I´m quite new here and a member just because of curiousity. You know: "Ah. A Church of Virus @ Lucifer.com, cool..."
I found the Lexicon interesting and decided to become a member of the BBS.
Now i would like to know what the CoV is, and which the central doctrines actually are. I´ve read some topics that are occult/esoteric and some are about Crowley and other filosophers &c.
Re:Church of Virus
« Reply #1 on: 2002-11-30 13:32:20 »
Some have taken the route of emphasizing the virtues reason, empathy, and reason, and avoiding the sins of apathy, hypocrisy, and dogmatism.
Some have viewed this as an exercise/experiment in community building and organization, in the pursuit of watching memetic forces at work.
Some see this as a place to exchange ideas and conversation with like minded people, and find quality opinions as well as reliable sources of knowlege.
Some see this as an audience for their soapbox.
Some see this as a place to play with new brain toys.
Some are simply interested in the people here aside from the ideas.
Some indulge in a little hand to hand flaming, and others prefer to avoid that.
It is by turns one of the more exalted places in the Internet, and by turns one of the more depraved.
It is in its darkest moments strangely optimistic.
Some have taken the route of emphasizing the virtues reason, empathy, and reason, and avoiding the sins of apathy, hypocrisy, and dogmatism.
Some have viewed this as an exercise/experiment in community building and organization, in the pursuit of watching memetic forces at work.
Some see this as a place to exchange ideas and conversation with like minded people, and find quality opinions as well as reliable sources of knowlege.
Some see this as an audience for their soapbox.
Some see this as a place to play with new brain toys.
Some are simply interested in the people here aside from the ideas.
Some indulge in a little hand to hand flaming, and others prefer to avoid that.
It is by turns one of the more exalted places in the Internet, and by turns one of the more depraved.
It is in its darkest moments strangely optimistic.
Chat 02.12/17 Church of Virus, a transhumanist religion
« Reply #5 on: 2003-02-16 14:41:48 »
This is a cleaned up log (offtopic comments, and other distractions edited out) that I thought best belonged here. Our first scheduled chat on the #virus channel. You can find the unedited version here: http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=;action=chat enjoy, Love, -Jake "Shadow"
19:11:44 Mermaid whats the topic, shadow? 19:11:48 Mermaid for the chat 19:12:36 Shadow I was going to start with Church of Virus - Tanshumanist Religion and see where it goes from there. Unless Lucifer or someone else has a better idea. 19:14:41 rhino can you elaborate on the connection 19:14:58 rhino do you mean "CoV as a Transhumanist religion"? 19:15:04 rhino or what? 19:15:40 Shadow Yes. 19:18:10 Shadow Rhino, yes. 19:48:30 rhino Shadow, do you have the definitions of "religion" and "transhumanist" ready for the presentation? 19:48:40 Shadow No. 19:48:44 Shadow I'll wing it ;-) 19:48:55 rhino sure 19:49:09 rhino but expect replies with dictionary entries 19:49:14 rhino at least for religion 19:49:16 Shadow But if anyone wants to find links into the website or BBS, that would be exellent. 19:50:48 Shadow I think for religion, I would go with basically a mythological system. Many will probably insist that religion naturally contains a superntarual element. I think this is debatable. A lot of it does, but is it strictly necessary for the functions that religion seeks to fulfill? 19:52:50 Shadow Transhumanist, basically that humanity has headed on a feedback loop whereby our very actions tend to change our nature, culminating ultimately in the genetic manipulation of the human genome precipitating a massive speciation event at some time prior to or perhaps after the singularity. 19:53:19 Shadow I think that basically sums up my PoV on those two things. 19:54:35 Shadow Shadow has changed the topic on #virus to "Church of Virus - Transhumanist Religion" 19:54:47 nrv8 religion..bah 19:54:56 Shadow Any one else that wants to fiddle with it, go ahead . . . 19:54:56 nrv8 s/religion/philosophy 19:55:41 Shadow And of course all of this remains under the auspices of the three virtues and the three sins. 19:55:57 Shadow http://virus.lucifer.com/virtues.html 19:56:09 Shadow http://virus.lucifer.com/sins.html 19:59:45 Shadow I think for religion, I would go with basically a mythological system. Many will probably insist that religion naturally contains a superntarual element. I think this is debatable. A lot of it does, but is it strictly necessary for the functions that religion seeks to fulfill? 20:00:00 Shadow Transhumanist, basically that humanity has headed on a feedback loop whereby our very actions tend to change our nature, culminating ultimately in the genetic manipulation of the human genome precipitating a massive speciation event at some time prior to or perhaps after the singularity. 20:00:39 Lucifer I agree with Shadow on religion 20:01:00 AlonzoTG speciation is fun. 20:01:00 Shadow And so here we link arms with the singularists and other thanshumanists. 20:01:07 Mermaid re mythological system? 20:01:37 Shadow Well, I think that we have a fundamental need of feeling part of an ongoing story. 20:01:38 Lucifer I basically said as much when I recently defined it on the wiki... http://virus.lucifer.com/wiki/religion 20:02:06 Lucifer The supernatural aspect of religion was an essential part in the past, but no longer 20:02:36 Lucifer I don't disagree with what Shadow said about >H 20:02:43 Mermaid what is a meaningful life? 20:02:46 Lucifer But there is more to it than bio-engineering 20:03:10 Mermaid On this site a religion is defined as an institution that has the purpose of conferring meaning onto the lives of its adherents. <end snip> 20:03:11 Lucifer Mermaid, good question! 20:03:26 Tywick hey how dare you post links to MY local paper? 20:03:38 rhino And since we do call CoV a religion in front other people, a dictionary definition should be in order 20:03:41 rhino http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=religion 20:03:44 Shadow And I think there is where religion serves functional needs. But note that believers need not necessarily subscribe to to literal belief in mythology. Witness the success of the Objectivist movement, mythology = fiction of Ayn Rand and all still could draw inspiriation in full knowledge of that. 20:03:59 rhino 4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. 20:04:16 Lucifer Are you suggesting Objectivism is a religion too? 20:04:22 Lalartu Searching for a meaning to life for you personally is okay, but universal meaning to life? I don't see how one can come to a conclusion on that. 20:04:44 Shadow Objectivism could be a religion, depending on how you are willing to drop the tags. 20:05:09 Shadow A cult even for some . . . 20:05:11 Lucifer I suspect any worthwhile answer to the meaning of life will operate on many levels, some of them universal 20:05:23 Lalartu To reproduce? 20:05:33 Lalartu At least to spread some good genes, eh? 20:05:38 Mermaid and memes 20:05:44 Shadow reproduction can be memetic or genetic. 20:05:56 Lucifer For most known life, the meaning lies in survival and reproduction 20:07:56 Mermaid so going back...survival and reproduction 20:07:57 Lucifer I'll throw out a question for anyone... What do most people want out of life? 20:08:01 Shadow So have we figured out, the CoV Transhumanist religion??? ;-) 20:08:17 Shadow A sense of control.l 20:08:17 Tywick I want Happyness 20:08:20 Mermaid i want to discover. 20:08:26 Shadow A sense of discovery. 20:08:27 Tywick I do not want strife 20:08:39 Tywick I want clarity 20:08:44 Mermaid i think strife is a package deal 20:08:50 Mermaid depending on how you want to see it.. 20:08:58 Mermaid strife can disappear if you refuse to acknowledge it 20:09:03 Shadow clarity, that would be a high accomplishment I think . . . . 20:09:15 Tywick I want simplicity 20:09:16 Lalartu You measure you happiness through your suffering. 20:09:28 Mermaid lala? 20:09:32 Shadow I think strife is always there, even if playfully. 20:09:32 Mermaid through suffering? 20:09:37 Lalartu Merm.. mhmm 20:09:44 Tywick I want to stop living in the current rat race to survive 20:09:46 Mermaid more suffering? means better life? 20:10:06 Lalartu Let me rephrase 20:10:09 Shadow Strife is a really good source of humor, don't you think ;-) 20:10:12 Lucifer Does control give you everything else you might want? 20:10:25 Mermaid hmm 20:10:27 Tywick no not control 20:10:45 Shadow Control makes some things possible that otherwise may not be. 20:11:02 Lalartu Ah, screw it, my brain is fried 20:11:07 Tywick it depends on the entities involved Shadow 20:11:22 Shadow no........no brain fying permited. 20:11:24 Mermaid can i have it with ketchup?.. 20:11:30 Lucifer What do you want that you cannot get with sufficient control? 20:11:52 Shadow It's entirely possible that I am Full of Shit, so no brain frying on my account ;-) 20:11:53 Mermaid lucifer, what do you mean by control? 20:12:07 Tywick some people need to be told what to do to do something others (like myself) will get things done if left alone 20:12:19 Lucifer The ability to affect what happens 20:12:21 AlonzoTG What bothers me is the number of people who think the inevitable goal of all civilization is to end up in a matsuka brain or something. 20:12:39 Shadow What is matsuka brain? 20:12:54 AlonzoTG Its a radical extension of the Jupiter Brain idea. 20:12:58 Tywick I guess you cold say some people are manual and others are automatic 20:13:04 Tywick err could say 20:13:17 AlonzoTG Instead of just a planet, entire galaxies are converted into "substrate"... 20:13:21 Shadow Tywick, I think all are a mixture of both. 20:13:59 Shadow Alonzo, planet brain? I don't comprehend? 20:14:05 Tywick not all Shadow 20:14:12 Tywick remember not all people are the same 20:14:20 AlonzoTG You can find it on the internet.... 20:14:37 AlonzoTG A jupiter brain is where you drop a handfull of nanites into jupiter and have them convert it all into a big computer. 20:14:48 Lucifer http://www.aeiveos.com/~bradbury/MatrioshkaBrains/index.html 20:14:59 AlonzoTG A matsuka brain is quite a bit more complex, entailing a shell around a black hole.... 20:15:14 AlonzoTG thanx. 20:15:16 Lucifer Robert Bradbury to a few years off to research Matrioshka Brains 20:15:19 AlonzoTG * AlonzoTG can't spell. 20:15:22 Shadow We could just wire up the Japanese, wouldn't that be that same ;-) 20:15:25 Lucifer ^took a few 20:16:00 Shadow At least I know Sebby would have liked that comment . . . ;-) 20:16:02 WW Walter Watts of the Royal Society of Stacking Things on Top of Other Things present.... 20:16:13 AlonzoTG The japanese culture seems to have an attraction to androids... making them a leading candidate for achieving strong AI. 20:16:21 Shadow I think for religion, I would go with basically a mythological system. Many will probably insist that religion naturally contains a superntarual element. I think this is debatable. A lot of it does, but is it strictly necessary for the functions that religion seeks to fulfill? 20:16:31 Shadow Transhumanist, basically that humanity has headed on a feedback loop whereby our very actions tend to change our nature, culminating ultimately in the genetic manipulation of the human genome precipitating a massive speciation event at some time prior to or perhaps after the singularity. 20:17:00 Shadow And of course all of this remains under the auspices of the three virtues and the three sins. 20:17:10 Tywick does the CoV have a Mission Statement that I've missed? 20:17:13 Shadow http://virus.lucifer.com/virtues.html 20:17:23 Shadow http://virus.lucifer.com/sins.html 20:17:36 Tywick this is something that I think could be very useful if developed wisely 20:18:14 Lucifer Virus has many missions 20:18:16 WW Shadow, there's that word again (singularity)--which usage are we speaking? precipitating a massive speciation event at some time prior to or perhaps after the singularity. 20:18:37 Lucifer First it has to survive, otherwise its other missions will fail 20:18:58 Shadow WW, I don't know. That is probably up for grabs. 20:19:21 Shadow I personally come down on the side of massive speciation occuring prior to singularity. 20:19:35 WW The only singularity I'm aware of is the instantiation (Big Bang).... 20:19:55 Lucifer The Singularity Institute's definition of the singularity has nothing to do with bio-engineering or speciation events 20:19:59 Shadow Right. . . . .but here I am talking about Transhumanist singularity. 20:20:07 Shadow Lucifer. I know 20:20:19 Shadow I just try to put it in some perspective with that. 20:20:42 Lucifer The >H sense is due to Vernor Vinge (sf author) 20:20:52 WW Can someone explain what a "Transhumansit Singularity" is? 20:21:16 Lucifer Basically technology advances exponentially 20:21:29 Shadow Initially it is an idea based on Max Moore's , "Moore's Law" 20:21:33 Lucifer At some point it becomes impossible to predict what lies beyond 20:21:49 Lalartu WW.. yeah.. me too 20:21:53 nrv8 it's always impossible 20:21:53 Lucifer Gordon Moore? 20:21:55 WW Haven't we reached that point already? 20:22:03 Lucifer no 20:22:34 Lucifer http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/Moores_Law.html 20:22:37 Shadow I think that is arguable, WW. In some respects we may already be seeing singularity type phenonmenon. 20:22:43 AlonzoTG no, Gordon Moore. 20:23:00 Shadow But not if you are basing this on Moore's Law. 20:23:27 WW They use Moore's Law to predict what technology will be available at any given time, such as the VLT (Very Large Telescope) Array in Chile (referring to their computational needs for adaptive optics) 20:23:46 Shadow If you instead base it on some biochemical substrate, as opposed to computer tech, then we may have already passed the singularity. 20:23:53 Lucifer How so? 20:24:06 Lucifer We can't engineer humans yet 20:24:15 Shadow We can clone them. 20:24:26 nrv8 neurons are slow 20:24:32 Shadow How much farther till you call it actual engineering? 20:24:41 Lucifer We already have natural clones 20:24:52 Lucifer They didn't cause any singularity 20:25:11 Lucifer Shadow, have you been reading Gregory Stock's Redesigning Humans? 20:25:23 Shadow It could cause if it hasn't already begun to cause a state of mutual positive feedbacke. 20:25:31 Shadow No I haven't. 20:25:52 Shadow But I may if you are reccommending it to me? 20:26:15 Shadow Lucifer, what has to happen for you to call something a singularity? 20:26:20 Lucifer WW, what happens when AIs become so intelligent they can increase their own intelligence? 20:27:09 Lucifer Shadow, when real technology blows past SF 20:27:28 Shadow Okay. . . 20:27:40 Shadow that makes intuitive sense. 20:27:45 nrv8 they need to read some eliezer docs 20:27:50 nrv8 20:27:56 WW IMHO, AI's on par with biologicals are so far away, I can't portend their importance. 20:28:35 Lucifer How long do you think it will be until we have real AIs, WW? 20:28:56 nrv8 biotech & genetic engineering are way too slow 20:29:09 nrv8 AI will come about early 20:30:09 Lucifer how early? 20:30:24 WW One must remember, this historic type of primate evolution is OVER now, surgeons hack off all the fun new toys at birth: 20:30:24 WW Let’s look again, for a moment, at what our knowledge of the evolutionary process suggests may have occurred. First, it’s important to remember that new structures do not arise for anything. They simply come about spontaneously, as byproducts of copying errors that routinely occur as genetic information is passed from one generation to the next. Natural selection is most certainly not a generative force that calls new structures into existence; it 20:30:39 nrv8 my guess is 2020-2030 20:31:18 Lucifer WW, that's true but what does it have to do with *artificial* intelligence? 20:31:37 nrv8 right 20:31:39 AlonzoTG AI could happen next year. 20:31:42 nrv8 everything that came from evolution was an accident 20:31:45 Power666 AI is just a software problem at the moment 20:32:05 Shadow I don't think AI is peeking around the world yet. 20:32:23 WW I assume artificial intelligence to mean DIGITAL, like some virtual reality 20:32:25 nrv8 you never know 20:32:28 Shadow It may be inevitable but I don't think it's imminent. 20:32:40 Lucifer AI will probably be digital, yes 20:32:51 Lalartu Who cares about AI... why not download someones brain intoa computer... digital immortality 20:33:11 Lucifer You don't get something smarter than a human with an upload 20:33:19 nrv8 Lalartu: AI is easier 20:33:27 nrv8 intelligence augmentation is dangerous 20:33:49 Shadow right you never never know. But I think that capturing the natural languages of humanity is not going to happen without a computer that is essentially existing as a human in a meaningful sense in the first place. 20:33:55 WW 1 and 0's are going to have to carry many orders of magnitude more data than I can imagine to virtualize biochemistry 20:34:10 Lalartu nrv: Why would it be dangerous, perhaps you would still be alive 20:34:15 Lalartu It would be a copy of you in the computer. 20:34:21 Lalartu Which brings some weird... problems. 20:34:22 nrv8 Lalartu: i know 20:34:27 nrv8 the methods are dangerous 20:34:38 Lalartu I see 20:34:42 nrv8 doesnt matter though 20:34:57 nrv8 after we create AI, we'll be allowed the option to upload ourselves into any substrate we want 20:35:03 Lalartu upload. 20:35:39 Lalartu Would it be "you" in the computer or merely a copy. 20:35:43 Shadow I'm sorry, but though I love transhumanist thiking otherwise, this whole "uploading" thing just tickles me pink. 20:36:04 AlonzoTG * AlonzoTG has been debating his own upgrading strategy on technoclaypse. 20:37:06 Lucifer tickles you pink? Isn't that good? 20:37:18 Power666 the human conciousness is too dependant on biological hardware to run stable on anything else 20:37:26 WW nrv8, how do you know that's not what we are ALREADY ( after we create AI, we'll be allowed the option to upload ourselves into any substrate we want) 20:37:43 nrv8 WW: we dont 20:38:00 Power666 emulating the human body in digital hardware may not be an option to run a human conciousness 20:38:01 nrv8 we never made a choice 20:38:11 nrv8 sure it is Power666 20:38:28 Shadow I just think that massive speciation will probably happen before singularity . . . . just my personal take . . . 20:38:29 nrv8 scan all your neurons one by one 20:38:43 Shadow Unless we are already in a singularity of sorts. 20:38:44 Lucifer Can >H be considered a religion? 20:38:56 Lalartu Yeah, the brain would try to get input from feelings, and try and run your heart and other bodily functions. 20:38:57 Lucifer It offers various ways to achieve immortality 20:39:05 nrv8 we could be living in a computer simulation 20:39:12 Lucifer It has its own eschatology (the singularity) 20:39:14 nrv8 nick bostrom wrote a paper on this 20:39:17 WW keep in mind Eric Boyd's post: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/virus/message/20951 20:39:57 Shadow Yeah, I almost accept the singularity in religious terms more easily than in rational terms . . . it is a sort of eschatology. . . 20:40:36 Shadow I can accept that it will happen, but doesn't seem of much use otherwise to me . . . 20:41:18 WW So, we get back to WHERE speciation will occur. Biological or AI? 20:41:20 Lucifer I guess the "World Is Going To End Soon" meme doesn't take you very far in postmodern times 20:41:26 nrv8 AI! 20:41:37 Shadow Has anyone read Philosophy in the Flesh by Lakoff and Johnson? 20:41:42 nrv8 no 20:42:41 WW I've only learned to squeeze 37.5 hours of reading into one revolution of the earth. 20:42:47 Shadow WW, I expect that it will eventually come down to a combiniation of Biological and Computer/AI technology, something necessary to guide speciation event safely through careful simlulation and experimentation. 20:42:49 Lucifer Maybe a speciation event occurred when apes were infected with memes 20:43:01 Shadow I just find it easier to imagine the biological aspects. 20:44:07 AlonzoTG My big beef is the people who say that post singularity everything will be 100% simulated ... 20:44:16 Shadow We will need species fit for deep space travel, others for near space living, and perhaps even aquatic or subterranean species. 20:44:28 AlonzoTG I want to ensure there is room in the universe for humanoids indefinitely into the future. 20:44:35 WW Our speciation from primates was just a stray ray of ultraviolet radiation that accidentally doubled cranial size in a hapless primate who exapted it into an advantage for survival 20:44:37 Power666 speculation by an AI isn't that much different than a search engine for events the AI has been through previously and comparing that to all possible out comes of said event 20:44:48 nrv8 our brains are too complicated... 20:44:58 nrv8 it's much easier to code an AI 20:45:23 Shadow Our brains do have an amazing and somewhat plastic capacity for interconnection . 20:45:52 Shadow One of the few things that keeps us somewhat ahead of Moores Law so far. 20:46:03 Power666 the AI will know what the probability of an outcome and what outcomes the AI has witnessed before 20:46:19 Shadow I bet with a little genetic tweaking it can even do better. 20:46:51 WW True, Shadow, but the interconnections are parallel and are exaptatious, just like mutations 20:47:49 Lucifer Are there any varieties of >H that are inconsistent with the Church of Virus? 20:48:00 Shadow right, but exaptations which can be molded into the next substrate. 20:48:12 WW And true, if we start tweaking things GENETICALLY, not digitally, we will surpass exaptation as the driving force in human evolution 20:48:55 Power666 the problem with the human mind is that it is not parallel or serial, its adaptive to both situations 20:49:18 Lucifer What could be gained by adopting a Transhumanist label for the CoV? 20:49:40 WW It might be adaptive to both methods, but it's dependent on both 20:50:10 Shadow I think it would serve as a basic realization of the tenousness of current human condition. 20:50:10 Lucifer Does the >H label bring any liabilities? 20:50:34 Shadow But that it's very strength depends on our willingness to change. 20:51:25 Lucifer Is there anyone against associating the >H movement with Virus? 20:51:31 Shadow Well, some of the usual criticisms about supernatural thinking that some have accused >H of, like uploading, and singularity thinking. 20:51:38 WW I have no objection to a Transhumanist label, it's just I wanted a CHURCH to attend. You know, to get close to folks! 20:51:57 Lucifer WW, you mean like physically close? 20:52:18 Shadow * Shadow hugs WW 20:52:21 WW All aspects of homo sapien closeness 20:52:34 Shadow LoL 20:52:45 WW yes, hugs, too. 20:52:51 Lucifer * Lucifer jumps on WW's back and rides him around shouting yeeeeeha! 20:53:09 Lucifer I hope I wasn't being too forward just now20:53:29 WW no, I like playing horseee!!!!! 20:53:55 Lucifer Yes, the social gathering is a big part of the church 20:54:02 Mermaid next, you'll be asking him to squeal...and you are from ................CANADA! 20:54:08 Lucifer I hope we have real life venues some day 20:54:47 Shadow I guess we may differ on how we integrate Singularity and Uploading ideas, but I would say that we are essentially >H in that we recognize the inevitability of fundamental change in human character. 20:55:00 Shadow Me too. 20:55:08 WW here's a real life venue http://www.walterwatts.com/images/deliverance.jpg 20:55:25 Shadow Real life can do a lot toward bringing CoV into being. 20:55:44 Mermaid you play THAT movie for your granddaughter? 20:55:47 Shadow Some of us continue to meet IRL as Real Life permits these sorts of things. 20:55:48 Lucifer Maybe we could build a fortified compound in Texas? 20:56:18 Mermaid * Mermaid thinks she could be walter's granddaughter too... 20:56:20 AlonzoTG * AlonzoTG wants to do everything possible to try to guarentee the right of individuals _NOT_ to upload. 20:56:27 Shadow Ah she's sweetie. Walter. 20:56:29 WW <Mermaid> you play THAT movie for your granddaughter---like she understands it!!!!!! 20:56:40 Mermaid the visuals!!!!! 20:57:08 Shadow Lucifer, do you know that I actually lived in Waco when all of that was going down at the Branch Davidian's compund!!! 20:57:19 Lucifer no way! 20:57:23 Shadow WAY 20:57:30 Lucifer n'way! 20:57:32 WW she only watches the "Eagles---Hell Freezes Over and Sade-Live" DVD's 20:57:46 Mermaid she has good taste 20:58:11 Shadow I was attending Baylor Law School at the time. I remember watching the Compound burn down on TV in between practice court sessions!!! 20:58:11 Mermaid shadow, get out T-xas 20:58:12 WW she has good taste--so does Mermy 20:58:45 Lucifer Sorry, I don't have much sympathy for the branch davidians 20:59:25 Shadow Me neither. They were nuts and knew what they had invited on themselves. Nontheless there were lots of lessons to be learned in dealing with them. 20:59:41 Power666 the whole waco issue is just a fight between two different evils 20:59:46 Mermaid why do cults attract chicks by droves.. 21:00:00 Lucifer More importantly, why doesn't *this* cult? 21:00:01 Mermaid does it mean that women are by nature 'weaker' and more susceptible to suggestion? 21:00:08 Power666 the government miss handled the whole situation 21:00:25 AlonzoTG exactly 21:00:34 AlonzoTG and that is why my sympathies are for the dead dividians... 21:00:35 Shadow But I actually knew more of the history of the BD because it was such a "Waco thing". They are actually all former Seventh Day Adventists. 21:01:05 Power666 but I do support the reasons why the government went into the BD compound 21:01:06 Shadow Who have their big religious headquarters not far from there in Cleburne. 21:01:31 Shadow Power, I do too, but they could have acted less stupidly. . . . 21:02:07 WW Be kind to my BUDDY, GODDAMNIT!!!! http://www.walterwatts.com/images/christ.jpg 21:02:46 Shadow Well, everybody, I have to make an IRL appointment in a few minutes, so I will be heading on soon . . . . 21:03:09 Lucifer Me too. I enjoyed this chat. 21:03:11 WW BULLSHIT, SHADOW--YOU'RE STAYING HERE!!!! 21:03:18 Shadow heh. 21:03:27 Shadow For a minute or two anyway. . . . 21:03:37 Shadow No need to stop in any case. 21:04:23 Shadow Mermaid, you think so? 21:04:24 WW I love ya anyway, shade! 21:04:32 Mermaid stay 21:04:33 Shadow the whole chick thing, that is. . . 21:04:45 Mermaid i am curious to know what kind of appt it is ..at this time of the day.. 21:04:55 Mermaid yes.. 21:05:00 Shadow Maybe we should look into becoming a cult if it will bring us chicks . . . . 21:05:05 WW that's my gilled gal!!!!!! 21:05:07 Mermaid i think women are more susceptible to suggestion 21:05:31 Shadow Mermaid, you will join my cult . . . . 21:05:38 Mermaid orgies are religious, arent they? 21:05:45 AlonzoTG 21:05:52 Mermaid yes, shadow..i will 21:05:57 Mermaid * Mermaid marches towards shadow's lap 21:06:00 Shadow Alright!!!!! 21:06:16 Shadow * Shadow pats his lap for Mermaid. 21:06:21 WW until they're over, then it's every MAN for himself--- ;-'> 21:06:32 Mermaid candy?.. 21:06:46 Mermaid goddamit..i have a santa craving now! 21:06:50 Shadow * Shadow produces BIG lolipop 21:07:19 WW you two get a room!!!!! 21:07:21 Mermaid * Mermaid looks at shadow's lollipop suspiciously 21:07:38 Mermaid * Mermaid gives shadow's lollipop to walter...chill...you can have it..
L Maras & darksecret: You'll find this FAQ quite explanatory. I don't know why Jake Sapiens decided to post a log of a chat as it's incredibly long, wastes a lot of space, is inconsiderate (rude), and could have been optimized to achieve a better effect.
Re:Church of Virus
« Reply #8 on: 2003-08-19 10:15:04 »
But when Walter Watts said that there were now two Lucifers, he did not mean that Lucifers as a Leader, correct? I'm new to the website and its ideas, and I am really curios about everything. I read all of the website and have read the FAQ that Demon posted which had information about The Church not having a Leader. So the name Lucifer just is a name that members have called themselves...am I correct on this or am I leading off?
Re:Church of Virus
« Reply #10 on: 2003-08-19 11:48:34 »
Ok, I think I got it now. The Lucifers are just the names of the members, they aren't exactly leaders of the Church, such as Christ would be in the Catholic Church. Ok...got it. Thanks much!
Re:Church of Virus
« Reply #11 on: 2003-08-19 12:55:28 »
Welcome Pedro
You mostly got it. There is the "Lucifer", David. He started this church. Then there are others that simply use the name in a similar manner to David. So there is a lucifer that is the closest thing to a leader we have, then there are the others.
Re:Church of Virus
« Reply #12 on: 2003-08-19 14:35:01 »
Ah, thank you for the welcome.
Ok, I got it now. Thanks so much! So David Luficer is the creator of the Church, who is basically like a Leader but not like a God and then there are other members who just use the name Luficer in their username. Thanks so much! I got it!
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