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  Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
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   Author  Topic: Key Trend: The Decline of Trust  (Read 7645 times)
metahuman
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Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #15 on: 2003-12-16 20:30:55 »
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[simul]
My definition is a useful definition of trust as reasoned expectation.

Confidence does not imply faith.

Maybe you could use some military training.

[metahuman]
You would benefit from education. Go get some.
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DrSebby
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RE: virus: Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #16 on: 2003-12-17 04:01:35 »
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...you guys realize that much like other arguements over meaning we've had,
this one too is really just another example of trying to pin down the
'fuzzy' meanings of words.  the english language and its parts arent there
as absolutes...they are always beset upon by modifiers...which are also
beset upon modifiers etc.  where the buck stops is when the individual says,
"ok, I decide that 'this' has 'such-and-such' value absolutely (to me)". 
unfortunately, this 'value' will never be a universal truth amongst others.

...e.g. ---  when i "trust"...it is always regards to the actions of some
animate subject.  so i dont "trust" that the sun will come up, i
assume...which in this case is merely a calculation (previous experience
with the sun coming up, understanding of assumed astronomical research(which
i trust to be competently performed)...and so forth.  but that's just
me...others define "trust" in much more loose terms.

...anyhow, i wouldnt think that getting caught up in the fine print
regarding vague terms is going to ever resolve anything....even if a meaning
can be agreed upon...the very words within that definition can always be
challenged as to their meaning.  it's more like a consensual
understanding..which of course means there are no "truths" or absolutes
therein.



DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".





----Original Message Follows----
From: "metahuman" <v1@metavirus.net>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:30:55 -0700

[simul]
My definition is a useful definition of trust as reasoned expectation.

Confidence does not imply faith.

Maybe you could use some military training.

[metahuman]
You would benefit from education. Go get some.

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simul
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Re: virus: Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #17 on: 2003-12-17 16:59:26 »
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I defined the term, and then I used it as defined.

Terms like trust require definition to be useful.

I say we should vote on a Virian definition of trust before we continue talking about it.

And I would propose that we use checkbozes for the vote, and that my definition, or an approximation of it be on the list as well as metahuman's.

That should settle it.
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
metahuman
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Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #18 on: 2003-12-17 22:41:45 »
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I disagree, simul.

I'm in the first phase (research) of writing a document/article on trust. It'll probably be around 5-10 pages. I'll design it into a PDF when I'm done, but I prefer that the Virus meme doesn't jump the gun by deciding a definition of "trust" too soon. More of us need to do more research and deeper thinking on the matter than simply posting simpleton knee-jerk reactions. *looks at you* ;p
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DrSebby
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Re: virus: Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #19 on: 2003-12-17 22:53:45 »
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...that would be meaningless since those that disagree with any given
definition would continue to disagree with it regardless of the outcome. 
plus...the very verbage aspiring to establish an 'absolute' definition could
and would then be challenged.



DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".





----Original Message Follows----
From: "Erik Aronesty" <erik@zoneedit.com>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: virus: Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:59:26 -0400

I defined the term, and then I used it as defined.

Terms like trust require definition to be useful.

I say we should vote on a Virian definition of trust before we continue
talking about it.

And I would propose that we use checkbozes for the vote, and that my
definition, or an approximation of it be on the list as well as metahuman's.

That should settle it.
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"courage and shuffle the cards..."
metahuman
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Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #20 on: 2003-12-18 01:45:59 »
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DrSebby: Stop smoking crack.
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DrSebby
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RE: virus: Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #21 on: 2003-12-18 03:31:27 »
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...i assume youre suggesting that my overview of the definition thing was
incorrect.  if so...put it simply and tell me.



DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".





----Original Message Follows----
From: "metahuman" <v1@metavirus.net>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:46:00 -0700

DrSebby: Stop smoking crack.

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metahuman
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Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #22 on: 2003-12-18 06:21:55 »
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DrSebby: The claim that something is "meaningless" is instantly wrong the moment it is communicated.
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simul
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Re: virus: Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #23 on: 2003-12-18 16:48:34 »
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DrSebby: The claim that something is "meaningless" is instantly wrong the moment it is communicated.

A wise comment that misses one point.  The meaning it has is only the meaning that we add to it.  Everything is meaningless, until we add meaning.  Even that statement.
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
Rhysenn
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Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #24 on: 2003-12-18 17:49:40 »
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The meaning it has is only the meaning that we add to it.  Everything is meaningless, until we add meaning.

seems we have some existentialists in here. i'm quite fond of existentialism myself.
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metahuman
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Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #25 on: 2003-12-18 19:42:44 »
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[simul]
A wise comment that misses one point.  The meaning it has is only the meaning that we add to it.  Everything is meaningless, until we add meaning.  Even that statement.

[metahuman]
Irrelevant.

We have no other perception than our own.

By the way, I didn't "miss" that idea. It just wasn't required or needed.
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metahuman
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Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #26 on: 2003-12-18 19:44:12 »
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[Rhysenn]
seems we have some existentialists in here. i'm quite fond of existentialism myself.

[meta]
I was told that Jesus H. Christ was an Existentialist.
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simul
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Re: virus: Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #27 on: 2003-12-18 19:32:25 »
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We define all sorts of things at COV... Like hypocricy.

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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
DrSebby
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Re: virus: Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #28 on: 2003-12-18 20:45:42 »
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DrSebby: The claim that something is "meaningless" is instantly wrong the
moment it is communicated.

A wise comment that misses one point.  The meaning it has is only the
meaning that we add to it.  Everything is meaningless, until we add meaning.
  Even that statement.
---

...wadda ya mean??!  if you mean that my meaningful statement doesnt hold
the same meaning for you as it means for me, i suggest that you look at the
mean average of our meanings and make that your meaning as opposed to
playing eany, meany, miny, moe with the meaningful ramifications of this
meeting...and mean it when you make it, meany.

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metahuman
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Re:Key Trend: The Decline of Trust
« Reply #29 on: 2003-12-18 21:12:17 »
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LOL!

Like I said, Sebmasta, stop smoking crack. 
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