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Topic: terrorising air passengers.. (Read 2646 times) |
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simul
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I am a lama.
 
 
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Re: virus: terrorising air passengers..
« Reply #15 on: 2004-02-10 09:38:05 » |
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Funny, I'm going skydiving in May with 20 other people and I first thought this was from that mailing list...
You can bring a marijuana brownie, with relative safety, just about anywhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: "Jake Sapiens" <every1hz@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:11:38
To:"virus" <virus@lucifer.com>
Subject: Re: virus: terrorising air passengers..
Cool! can I bring my crack pipe and a rock or two? I mean if we're gonna
fly, let's fly!! I could probably put up with a lot more preachy bad
behavior if they would just let me smoke pot on the plane.
Love,
-Jake
> [Original Message]
> From: Erik Aronesty <erik@zoneedit.com>
> To: <virus@lucifer.com>
> Date: 02/09/2004 6:47:24 PM
> Subject: Re: virus: terrorising air passengers..
>
> They have smoking flights.
> ---
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--- Jake Sapiens
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Re:terrorising air passengers..
« Reply #16 on: 2004-02-10 17:06:25 » |
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Mermaid
Sent: 10 February 2004 11:13 AM
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: RE: virus: Re:terrorising air passengers..
[quote from: Blunderov on 2004-02-09 at 10:28:21] Yes I do believe I
am. Unless they express opinions which militate against the venture that
they have undertaken to foster, I can see no reason to preclude them
from expressing themselves as they see fit.
Presuming that the passengers were under no compulsion to comply with
the pilot's suggestion, it is not clear to me that the pilot had harmed
the airlines interests and, who knows, he may even have enhanced them.
[Mermaid]Ok. Here is another example. What about a visit to your
neighbourhood post office and the clerk behind the counter passes on
religious literature(say..passages from the koran that she finds
fascinating after her recent conversion) along with your book of stamps.
You dont know her. You are not a moslem. She is not doing it in her free
time, but slips it as its a splendid opportunity to spread her passion
during her work hours.
1.How would you react?
2.How would someone who is not you react?
3.How should the post office which pays her salary for her time spent
behind the counter to do her job react?
4.Do you also believe that stealing office stationery and supplies is
alright?
An employer pays an employee for his time and skill. One is hired for
one's time and one's abilities to add value to the employer's raw
resources. If a pilot's actions/words loses an airline customers, it
most definitely interferes with the airline's ability to do business
profitably. It is no more about rights, but it becomes an issue of
abused resources by the employee. Just my two cents.
[Blunderov] Yes well, I am having second thoughts. Jake's point about
the captive audience is very salient.
But to answer your questions...
1. This sort of thing does happen to me quite often actually. Apparently
my appearance is that of an obviously lost soul. Misdirected but
redeemable you can see them thinking. (It used to work quite well in the
mating game too; sadly, those days are probably gone forever.) But the
post office clerk in your example would not offend me.
2. Hard to say. I have never heard anyone complain about such a thing.
Well maybe once. My daughter claimed to have a teacher of the 'born
again' variety who was convinced that bar codes were the mark of the
devil. Her credibility with the pupils was not enhanced by her frequent
utterances to this effect.
(It is just possible other people would be less inclined to be as
gleeful at the sight of the faithful making idiots of themselves as I
might be.)
3. I suppose it depends where the post office is. Round these parts post
offices, and indeed many other offices, frequently have little notices
to effect that Jesus is a jolly good thing festooned about their
workspaces. Often these blandishments are accompanied by pictures of
fluffy kittens and rotund children. Sunsets too, are by no means
uncommon in these tableux.
(I have never been into an Islamic shop without there being at least one
verse from the Koran, lavishly framed and prominently displayed. I think
that perhaps you are not even allowed to have a shop if you do not have
a blessing from the Islamic equivalent of the Beth Din but this is just
a guess.)
It seems to me that a postmaster might easily decide to let sleeping
dogs lie. A thoughtful postmaster might conclude that comparatively
little harm is being occasioned compared to the high dudgeon that might
follow a ban. True, if there were any actual complaints he might feel
compelled to have a reluctant word.
4. With regard to office supplies and stationary I am proud to say that
I do not think it is OK to steal them.
Whether it is ethical to use the companies time to further ones own
personal agenda is a horse of a different colour. In the case we are
considering, the clerk passes on her message simultaneously with the
book of stamps; it is not clear to me that, under these circumstances,
she has embezzled any company time at all.
But what if she did use some company time for her own purposes? For my
part, the perfect postmaster would only concern himself as to whether
she had completed the work required of her. To claim that she could, in
theory, have accomplished more if she had devoted the whole of her
attention to her task is, to my mind, insufficient. I think she could
only reasonably be critcised on the basis of a concrete example of a
shortcoming.
I see that the French have ratified a ban on religious emblems and I do
feel a bit conflicted about it.
On the one hand I am happy to see religion driven a little further out
of places of learning and on the other I can't help feeling that it is a
bit oppressive to censor personal clothing.
I would be much happier if everyone became persuaded by the sheer force
of reason that they had no more need for these artifacts.
Best Regards.
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simul
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Re: virus: Re:terrorising air passengers..
« Reply #17 on: 2004-02-10 21:30:45 » |
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The problem is NOT the customer's reaction. Freedom of speech protects the postman. However, freedom cuts both ways. How do we know that the postman was not coerced into promoting his literature? The problem is that when you mix religion with the workplace, you create intractable opportunities for religious nepotism and discrimination.
This happened in the past and it was excessive. I think today's close-mouthed “only talk about the weather” society can be equally oppressive.
So it' a preemptive strategy.
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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Mermaid
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Re:terrorising air passengers..
« Reply #18 on: 2004-02-16 11:05:58 » |
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update!
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uspilo153671409feb15,0,3212535.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines
[Mermaid]Hey Blunderov...at this point, i can only laugh...much mirth....
<begin snip>
Passenger: On a Wing and a Prayer
Says pilot credited God with fixing plane's brakes
By Molly Knight
THE BALTIMORE SUN; The Baltimore Sun is a Tribune Co. newspaper.
February 15, 2004
Perhaps it was just a mechanical glitch that caused the brakes on American Airlines Flight 34 to temporarily malfunction and, moments later, start up again - just in time for takeoff.
But Capt. Rodger K. Findiesen seemed to think something more was at work. Whatever the cause, the Annapolis, Md., pilot's spiritual zeal was aroused that day at Los Angeles International Airport, one passenger recalls.
Bruce C. Steele, a journalist traveling on the JFK-bound flight, spoke to Findiesen after the plane landed about why he asked Christian passengers to raise their hands and share their faith. Steele said the pilot told him he was inspired after the brakes "cleared up without explanation."
"He told me that he felt God had been telling him to say something," said Steele, editor of the Advocate, a national magazine that covers the gay community. After the brakes flipped back on, Steele recalled the pilot saying, "He felt he finally had the courage to do so."
Findiesen, who had just returned from a mission to Costa Rica, has been making international headlines since he came over the intercom on a Feb. 6 flight and shared his religious enthusiasm with passengers.
Friday, American Airlines chief executive Gerard Arpey apologized for the incident. "Let me assure you that we take this very seriously and are conducting a thorough investigation," Arpey wrote to Abraham Foxman, director of the Anti-Defamation League.
Suspended from flying pending an investigation by the airline, Findiesen has declined interview requests. In a recent e-mail to a Baltimore Sun reporter, he wrote: "Jesus said, 'Let your no mean no' and my 'no comment' to you means exactly that."
While Findiesen remains silent, his actions have ignited a fiery debate on religious expression - one that's being played out in the news, on the Internet and in conversations among religious leaders.
According to news reports, Findiesen's voice came over the intercom while Flight 34 waited on the tarmac in Los Angeles, second in line for takeoff. Instead of offering his passengers details on flight times or weather conditions, he cited a statistic - that more than half of the country are Christians - before asking Christians in the cabin to identify themselves. Finally, he was quoted as saying: "You can use your time wisely on this flight, or you can sit back and watch the movie."
An airline spokesman said it will look further into the nature of Findiesen's statements, in particular his use of the word "crazy." Some passengers reportedly said the pilot called non-Christians "crazy." Steele said he thought Findiesen meant that the Christian passengers were "crazy" for raising their hands.
"I was definitely made to feel nervous, as were a lot of the people around me," said passenger Amanda Nelligan of Los Angeles.
<end snip>
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Re:terrorising air passengers..
« Reply #19 on: 2004-02-16 13:03:39 » |
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Mermaid
Sent: 16 February 2004 06:06 PM
[Mermaid]Hey Blunderov...at this point, i can only laugh...much
mirth....
[Blunderov]lol Mermaid
<Musing on what the question from the reporter must have been>
[Baltimore Sun reporter] How do you respond to criticisms that you are
unable to undertake the simplest action without first having recourse to
religious authority ?
[Pilot] "Jesus said, 'Let your no mean no' and my 'no comment' to you
means exactly that."
Best Regards
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Re:terrorising air passengers..
« Reply #21 on: 2004-02-17 03:06:41 » |
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Eva-Lise Carlstrom
Sent: 17 February 2004 02:59 AM
> [Pilot] "Jesus said, 'Let your no mean no' and my
> 'no comment' to you means exactly that."
When on earth did Jesus say that??
--Eva
[Blunderov]
"Let your yes be yes and your no, no. Anything beyond this comes from
the evil one." Matthew 5.37 *
(I presume that 'proper' Christians would decline to take the oath in a
court of law and instead choose to make an affirmation in lieu thereof?
In the light of this it seems odd that the practice of swearing "...so
help me God" should have become established at all.)
What form does the oath take in American courts of law? And does it
impinge upon the separation of church and state?
Best regards
* "From that staggering account
of the sermon on the mount
which I don't pretend to understand at all"
Leonard Cohen - "Democracy" from the CD "The Future", ** Columbia 1992
** The Future
IMV, essential listening to anyone interested in popular culture. (This
album was used extensively by Oliver Stone on the soundtrack of his
movie "Natural Born Killers".)
Simultaneously dark and coruscating, it is wide ranging in its
examination of modern times.
(Sexual Politics)
"...from the homicidal bitching
that goes down in every kithen
to determine who will serve and who will eat"
(Consumerism)
"Give me crack and anal sex
Take the only tree that's left
And stuff it up the hole
In your culture"
(Death)
"I missed you since the place got wrecked
By the winds of change and the weeds of sex
Looks like freedom but it feels like death
It's something in between I guess
It's closing time."
(Quantum mechanics - for Walter!)
"It's coming from the feel
that it aint exactly real
or it's real but it aint exactly there."
For my money, an altogether more edifying production than the sermon on
the mount!
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Re:terrorising air passengers..
« Reply #22 on: 2004-02-17 03:06:41 » |
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Don't have the time to research this properly but I think it may have
been from 'the sermon on the mount'.
("From the staggering account of the sermon on the mount
Which I don't pretend to understand at all"
Leonard Cohen - "The Future")
Best Regards
Blunderov
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf
Of Eva-Lise Carlstrom
Sent: 17 February 2004 02:59 AM
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: RE: virus: Re:terrorising air passengers..
> [Pilot] "Jesus said, 'Let your no mean no' and my
> 'no comment' to you
> means exactly that."
When on earth did Jesus say that??
--Eva
__________________________________
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Mermaid
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Bite me!
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RE: virus: Re:terrorising air passengers..
« Reply #23 on: 2004-02-17 09:15:18 » |
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Quote from: Blunderov on 2004-02-17 03:06:41 * "From that staggering account
of the sermon on the mount
which I don't pretend to understand at all"
Leonard Cohen - "Democracy" from the CD "The Future", ** Columbia 1992
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[Mermaid]I like the lyrics..biting..
(begin lyrics)It's coming through a hole in the air,
from those nights in Tiananmen Square.
It's coming from the feel
that this ain't exactly real,
or it's real, but it ain't exactly there.
From the wars against disorder,
from the sirens night and day,
from the fires of the homeless,
from the ashes of the gay:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.
It's coming through a crack in the wall;
on a visionary flood of alcohol;
from the staggering account
of the Sermon on the Mount
which I don't pretend to understand at all.
It's coming from the silence
on the dock of the bay,
from the brave, the bold, the battered
heart of Chevrolet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A. (pause lyrics)
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