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Topic: Where are all the Aliens? (Read 1122 times) |
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Bass
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Where are all the Aliens?
« on: 2007-06-06 18:38:34 » |
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Something a little more interesting I found and have been pondering over.
A group of astronomers recently attended a round-table discussion in London, with the UK science minister Malcolm Wicks, titled "Is there life out there? Other Earth-like or Habitable planets."
You can read the article here: Is there life out there? Almost definitely, say UK scientists
They boldly predict that we'll find life on Mars in the year 2015, and life in other solar systems in 2020.
I don't know if their predictions are so accurate because they already know something we don't, but if we look at the general picture of the search for extraterrestrial life, it seems that this prediction may not be so preposterous after all. The last year alone brought us some very important discoveries in space, and every day, there are news about a new technological development that will bring the aliens closer to Earth. Well, not technically, but anyway, you get the idea.
For example, for the first time in history, an alien planet outside our solar system is proven to have water in its atmosphere. It's not liquid, but it proves water can exist on many extrasolar planets. So far, around 240 planets have been discovered outside our solar system and at least one of them is suited for life.
Also this year, the search for extraterrestrial life has taken an unexpected twist as European astronomers have just detected an incredible planet, bearing a striking resemblance to our Earth, which could mean that we're not alone in the universe.
The planet is the most Earth-like ever spotted and is thought to have perfect conditions for water, an essential ingredient for life.
OK, so we're getting closer to finding aliens. Supposing that, in the year 2020, the biggest news will be "We found the aliens," what would this mean? Most probably, we would have spotted a planet with obvious signs of intelligent life, maybe one glowing in the dark due to the artificial lights, much like our Earth does.
The biggest problem will be the fact that we won't be able to tell anyone but ourselves. Since we've already explored the close vicinity of the solar system, the potential inhabited planet would most likely be located at several light years away, if not hundreds or thousands.
Unfortunately, we won't be able to tell them we found them, since any signal sent toward that planet will take at least a few hundreds of years to get there.
So, we will probably be forced to look at them, but nothing more. Who knows, maybe they'll be looking at us in the same time, being themselves incapable of interstellar travel.
So, why do you think we havnt met any Aliens, or when do you suppose we could?
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Where are all the Aliens?
« Reply #1 on: 2007-06-06 19:33:22 » |
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Well, there is the issue of the universal critical mass of heavier (than Boron) elements, especially carbon, in the universe, which would be necessary to support life of our complexity. Furthermore there would have to be some figuring for likely catastrophes (and our planet has already had a few) that would impede the development of intelligent/techological life. Finally there would be an issue of discovery time . . . and so far we've practically had less than a 100 year window of our 10,000 or so year existence of loosely continuous civilization, to find others. Likewise any other intelligent life has likely had less time than that100 years to discover us, if due to nothing else other than distance unless they have managed by some technological trick to overcome the observational limits of the speed of light. In any case their window for finding is very likely no greater than our window for finding them.
So the shortest answer is that we, and they, have only just barely begun to bridge whatever distance issues we have between us. If we make contact sooner rather than later, the chances are that its because they are more advanced than us, and if terrestial history has any bearing on the issue then that doesn't bode well for us. So I think the optimistic answer is be patient and if we are lucky, we find them first. I personally don't doubt they are out there, the only question is how far away, and how long have they been there, which in astronomical terms is fairly close to the same question.
In the mean time it might make some sense to try to preserve, and not inadvertently wipe out what we have so far. The problem of those "unknown unknowns" . . . perhaps the wisest words ever uttered by our most famous still-living incompetent human being, Donald Rumsfeld. 
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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teh
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Re:Where are all the Aliens?
« Reply #2 on: 2007-06-06 23:02:11 » |
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A thread on the bbs, Why We Haven't Met Any Aliens, started on 2006-05-03
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Bass
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Re:Where are all the Aliens?
« Reply #3 on: 2007-06-08 13:02:01 » |
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Thanks for your opinions Mo, some interesting thoughts.
teh, thanks for the link.
I have also found this, the "God" theory which may be even more plausible now that they've found a VERY interesting archaeological site that they are calling the new "stargate".
http://www.onelight.com/hollow/peruvianstargate.htm
It talks about an Incan creation called "The gate of the Gods" (as it says on the page) in which Gods would go in or out as well as 'warriors' for inspections and what not. Ironically if you read further on the construction is built seven meters in height and width and has yet to be "opened". It's also been a place of many UFO sightings.
To further expand on my own thoughts here, it is really irresponsible to flat out deny the existence of alien life. We will meet them sooner or later. If they are technologically advanced, why would they come here? We have to find them.
I doubt they look like us, though. The composition of other planets are so different from ours. It isn't likely to happen for awhile. A lot of funds are tied up in other areas, and space travel isn't "hip" anymore.
Regards
Bass
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Blunderov
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Re:Where are all the Aliens?
« Reply #4 on: 2007-06-08 14:56:54 » |
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Quote from: Bass on 2007-06-08 13:02:01 <snip> it is really irresponsible to flat out deny the existence of alien life. We will meet them sooner or later. If they are technologically advanced, why would they come here? We have to find them. </snip>
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[Blunderov] It seems improbable that we will meet aliens in Peru. My guess is that this "gateway" is symbolic. Sympathetic magic interactions with the "other side" are the chief preoccupation of almost all ancient art and this seems no different in essence, local rumours notwithstanding.
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Bass
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Re:Where are all the Aliens?
« Reply #5 on: 2007-06-10 20:19:01 » |
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Looks like we may have already been visited by extraterrestrials.
I just caught sight of, and was reading, a report about the Phoenix UFO :
Source - Wikipedia; Phoenix Lights.
The Phoenix Lights, sometimes referred to as "the Lights over Phoenix", is the popular name given to a series of optical phenomena that took place in the sky over the U.S. states of Arizona, Nevada and the Mexican state of Sonora on March 13, 1997. Lights of varying descriptions were seen by thousands of people between 19:30 and 22:30 MST, in a space of about 300 miles, from the Nevada line, through Phoenix, to the edge of Tucson. There were two distinct events involved in the incident: a triangular formation of lights seen to pass over the state, and a series of stationary lights seen in the Phoenix area. The United States Air Force (USAF) identified the second group of lights as flares dropped by A-10 Warthog aircraft which were on training exercises at the Barry Goldwater Range at Luke Air Force Base. Unidentified flying objects (UFO) proponents claimed both groups of lights were part of aircraft unknown to man.
Initial reports
At about 18:55 PST, (19:55 MST), a man reported seeing a V-shaped object above Henderson, Nevada. He said it was about the "size of a (Boeing) 747", sounded like "rushing wind" [1], and had six lights on its leading edge. The lights reportedly traversed northwest to the southeast.
An unidentified former police officer from Paulden, Arizona is also claimed to have been the next person to report a sighting after leaving his house at about 20:15 MST. As he was driving north, he reputedly saw a cluster of reddish or orange lights in the sky, comprising four lights together and a fifth light trailing them. Each of the individual lights in the formation appeared to the witness to consist of two separate point sources of orange light. He returned home and through binoculars watched the lights until they disappeared south over the horizon.
Click here for more, it's a great report.
Now, Look at this picture: A 1952 photo of a purported UFO over Passaic, New Jersey, from an FBI document.
And this one too: A claimed UFO from Brazil. The circular aura suggests it's a light in the foreground.
Could they be real?
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Where are all the Aliens?
« Reply #6 on: 2007-06-10 21:42:40 » |
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Okay,
Let me first address (although not sufficiently answer) whether we've been visited. No. As I said, I promised no real answer, I could be wrong, but its important enough to move on to the next issue for those not attracted to shiney delusions. I did however read some of the old thread conveniently linked by "Teh" . . . thank you so much.
Yes, we have a way of changing the fitness landscape . . . from those of biological fitness, to those of memetic fitness. Perhaps X-box/360 etc, and pornography may make more efficient use of the biological platform for fitness such that exponential biological growth no longer remains necessary for exponential memetic growth, (please kindly follow Teh's link to our older threads on this). I still have severe intellectual doubts that any of these latest technological enhancements have any greater bearing on making biological media obsolete, instead just make more efficient use of it and hence require less of our global population to perpetuate it at the moment. However the need for memes to replicate exponentially will soon outstrip any possiblitility to do so without the underlying biological matrix, even if they would otherwise maximize underlying replicative efficiencies greater than our most competitive underlying genes would otherwise demand. Memes simply live and die much faster than our genes can keep up with.
As Stuart Kauffman said in "Investigations" the tendency of life is to increase the possibilities of what can happen next. While techonology may open greater horizons for that beyond what we have been able to historically imagine, exponential growth is still exponential. It will only be a matter of time until we seek to exand our biological/memetic medium for growth beyond the confines of this planet, even if we may revise our previously projected schedule to do so. Perhaps the creation of AI may further postpone the need to expand beyond our planet, but with each significant change the schedule gets enhanced by smaller and smaller increments of time. It seems in my earlier lifetime some people used to seriously consider "the next 10,000 years" as significant, and now the future gets concieved in ever smaller units such that 10K years is a relative eternity to our youngest X-Box generation. With or without the need of a "meat matrix" I think it will only be a matter of time, and likely less than 10K years anyway, that the decendents of our memes shall reach out to the greater universe.
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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Fox
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Re:Where are all the Aliens?
« Reply #7 on: 2007-06-26 20:42:16 » |
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Taking into account here (as a mean universal average) that all of the stars in the observable universe approximately number around 70 sextillion (that’s a 7 followed by 22 zeros) the odds in favour of extraterrestrial life become logically and mathematically immense; enough to suggest here that our inhabited planet is not alone in harbouring life forms throughout the known universe. Similar types of non-intelligent life (i.e. Volvox, sponges, bacteria, fungi, archaea, eukaryotes, protists) are most probably very common in our universe - even to our own galaxy (which, on average, consists of around 200 to 400 billion stars) given the sheer mathematical odds and that evolution (like gravity) is a universal process; biological or astrological. But while life may be commonplace in our galaxy, I would suggest that intelligent life is either premature (like ourselves) or very rare. Given how quickly life is able to adapt and take to habitable and viable surroundings and planets (much as it did on Earth), whilst still considering the mathematical odds, I would personally sway more to the former, though plausibly being much rarer then non-intelligent life.
The question of life (besides our own) in the Milky Way only really becomes a complex one when we attempt to apply the intelligence factor into the equation. If we assume here that intelligent life is fairly common in the Milky Way then we are faced with the Fermi Paradox – which no one has yet (scientifically and evidentially) solved. Hypothetical attempts in answering this “lack of intelligence” dilemma, such as mathematical models like the Drake equation have not proven, thus far, to be of much practical use, or even accurate as it involves speculation which may not be very reliable and of which cosmological observation has yet to scientifically justify (although they can be quite fun to play with). According to the Drake equation, since the birth of the Milky Way (which is very old at around 13 billion years - give or take 800 million years), there should be (at the very lest) thousands of broadcasting civilizations in our galaxy alone today (hence the fermi paradox).
So where are they? Couldn’t there be cultures elsewhere that we just don’t know about yet?
Unfortunately this doesn’t work. The galaxy is big, but not that big – and its also very old. Once a single culture had decided to send out probes, everyone else able to listen in the galaxy would know about it within a few million years at most. Granted, around several generations of stars have to live and die before there are enough heavy elements to sustain life, but even if machine-building cultures only arose once every million years or so, they’ve had thousands of opportunities to dominate the galaxy in 10+ billion years of possible sentient existence.
So the highest possibility for intelligent life remaining is that we just cannot detect their civilizations due to them being equally (more or less; if not less so) as technologically young as ourselves. Given what we know it is safe to weyken here, due to no confirmed extraterrestrial signal or hard credible evidence regarding extraterrestrials, and since the radio SETI experiments began, that there are no intelligent civilizations within a 46 light year radius of Earth, and that we have had no ‘close encounters’ with extraterrestrials.
As to why there are no older (dominating) intelligent civilizations within our galaxy, this may perhaps be due to intense gamma ray bursts of exploding hypernovae which occur every 200 million years or so, and which (hypothetically) could sterilize a galactic area thousands of light years in diameter. This becomes especially possibly when you consider giant star clusters such as 1806-20, containing hypergiants like LBV 1806-20. An ominus possibility to say the lest.
Fox
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Fox
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Re:Where are all the Aliens?
« Reply #9 on: 2007-07-04 17:12:19 » |
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Quote from: deus|diabolus on 2007-07-04 08:08:10
Quote:| A group of researchers working at the Human Genome Project indicate that they made an astonishing scientific discovery: They believe so-called 97% non-coding sequences in human DNA is no less than genetic code of extraterrestrial life forms. |
Well, to begin with this is not a scientific discovery. It's actually little more than wide ass speculation, and a pretty ridiculous one at that of which I'm sure many evolutionary biologists would agree. The only thing which amazed me whilst reading this article is that Professors (providing we can actually deem them as such) would really risk both their reputation and careers over something so completely asinine. It seems quite clear that these 'Professors' believe, hence their folly.
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I've never expected a miracle. I will get things done myself. - Gatsu
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Blunderov
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Re:Where are all the Aliens?
« Reply #11 on: 2007-07-05 02:59:59 » |
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Quote:
[Blunderov] The picture of "Asket, the extraterrestrial human woman" seems to bear some resemblance to Joni Mitchell. This on a Canadian blog? My tail has gone all bushy again.
Some key memes keep popping up; perhaps the Discovery Institute is "smuggling with our brains" (as some of my countrymen sometimes say)?
#"The second fact is, that genes by themselves are not enough to explain evolution; there must be something more in 'the game'."
#"evolution is not what we think it is."
# "'souls' were formally incarnated on the worlds of other star systems and then traveled to Earth and decided to incarnate here in order to "boost" the spiritual evolutionary development of humanity."
#"the improbability of Homo sapiens emerging so suddenly, according to the principles of orthodox Darwinism"
#"in the light of the problems with the orthodox theory of human evolution"
#"Human ETs" seek to "uplift human consciousness and to promote the unity of religion."
#Alex Colliers alleged contact with ETs suggest that fundamentalist messages in from Christianity to Judaism to Islam, and other institutionalized religions, as well as outright apparent 'cult' groups, have been specifically placed by "hostile elements" to manipulate and control humankind.
Jesus, who many groups allege was a "Human ET" sought to inspire the social consciousness of humankind toward unity, and not to create a "Christian religion", with its sexually repressive as well as homophobic undertones, which also have been used for the execution of racism, and to legitimate atrocities like the 'slave trade'.
[Blunderov] I think it's safe to say that there's rat in the kitchen.
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