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Future of Evolution
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   Author  Topic: Future of Evolution  (Read 817 times)
Pabreetzio
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Future of Evolution
« on: 2005-05-22 23:32:12 »
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Q: Humans may not be products of an intelligent designer but given genetic technologies, our descendants will be. What does this mean about the future of evolution?

Dawkins: "It's an interesting thought that in some remote time in the future, people may look back on the 20th and 21st centuries as a watershed in evolution -- the time when evolution stopped being an undirected force and became a design force. Already, for the past few centuries, maybe even millennia, agriculturalists have in a sense designed the evolution of domestic animals like pigs and cows and chickens. That's increasing and we're getting more technologically clever at that by manipulating not just the selection part of evolution but also the mutation part. That will be very different; one of the great features of biological evolution up to now is that there is no foresight.
<snip>
That never happened in natural evolution; there was never a "let's temporarily get worse in order to get better, let's go down into the valley in order to get over to the other side and up onto the opposite mountain." So yes, I think it well may be that we're living in a time when evolution is suddenly starting to become intelligently designed."

I believe Dawkins fails to respond to the full pertinance of this question in regards to possibly the most successful meme he has created- the meme meme. I would have thought he would have pointed this out, but heres what he fails in saying in this interview:

Memes will be responsible for the designing of future generations. Memes such as the sceintific method lead to enough people becoming scientists in order to make these discoveries, so I definately feel that if it wernt for memes this intelligent design wouldnt be possible, if it isnt the memes themselves that are doing the designing.

This backs my view that memes become what we call God. The Metameme is God. God created humans in his immage, humans created God in their immage, memes create humans, and humans create memes- depending on how you look at it.

I want to know if anyone agrees with me, and what do you feel is the future of Evolution?
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David Lucifer
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Re:Future of Evolution
« Reply #1 on: 2005-06-03 12:03:56 »
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Quote from: Pabreetzio on 2005-05-22 23:32:12   

This backs my view that memes become what we call God. The Metameme is God. God created humans in his immage, humans created God in their immage, memes create humans, and humans create memes- depending on how you look at it.

Are you saying that if there is a god in the future it will be the product of our memes? If so, then I partly agree. If there is a god in the future it will be the product of someone's memes, but maybe an ET civilization, not ours.

The Metameme usually refers to the meme meme, that is memetics itself. I don't equate that with god.

Memes and humans co-evolved, so in a sense they created each other. Humans created the god meme, but have not yet created god. God hasn't created anything yet.
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Pabreetzio
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Re:Future of Evolution
« Reply #2 on: 2005-06-04 00:46:38 »
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i didnt know that metameme refered to the meme meme. I though I could make up my own definition, now I know what yall think of when metameme is mentioned. I dont think ill abandon using my own created word though. I looked it up, and I see where the confusion arises. Meta Data is data about data, and so I can see why you and others of the community, with your computer knowledge, think of the meme meme when you hear metameme. I am seeing the meme as another stage in biological development, however, much in the same way as the animal was developed from chemicals. primitive animals, zooids or whatever you want to call them, are very simple replicating cells. (im equating memes to cells rather than viri here) a more complicated system of these cells becomes a metazoan. So to me, a more complicated system of memes becomes a metameme- like a meme society all working together for the common good of themselves, as if they were an organism. Only instead of being called an organism they are called a god. And the ancient pagan gods were actually just that- the metamemes, collection of memes, a meme society. Its a stretch to conclude that there is one God from this, but if one looks again at the meta meta meme then one finds themselves closer once again to God. You can continue to take these steps in this direction the same way scientists take steps in the opposite direction breaking chemicals into atoms, atoms to protons, protons to quirks etc...

Back to the topic, you say God hasnt created anything yet, but what do you call his creation? God, or any god, works through man, in the same way the pharoah-gods of egypt didnt build their own pyramids, although they were real living people, neither did Zeus himself build temples. But I would argue that Cheops created a pyramid. If you say Cheops created a pyramid then a god did create something. the very ideas that Zeus embodied caused people to erect temples to him. The God that Christians know as the one and only God has created churches. You may argue he didnt build the chuch(people were holding hammers, carrying the stone, placing it) , but would the church have been built if it were not for God? churches are built by the idea of God at least... and if thats all He is than it IS God himself creating. If you still dont agree that memes are gods, then I hope you at least agree with me that memes make things happen. If a meme makes you happen, if you are intelligently designed, then you have a creator. no longer will advocates of evolution be able to say that everything just happened, and that there wasn't any particular design.

If we are intelligently designed, then can we say that we were the end result of just evolution, or will it mean that creationists start winning arguements once again that we are intelligently designed (even if it is by physical beings that dont have as many powers as we would equate with a singular God.)

My answer is that no creationists dont gain an edge all of a sudden because of the fact that evolutionists can, and in order to win the arguement I feel they MUST, explain that memes were the next step in evolution after organisms, and that our creation is a result of their evolution, not of their intelligent design, since they were merely evolved to be creators. We then become nothing more than an oversized overexagerated protein created by memes (instead of genes) to their advantage.

I would also like to point out that once we realize we are nothing more than proteins to our ideas, we will realize that our homo sapian sapian form isnt the only important protein, and that there could possibly improvments that are drastically different from ourselves. What I mean is that we would realize that it wouldnt be so bad to be replaced by computers that are at least as intelligent as us. If the future of evolution finds something better for the job of supporting memes, we may lose our place as the hegemonic meme bearers.
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Re:Future of Evolution
« Reply #3 on: 2005-07-10 19:55:33 »
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