It has long been accepted that there is a lowest possible temperature, known as absolute zero, at which the constituent atoms do not vibrate at all. It is less frequently stated, but seems to be assumed, that there is, however, no highest possible temperature; in other words, that, unlike the low-temperature absolute-zero closure, that high temperature is open-ended. But there is indeed a limit to the possible vibratory speed of atoms, and that is, of course, c, or the speed of light. It seems to me that one should be able to correlate vibratory speed with temperature and arrive at a maximum possible temperature, beyond which the constituent atoms could not vibrate faster due to c restrictions. Any comments? --- To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
> It has long been accepted that there is a lowest possible temperature, > known as absolute zero, at which the constituent atoms do not vibrate > at all. It is less frequently stated, but seems to be assumed, that there > is, however, no highest possible temperature; in other words, that, > unlike the low-temperature absolute-zero closure, that high temperature > is open-ended. But there is indeed a limit to the possible vibratory > speed of atoms, and that is, of course, c, or the speed of light. It seems > to me that one should be able to correlate vibratory speed with > temperature and arrive at a maximum possible temperature, beyond > which the constituent atoms could not vibrate faster due to c > restrictions. Any comments? > --- > To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
--
Walter Watts Tulsa Network Solutions, Inc.
"No one gets to see the Wizard! Not nobody! Not no how!"
> Yes, I have comments. > > However, I've been in bed for 3 days coughing myself a new asshole, so > I'll defer til later. > > Walter > Sorry; I really feel for you. That RSV is a mofo! Been there, coughed till I puked and shit myself. And it hangs on for six weeks! > > joedees@bellsouth.net wrote: > > > It has long been accepted that there is a lowest possible > > temperature, known as absolute zero, at which the constituent atoms > > do not vibrate at all. It is less frequently stated, but seems to > > be assumed, that there is, however, no highest possible temperature; > > in other words, that, unlike the low-temperature absolute-zero > > closure, that high temperature is open-ended. But there is indeed a > > limit to the possible vibratory speed of atoms, and that is, of > > course, c, or the speed of light. It seems to me that one should be > > able to correlate vibratory speed with temperature and arrive at a > > maximum possible temperature, beyond which the constituent atoms > > could not vibrate faster due to c restrictions. Any comments? --- > > To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to > > <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l> > > -- > > Walter Watts > Tulsa Network Solutions, Inc. > > "No one gets to see the Wizard! Not nobody! Not no how!" > > > --- > To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to > <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
Re: virus: A High Temperature Head-Scratcher
« Reply #3 on: 2003-02-24 13:11:10 »
----- Original Message ----- From: <joedees@bellsouth.net> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 2:46 PM
> is open-ended. But there is indeed a limit to the possible vibratory > speed of atoms, and that is, of course, c, or the speed of light. It seems > to me that one should be able to correlate vibratory speed with > temperature and arrive at a maximum possible temperature, beyond > which the constituent atoms could not vibrate faster due to c > restrictions. Any comments?
If you plug c into the molecular speed formula from [1] (using the root mean square from the distribution, since there is no max velocity formula), you get 3.6e+15 K.
However this page [2] about the early universe says that the earliest temperature was 1e+32 K and by the time there were particles to vibrate it had dropped to 1e+15 K (remarkably close to my calc above).
> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <joedees@bellsouth.net> > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 2:46 PM > > > > is open-ended. But there is indeed a limit to the possible > > vibratory speed of atoms, and that is, of course, c, or the speed of > > light. It > seems > > to me that one should be able to correlate vibratory speed with > > temperature and arrive at a maximum possible temperature, beyond > > which the constituent atoms could not vibrate faster due to c > > restrictions. Any comments? > > If you plug c into the molecular speed formula from [1] (using the > root mean square from the distribution, since there is no max velocity > formula), you get 3.6e+15 K. > > However this page [2] about the early universe says that the earliest > temperature was 1e+32 K and by the time there were particles to > vibrate it had dropped to 1e+15 K (remarkably close to my calc above). > > [1] http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/kinetic/kintem.html [2] > http://casswww.ucsd.edu/public/tutorial/BB.html > Interesting. I guess I'm onto something. > --- > To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to > <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
Re:virus: A High Temperature Head-Scratcher
« Reply #5 on: 2003-03-15 12:16:12 »
[David Lucifer] If you plug c into the molecular speed formula from [1] (using the root mean square from the distribution, since there is no max velocity formula), you get 3.6e+15 K.
However this page [2] about the early universe says that the earliest temperature was 1e+32 K and by the time there were particles to vibrate it had dropped to 1e+15 K (remarkably close to my calc above).
[rhinoceros] Hmm... The relativistic increase of the mass is missing.
1/2 mv^2 = 3/2 kT
When the speed of the particles v approaches c, the mass m approaches infinity, and T approaches infinity as well. No upper limit for T using this model.
We could look into the actual properties of matter and space-time to find out whether there is an absolute maximum temperature. An answer is the Planck Temperature T = 10^32K. This temperature corresponds to the maximum enegy density possible before a gravitation collapse happens -- that is, before the particles become black holes.
I am afraid this is not the end of the story. There have been given more generalised definitions of temperature in thermodynamics and in laser physics (phase inversions), covering more than the kinetic model. There is even a concept of negative temperature (below absolute zero). You can take a look here: