Re:'Disturbing' data suggest plot for summer terror
« Reply #15 on: 2004-06-01 19:36:58 »
[Joe Dees to Casey 1] Perhaps you'd like to re-view the video I posted of Berg's beheading and chant a little sotto voce Allahu Ackbar.
[Joe Dees to Casey 2] That's nowhere like saying that someone is, literally, a motherfucker.
[rhinoceros] Since Irvken does not know either you or your mother personally, that was obviously an empty insult. But I still wonder which one you find worse and why. How do you personally value personal shaming?
I'm not. Calling someone a literal motherfucker is nothing like saying they cared nothing about the fate of mutilated Americans (although both assertions, if true, are indeed deplorable). And you HAD associated yourself with and praised Kos, who did indeed make the 'screw you' statement' concerning those mutilated Americans.
My comment was admittedly excessive, but it was nonetheless contextually related to the matter under discussion (uncaringness in the face of atrocities perpetrated against Americans by Jihadis).
I, on the other hand, had said nothing to deserve Irvken's execrable vomitus.
Plus, Irvken's comment was just the last of several he made concerning me, all vile and some similar, in a short period of time (and that last one after he had been banned for his previous slurs), whereas my comment to you was singular.
There is no rational case for moral equivalence that could possibly be made between the two.
Re:'Disturbing' data suggest plot for summer terror
« Reply #17 on: 2004-06-01 19:57:09 »
[Casey] Joe, this is the post that you have been alluding regarding Kos and myself:
<snip> Joe,
Please calm down. You compared me to Kos and I happily accept that comparison. I also want to point out that your post from Hoystory is published by someone whom I disagree with on most subjects, including Iraq. Of course, I'm not going to agree with you on this issue, or probably anything related to Iraq. You continually post opinions that argue against liberal, or left-minded publications. That's your opinion and you have every right to it. Remember, I do not go out of my way to attack you for your hostile opinions regarding the likes of Indymedia, etc. The only time I ever do anything remotely like what you are doing to me currently is when you post one article after another, with no explanation or opinion of your own.
So, you and I disagree on many issues. I think that quasi-mercenary forces should not be in Iraq. If we need more security in Iraq, then we should have more military forces in Iraq. I don't want MY hard earned monies which go to the federal govt in the form of taxes being used to pay for the security of civilian contractor's when those security forces are not a part of the US armed forces. Also, those 4 men knew exactly what type of danger was involved when going to Iraq. Rene Gonzalez? OK, when did you start complaining about what some university student wrote? I will not besmirch him for writing his piece; this is, after all, the United States of America. And, there is a provision within the Bill of Rights that protects freedom of speech. So, I'll defend him just for the sake of defending his right to speak out; regardless of my opposing point of view. As for me "muddying up the waters" by discussing Matthew Hoy's position on school prayer or abortion - I was highlighting how different I am compared to this right-wing idealogue. If Mr. Hoy begins to refrain from ad hominem attacks on those whom he disagrees with, then I may begin to read what he has to say. Until that time has come to pass, I'll gladly refrain from doing so.
<end snip>
[Casey] It would seem that you are arguing with me over what Kos wrote. I said that I don't take issue with Kos posting what he writes. I said that I'd happily agree with being compared to Kos because he in my opinion he isn't a zealous patriot, which can be discerned from my reply. In fact, I've never said, ONCE, that I agree with everything he writes, only that I applaud him for writing it.
It should also be noted that as I said above, those 4 security officers knew exactly what they were getting into when they signed their contracts to work in Iraq. And, that I did not want my monies to be paid to them, instead I'd rather my monies be paid to the US military. And, finally, as I said above I stated that I want more US military personnel in-country instead of these security contractors.
Finally, I'm going to call you out on lying about the subject of you telling me to chant sotto voce Alluha Akbar while watching the Berg decapitation again.
I never said that I didn't make that comment. For me to assert otherwise, considering the omnipresent Virus archives, would be surpassingly stupid of me. I have also said that the comment was excessive, but it is a small step from not caring if Americans are mutilated and murdered by Islamofascist fanatics to actually approving of it, which is why I didn't TELL you to chant "Allahu Ackbar while watching Nick Berg being decapitated; I merely INQUIRED whether, considering your complete and total lack of sympathy for four Americans who arguably suffered much greater barbarity than Nick Berg did, and who, like Nick Berg, were civilian contractors in Iraq (although Nick Berg was freelance and the four food truck guards mutilated and burned in Fallujah were corporate-connected), you'd LIKE TO do so. If you took offence at the question, apparently you would NOT like to do so; that is a point in your favor.
SAN ANTONIO -- The FBI issued an alert Monday for two propane trucks and 15 gas canisters that were stolen over the Memorial Day Holiday weekend in San Antonio.
FBI Agent-In-Charge Patrick Patterson, of San Antonio, said the possibility that the propane could be used to create a bomb prompted him to notify the National Joint Terrorism Task Force in Washington and law enforcement officials in Texas.
"We've had recent reports of al-Qaida's desire to attack the United States," Patterson said. "And we have to be vigilant to these kinds of theft reports."
San Antonio Police Chief Albert Ortiz called the theft of the propane trucks from Ferrelgas at 5514 East Houston St. "a very professional job."
Ortiz said the individuals cut a fence and broke a lock to get away with the trucks, one of which had a 2,000 gallon tank, and another that had 3,000 gallons. Both tanks were 85 percent full.
Patterson is also concerned about 15 canister tanks that were stolen from a Methodist Ambulatory Surgery Center. Four of the tanks contained nitrous, three had carbon dioxide, three contained oxygen and four of the tanks were empty.
Patterson said he didn't know if the contents of the tanks could be mixed to make a weapon of mass destruction, but he offered another scenario.
"The tank could be emptied, and other items (could be) put in it to make it an improvised explosive device," he said, "which would be essentially a bomb."
Re:'Disturbing' data suggest plot for summer terror
« Reply #20 on: 2004-06-01 20:34:38 »
[Joe Dees] I merely INQUIRED if, considering your complete and total lack of sympathy for four Americans who arguably suffered much greater barbarity than Nick Berg did, and who, like Nick Berg, were civilian contractors in Iraq (although Nick Berg was freelance and the four food truck guards mutilated and burned in Fallujah were corporate-connected), you'd LIKE TO do so. If you took offence at the question, apparently you would NOT like to do so; that is a point in your favor.
[rhinoceros] Besides the specifics of the mutilation of the bodies by the mob, what their employer sells is SWAT: Special Weapons and Tactics teams.
I was about to modify my last post to add "before the thread was unfortunately hijacked by Irvken's attacks and subsequent suppoort for them by others", but that comment has now been rendered redundant and superfluous.
And guards of food trucks in a war zone had BETTER know how to guard. Apparently, considering their horrific fate, the slaughtered Americans in Fallujah were either not able or not equipped to guard their assigned food truck convoy - or themselves - well enough.
Re:'Disturbing' data suggest plot for summer terror
« Reply #22 on: 2004-06-01 20:54:50 »
[Joe] I never said that I didn't make that comment. For me to assert otherwise, considering the omnipresent Virus archives, would be surpassingly stupid of me.
Casey, I never said anything like this to you, and never will.
On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 14:27, Joe Dees wrote: > Cowgirl, missionary, doggie-style, reverse cowgirl (in that order). Our supposed 'natural' position is doggie-style.
yeah, as if, is that with your mother?
BTW: Irvken posted this AFTER Lucifer silenced him for a week for previous slanders. That is a clear and intentional violation of the ban.
[Casey] Joe, you DID tell me to chant Alluha Akbar while watching the Berg decapitation. Then, as noted above, you said that you "never said anything this like to you (me), and never will". There's a discrepency. Either, you did, or you didn't. And, the evidence (your posts) agrees with my previous assertion. What more do you need? Seriously.
Re:'Disturbing' data suggest plot for summer terror
« Reply #23 on: 2004-06-01 21:09:29 »
[Joe Dees] I was about to modify my last post to add "before the thread was unfortunately hijacked by Irvken's attacks and subsequent suppoort for them by others", but that comment has now been rendered redundant and superfluous.
And guards of food trucks in a war zone had BETTER know how to guard. Apparently, considering their horrific fate, the slaughtered Americans in Fallujah were either not able or not equipped to guard their assigned food truck convoy - or themselves - well enough.
[rhinoceros] I am not sure what the last part of the first paragraph was supposed to mean, so you probably did the right thing to omit it.
As for the second paragraph, yes, it seems that these four mercenaries along with several hundred more Americans and many thousands Iraqis, all of them on Iraqi soil, failed to guard themselves.
Casey: I said that I never said anything to you like what Irvken said to me. Since I have pointed out several different ways in which the two are nonrelational, it should be surpassingly obvious that that statement is indeed true, except, that is, to the wilfully blind wishing to pursue disruptive agendas. Does that category include you?
Rhino: Those several thousand imported foreign Jihadis, Baathist remnants and Shi'ite mullahcrats who died did indeed not know how to protect themselves sufficiently, or how to attack US liberators sufficiently well, and for that, I am grateful; it does, however, sadden me that they knew how to do so well enough to cost the lives of several hundred members of the Iraq-liberating US military - but that has been the cost of Iraqi liberation.
Re:'Disturbing' data suggest plot for summer terror
« Reply #25 on: 2004-06-01 21:55:08 »
Joe, I was pointing out what you said to me. Indeed, what you said could be construed as categorically offensive. And, my point is that it is. Now, I would assume that you are agreeing with me when I say that you did comment that I should "sotto voce Alluha Akbar" while watching the Berg decapitation, correct? This aforementioned quote has nothing to do with Irvken and yourself. It has to do with what you said to me in a previous post on the BBS, a post which you said previously you never wrote.
Taking this into consideration, I would say this to be on the same level as your complaint regarding Irvken. He said something that offended you. You said something that offended me. Is that point so difficult to comprehend? You might then ask yourself why didn't I complain as you did when Irvken insulted you. Simply put, I found it silly, and quite frankly one of the stupidest things I've ever read from you, to complain.
However, since you've complained about his behavior, I feel it is important that this offensive behavior of yours should be held to the same standard that you want others to have to abide by.
Shall I take you to task and ask that the Virian Council silence you for not abiding by those same standards that you want others to follow?
Please do. Any objective review of the incident, not colored by Bush-hatred, anti-war fervour, and personal animus, will have to conclude that:
1) I made a single statement to you, ONCE, while Irvken made several statements in a short time, on different threads, sliming me viciously, even AFTER he was banned by Lucifer.
2) I did not TELL you to chant "Allahu Ackbar" while watching the Nick Berg beheading video, but, instead, asked you if, considering your approval of Kos, who stated 'screw them' in regards to four Americans murdered and mutilated by fallujan-based Jihadis, if you would like to do so. I never called you any name whatsoever, least of all, a motherfucker, nor did I call you a fuckwit, or a propagandizer, or tell you to shut the fuck up. But as to the last one, I'm getting there.
3) My comment did indeed have to do with a seemingly uncaring attitude to the mutilation and murder of Americans, which is just a short step away from approving of such actions, while Irvken's remarks concerning sex with my mother (an asinine and hurtful slander which he assumed from the execrable Hermit, knowing that my mother is afflicted with Alzheimers' Disease) had nothing whatsoever to do with ANY FUCKING THING EXCEPT VILE AND VICIOUS EMOTIONAL ATTACK!!!
Considering these multiple and manifest differences, no one possessing a scintilla of fairness, justice or balance could possibly equate the two.
4) If you take such action, I would like to file a counterclaim of vicious and ideology-inspired harassment, based upon the contents of this thread. Resorting to tag-team smitings of my posts by Hermitic minions, as has recently happened, while they also, tag-team fashion, applaud each other in order to compenste for my smiting of their insults, should not affect such a judgment, except to confirm these contentions. If a person's character is known by the character of his adversaries, I hope I soon reach -100; I would consider it a badge of honor.
In conclusion: You will not succeed in pushing my buttens and troll-baining me into a self-condemning tirade, any more than Hermitess could do with Jonathan Davis, no matter how diligently you try to do so. If you decide to file such a case, you will have to deal with the pathetically and pitifully inadequate case you posssess at present - one which should, if it succeeded, should, in all fairness, also get Hermitess silenced, as she called me much worse things in her posts, quisling and rude, slimy, two-faced shit being chief among them.
PS: I suspect that the actual motivation behind this personal harassment is that people have criticized me for posting articles rather than laying out my own position, one with which the criticizers irrationally and emotionally disagree, and the reasons for it, but when I actually did precisely that which they requested me to do (towards the end of the Joe's Complaint thread), none of the criticizers could come up with credible rebuttals of it, and most of them didn't even try. Thus, they are reduced to attempting to ensure that this perspective not appear on this list, for fear that all and sundry on this list who are still capable of objective and rational analysis will perceive how empirically supportable and logically valid and sound it is.
RE: virus: Re:'Disturbing' data suggest plot for summer terror
« Reply #28 on: 2004-06-02 00:09:53 »
....if it weren't for motherfuckers....there would be a lot of lonely, unhappy, single mothers out there. tip your glass to the motherfuckers of the world.
DrSebby. "Courage...and shuffle the cards".
----Original Message Follows---- From: "Joe Dees" <hidden@lucifer.com> Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com To: virus@lucifer.com Subject: virus: Re:'Disturbing' data suggest plot for summer terror Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 17:18:32 -0600
That's nowhere like saying that someone is, literally, a motherfucker.
RE: virus: Re:'Disturbing' data suggest plot for summer terror
« Reply #29 on: 2004-06-02 00:20:59 »
[Joe Dees] Please do. Any objective review of the incident, not colored by Bush-hatred, anti-war fervour, and personal animus, will have to conclude that:
1) I made a single statement to you, ONCE, while Irvken made several statements in a short time, on different threads, sliming me viciously, even AFTER he was banned by Lucifer.
[Casey] So, you agree with my initial assertion. Thank you.
[Joe Dees] 2) I did not TELL you to chant "Allahu Ackbar" while watching the Nick Berg beheading video, but, instead, asked you if, considering your approval of Kos, who stated 'screw them' in regards to four Americans murdered and mutilated by fallujan-based Jihadis, if you would like to do so. I never called you any name whatsoever, least of all, a motherfucker, nor did I call you a fuckwit, or a propagandizer, or tell you to shut the fuck up. But as to the last one, I'm getting there.
[Casey] This statement "I did not tell you to chant 'Alluha Akbar' while watching the Nick Berg beheading video" was refuted by your own words in previous posts as noted earlier today.
[Joe Dees] 3) My comment did indeed have to do with a seemingly uncaring attitude to the mutilation and murder of Americans, which is just a short step away from approving of such actions, while Irvken's remarks concerning sex with my mother (an asinine and hurtful slander which he assumed from the execrable Hermit, knowing that my mother is afflicted with Alzheimers' Disease) had nothing whatsoever to do with ANY FUCKING THING EXCEPT VILE AND VICIOUS EMOTIONAL ATTACK!!!
[Casey] I never knew that by saying that I applaud Kos, someone whom you brought into this equation initially, for his forthright manner and outspoken nature would deem me uncaring. Read the archives of his blog. That's what I did. I didn't take his one post about Fallujah as my only reason for applauding his efforts of disseminating information.
[Joe Dees] Considering these multiple and manifest differences, no one possessing a scintilla of fairness, justice or balance could possibly equate the two.
[Casey] But, your words do incite. Your words do carry weight. Your words do have an effect on others. Just as Irvken's and Hermit's words have had on you.
[Joe Dees] 4) If you take such action, I would like to file a counterclaim of vicious and ideology-inspired harassment, based upon the contents of this thread. Resorting to tag-team smitings of my posts by Hermitic minions, as has recently happened, while they also, tag-team fashion, applaud each other, should not affect such a judgment, except to confirm these contentions. If people are known by the character of their adversaries, I hope I soon reach -100; I would consider it a badge of honor.
[Casey] There is no idealogical-inspired harassment present in this thread. Not on my account, at least. As I've already stated on the BBS and in the CoV email list, I feel the US should employ it's military in an effective manner and not use quasi-mercenaries to fufill security operations.
[Joe Dees] In conclusion: You will not succeed in pushing my buttens and troll-baining me into a self-condemning tirade, any more than Hermitess could do with Jonathan Davis, no matter how diligently you try to do so. If you decide to file such a case, you will have to deal with the pathetically and pitifully inadequate case you posssess at present - one which should, if it succeeded, should, in all fairness, also get Hermitess silenced, as she called me much worse things in her posts, quisling and rude, slimy, two-faced shit being chief among them.
[Casey] I've not once tried to push your buttons. I only want you to live up to the standards that you've set for others. You've complained about Irvken, you've complained about Hermit, you've complained about Hermitess, and you've complained about Jake Sapiens in the past. With all of these complaints posted by you, it would seem only fitting that you live up to the standards that you've argued for.
[Casey] And, finally, I thank you for agreeing with my initial assertion that you lied. I don't appreciate being told to "sotto voce Alluha Akbar" while watching the Berg decapitation, nor do I appreciate being called one of "Hermit's minions", nor do I appreciate being told that my applauding someone (Kos) for their right to speak freely is akin to being a Bush-hater, or is somehow indicative of some anti-war fervour. It was, and I'll stand by this claim, a statement supporting his right to speak freely and openly. Something I find to be important in a society that supports freedom of speech. FWIW, I believe you should be able to speak freely and openly. However, I feel that that all of the standards that you want others to abide by should also apply to you. In other words, don't jump down people's throats because they may disagree with you. Nor, would it be appropriate for you to utter such disgusting suggestions as you have to me. I take offence to them, especially now that you are defending them so righteously.
Author
Logged
