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  virus: Huge debate at Kuro5hin about headscarves and freedom
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JD
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virus: Huge debate at Kuro5hin about headscarves and freedom
« on: 2003-12-13 10:05:52 »
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Laïcité, Egalité, Fraternité - (Secularism, Equality, Fraternity) (Op-Ed)

"Lila and Alma Levy are two girls of high-school age from Aubervilliers, France who, in most countries, would probably not attract much attention to themselves. Like millions of other young women, they choose to wear a Muslim headscarf as an expression of their faith[1]. However, the two girls live in France, a secular country which does not tolerate any sign of religious expression in public places which might jeopardise their notion of laïcité (state atheism practised as an evangelical religion) and is moving towards a ban on the wearing of all visible religious emblems in public schools and possibly hospitals.[2]. Consequently, the two sisters have been told not to return to the Lycée Henri Wallon (high school); the pretext for this decision being that they are causing a disturbance by coming to school wearing veils."

Read on http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/12/12/153149/40

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Jonathan
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David Lucifer
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Re: virus: Huge debate at Kuro5hin about headscarves and freedom
« Reply #1 on: 2003-12-13 12:50:22 »
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Jonathan Davis wrote:
> Laïcité, Egalité, Fraternité - (Secularism, Equality, Fraternity)

Yes, interesting debate. What do you think it the right course of
action in this case? Does it matter whether the school is public or
private? Does it matter whether the article of clothing is required
or proscribed? Does it matter whether the clothing is religious or not?

David

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Re: virus: Huge debate at Kuro5hin about headscarves and freedom
« Reply #2 on: 2003-12-15 01:37:24 »
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....how would such garb be defined?  it seems quite impossible outside of
tthe classic, "oh, you know what we're talking about" parameters.  what if
blue jeans were deemed the religous token of some new religion?  can non
arabs wear arab garb?



DrSebby.
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----Original Message Follows----
From: "David McFadzean" <david@lucifer.com>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: <virus@lucifer.com>
Subject: Re: virus: Huge debate at Kuro5hin about headscarves and freedom
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:50:22 -0500

Jonathan Davis wrote:
> Laïcité, Egalité, Fraternité - (Secularism, Equality, Fraternity)

Yes, interesting debate. What do you think it the right course of
action in this case? Does it matter whether the school is public or
private? Does it matter whether the article of clothing is required
or proscribed? Does it matter whether the clothing is religious or not?

David

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Zloduska
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Re:virus: Huge debate at Kuro5hin about headscarves and freedom
« Reply #3 on: 2003-12-20 04:45:01 »
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If head scarves are going to be declared verboten, they should outlaw the wearing of wool hats and gloves in the wintertime as well.  That'll teach'em!  Odd how only a couple countries away in Central/Eastern Europe a headscarf (aka babushka is an ordinary garment worn by practically every woman over the age of 40.  Hrm.
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David Lucifer
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Re:virus: Huge debate at Kuro5hin about headscarves and freedom
« Reply #4 on: 2004-01-07 09:41:05 »
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From Mermaid

Quote:

Germany too is considering a ban on muslim headscarves for school teachers
or anyone working in the public sector. Obviously, it doesnt apply to xian
crucifixes(which i think is a cool fashion statement more than a religious
symbol) or the jewish skullcap. if i were to wear a bindi in germany, will i
be banned from teaching in a public school? how about the other 'religious'
trappings? how about a wedding ring? surely, its religious. its obviously
judeo xian. nobody in india wears a ring as a symbol of marriage. if my
hindu symbol of marriage(mangalsutra which is not only specific to hindusim
but is also unique among differnt hindu sects, toe rings, bangles, bindi,
anklets) considered religious or cultural? if people knew the significance
of anklets that married women wear, they too would be banned as a 'symbol of
oppression'...

if i lived in germany or france, i would most definitely take up wearing a
headscarf...unfortunately, its not much of a statement outside of france or
germany...are there any virians from germany or france here...would *you*
wear islamic attire or symbol if you believed that its wrong to try to force
someone to give up their preferences for attire with a law. in fact, this is
open for everyone...if, in your country, a certain religion is discriminated
against, would you protest and how? would you still protest if the religion
was islam?

what started this:
http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/content.asp?y=2004&dt=0103&pub=Utusan_Express&sec=World&pg=wo_09.htm
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Re:virus: Huge debate at Kuro5hin about headscarves and freedom
« Reply #5 on: 2004-01-07 18:40:04 »
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I agree with "Pulling a veil over reason itself" somewhat, but I agree with Mermaid too :S

I'm concerned about kids being forced into Islam, or any other irrational religions or cultures, I know it happens even here in the UK. I guess French authorities could have a ban on a list of agreed religious things in schools.
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