral scenarios


ahoy
i realise that i never post on the bbs but i was thinking about this electoral votes thing and something about it was bothering me.
this system seems more than a little strange (not to mention inefficient). surely the person who gets the most individual votes should win the election? i mean you have to count them anyway, so why not just let those figures stand as the result of the election? why all this time- and money consuming arsing about? or do american taxpayers recieve such huge salaries that they don't mind paying for this nonsense? or perhaps i am misunderstanding how this whole thing works altogether and it is actually completely fair to all concerned. any information would be appreciated if this is indeed the case.

regards
letheomaniac

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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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RE: virus: electoral scenarios
« Reply #9 on: 2004-11-03 15:52:50 »
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Erik Aronesty
Sent: 03 November 2004 01:07 PM

Originally, American citizens did not vote in federal elections.  The
President was chosen by the state legislature.

So, choosimg your state assemblyman was seen as more important.

I wrote an article about it - which was published as an op-ed in a local
travel magazine.

http://www.documentroot.com/voting-article.pdf

[Blunderov] Admirable writing and excellent layout. Kudos.

I think proportional representation is a comparitively fairer system but
it has its downside too. The voter has to vote for a party as such and
has no say over the actual persons who get to feed at the public trough.
The winning party names it's (sometimes literally) favourite sons for
plum positions at its own discretion. Or lack of it.

Erik's plural system also has the cardinal virtue of encouraging a more
diverse democracy and is also the more 'scientific' system.

But it seems to me unlikely that the USA will ever be able to break the
shackles of its history in this respect - people do not lightly give up
privileges they have gained. 

Here is some more on the subject of the American Electoral College.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14823623&method=full&si
teid=50143&headline=how-u-s--election-system-works-name_page.html
<snip>
HOW U.S. ELECTION SYSTEM WORKS Nov 2 2004
By Anthony Harwood

WHY does America have such a confusing way of electing its presidents?
It's because the racists of the Deep South wanted to hang on to their
slaves.

In 1787, when the Founding Fathers met to hammer out a constitution,
delegates from the South feared the populous North would win power and
abolish slavery.

So they came up with the Electoral College. The parties in each state
would appoint "electors" to choose the president depending on the voting
in their state. The number of a state's electors depended on its
population.

Then the slave owners played their trump card. Each slave would count as
three-fifths of a white man.

When America votes today, the system will still bear the legacy of
racist Deep South gerrymandering. </snip>

[Blunderov] Of course there are no more slaves, at least in the usual
sense of the word, with which to stuff the ballot boxes. My reservation
about the system that it is a zero-sum game and not the survey that it
pretends to be.

Talking of theoretical scenarios, in the event of a tie, the presidency
is decided by the house of representatives...(again, from the link
provided above)
<snip>
One other potential tiebreaker is Richie Robb, a Republican who will be
one of West Virginia's five electors. He is preparing to be a "faithless
elector" and may refuse to vote for Bush in protest over Iraq. </snip>

[Blunderov] Best Regards.



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Re:virus: electoral scenarios
« Reply #10 on: 2004-11-03 17:37:47 »
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Re:virus: electoral scenarios
« Reply #11 on: 2004-11-03 17:46:53 »
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Re:virus: electoral scenarios
« Reply #12 on: 2004-11-03 18:15:32 »
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Re:virus: electoral scenarios
« Reply #13 on: 2004-11-03 18:32:30 »
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Re:virus: electoral scenarios
« Reply #14 on: 2004-11-03 23:04:05 »
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