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Topic: virus: Possible chat topics for 03.02.04 21:00 CST (Read 578 times) |
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MoEnzyme
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virus: Possible chat topics for 03.02.04 21:00 CST
« on: 2003-02-02 22:10:30 » |
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I haven't really settled on one topic, and I think we are therefore open to
any compelling suggestions as well, so I will say this next chat topic will
be a surprise. I am going to see how that goes for a change of pace.
A few possibilities that have crossed my mind 1) UTism; is it ever
reasonable? 2) Empathy and Reason, is one more important, or how can they
work together? 3) The Columbia accident, and the CoV position re: NASA and
space exploration?
Perhaps one of those or one that you come up with. Please either post or
Email suggestions to me. And more importantly show up! If there is a topic
you want to talk about, we may entertain it. We will just see what works
with the people we get.
Love,
-Jake
attached: index.html
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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DrSebby
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...Oh, you smell of lambs!
     
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Re: virus: Possible chat topics for 03.02.04 21:00 CST
« Reply #1 on: 2003-02-02 22:21:45 » |
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empathy and reason sounds like a great one!
DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".
empathy a
----Original Message Follows----
From: Jkr438@aol.com
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Possible chat topics for 03.02.04 21:00 CST
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:10:30 EST
I haven't really settled on one topic, and I think we are therefore open to
any compelling suggestions as well, so I will say this next chat topic will
be a surprise. I am going to see how that goes for a change of pace.
A few possibilities that have crossed my mind 1) UTism; is it ever
reasonable? 2) Empathy and Reason, is one more important, or how can they
work together? 3) The Columbia accident, and the CoV position re: NASA and
space exploration?
Perhaps one of those or one that you come up with. Please either post or
Email suggestions to me. And more importantly show up! If there is a topic
you want to talk about, we may entertain it. We will just see what works
with the people we get.
Love,
-Jake
n
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"courage and shuffle the cards..."
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BillRoh
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Re:virus: Possible chat topics for 03.02.04 21:00 CST
« Reply #2 on: 2003-02-04 10:33:30 » |
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I like empathy and reason, as well as UTism (there need to be some friends of UTism there, like me), heck, I like the shuttle talk too. All good topics.
I'll do my very best to be there. This happens at the exact time I put my lil boy to bed.
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rhinoceros
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My point is ...
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Re:virus: Possible chat topics for 03.02.04 21:00 CST
« Reply #3 on: 2003-02-05 13:28:07 » |
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[rhinoceros]
So, UTism was the topic of our scheduled chat yesterday. Us vs Them.
"UTism: When is it reasonable?"
The chat was lively and somehow interesting as a brainstorming session. There are a couple of points I would like to make. I think we went softer that we should on UTism.
First, notice the "-ism" suffix. It does sound negative. By analogy, think of "rationality" and "rationalism". Rationality is generally considered a good thing, while rationalism is a rather dogmatic school of thought adhering to logic, which goes against empiricism.
UTism seems to have its roots in an evolutionaly genetic survival mechanism, group affiliation, which is responsible for things such as family and tribe. This genetic trend by itself, however, does not necessarily generate UTism. It can simply make the group more efficient.
The memetic factor is also responsible for group affiliation. It is partly responsible for family and tribe affiliation, and fully responsible for more extended forms of group affiliation such as nations. It seems reasonable to assert that the memetic factor is responsible for boosting group affiliation into UTism (as in the case of ultra-nationalism and racism) or for keeping the extreme manifestations of group affiliation under control (as in the case of international cooperation and international law).
We already had two descriptions of UTism in CoV. The first one was in the Lexicon:
http://virus.lucifer.com/lexicon_6.html
<quote from The Lexicon>
"UTISM: UTism is short for 'us-versus-them-ism.' Dogmatic adherence to a belief system can create an 'us vs. them' mentality in the believer. The 'us' group consists of people who share our beliefs, and the 'them' group consists of those who hold conflicting beliefs. (KMO)"
<end quote>
The second one (a better one in my opinion) was in the Virus Wiki.
http://virus.lucifer.com/wiki/UTism
<quote from the Virus Wiki>
"A way of thinking that we can also describe as "pseudo-speciation". This culminates in the exaggeration of some difference(s) between people (e.g. race, language, religion, etc.) by which adherents divide the social world into an "US" designated to recieve the empathy and comforts of human society, and a "THEM" who frequently may get demoted to subhuman status and against whom "we" may deem violence appropriate. This often occurs implicitly, but may even manifest explicitly. Frequently this thinking gets memetically reciprocated and replicated, whereby the "THEM" may respond accordingly by vewing themselves as an "US", and the other group conversely as a "THEM". This thinking entails different rules and unreasonable expectations of behavior depending on whether one deals with a member of "US" or a member of "THEM", and hence generally leads to hypocrisies in behavior and thinking, not to mention the dangers for violence."
<end quote>
In my opinion, group affiliation itself is somethig natural and reasonable. Both "Us" and "Them" exist (by nationality, economic status, race, religion, even football team), and it is to be expected that "Them" may have their own group affiliation as well. But UTism is always bad, and should be confronted. UTism presupposes dogmatism (a virian sin) and lack of empathy (a virian virtue). Although it is theoretically possible that "Us" may have to harm "Them" under some circumstances, this should only happen under the conditions of reason, empathy, vision, non-dogmatism, non-apathy, and non-hypocricy.
Amen 
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MoEnzyme
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Re: virus: Possible chat topics for 03.02.04 21:00 CST
« Reply #4 on: 2003-02-05 18:07:24 » |
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Thanks for your summary. Though I was unable to make it due to unforeseen
circumstances, I am happy to know that my wiki definition was there for me.
It sounds like it was a very good chat. I will read it in the logs this
evening. Thanks, and I look forward to be present for next week's chat.
Love,
-Jake
attached: index.html
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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MoEnzyme
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Rate MoEnzyme
infidel lab animal
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virus: possible chat topics for 03.02.11 2100CST
« Reply #5 on: 2003-02-10 02:03:15 » |
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Here are a few ideas that I was thinking about for the regular Tuesday chat.
If you have any other ideas feel free to suggest them. If you show up we may
just talk about it.
1) UTism, is it ever reasonable? Possibly continuing last Tuesday's chat, it
was a great chat leading me to think we might have more to say about it.
2) How can we compete? The Sunday chat groups' first topic, suggested by
Limbic. see our Email list thread by the same name.
3) Those wacky Transhumanist ideas! Uploading, the Singularity, immortality,
spirothetes, etc. We can pick your favorite or talk about all of them. You
might even talk me into revealing my own idea about space monkeys!
4) Empathy and Reason, is one more important, or how can they work together?
I suggested this one last week based on some of the threads that Christian
guests have pursued on the CoV BBS.
5) a topic that you come up with. :-)
See you there.
Love,
Jake
attached: index.html
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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