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Topic: Raising a Rational Child. (Read 1838 times) |
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prometheus
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Raising a Rational Child.
« on: 2003-08-19 23:04:04 » |
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Are there other members of the CoV community who have or are raising a child who could give some insights into the materials that they have used or plan to use in order to provide a child with a rational framework for living?
Prometheus
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Hermit
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Re:Raising a Rational Child.
« Reply #1 on: 2003-08-20 01:09:26 » |
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How old?
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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prometheus
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Re:Raising a Rational Child.
« Reply #2 on: 2003-08-20 06:41:39 » |
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About one and a half. She is now walking and beginning to talk and looks at the world with wonder.
I have noticed that she seems to be oblivious when slightly older children try to bully her (take away toys, push her so she loses her balance) but that probably won't last long. Primate politics appears to start early. It seems that children with older siblings learn about hierarchy very early (she is currently an only child). I guess that is a function of having evolved brains like sponges to absorb and learn with.
Prometheus.
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BillRoh
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Re:Raising a Rational Child.
« Reply #3 on: 2003-08-20 14:05:33 » |
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My son is 2 years, 9 months. At this age and younger, rational is a big concept - don't expect to teach it at that age. Rather, watch it develop as problem solving abilities improve. In my case, it was about keeping my son entertained with things like tools, my guitar, music, shape toys, and the like. He has never been one to put anything but his food in his mouth, so I have had a wider variety of toys that he could play with than children with oral tendencies. My son was a lot like your daughter, he sisn't seem to care when he lost a toy to an older child, but as he got older, that changed. I think your prediction will turn out to be right.
Now my son is old enough to understand quite a bit of conversation, so I do spend time calming him and helping him to reason the workings of things when he has a difficult time with a new puzzle.
Have fun
Bill Roh
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Cassidy McGurk
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Re:Raising a Rational Child.
« Reply #4 on: 2003-08-20 18:53:47 » |
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Personally, I submerge my youngest child in a complete fantasy world (Harry Potter helps), but now she demands material proof for everything.
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Kid-A
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Re:Raising a Rational Child.
« Reply #5 on: 2003-09-01 20:10:54 » |
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I don't have any kids, but i'm pretty sure I was just left to my own devices on that one, I think that rationality is more of a personal choice, usually made in the teens.
That would be why there are so many confused teenagers out there looking for enlightenment, and why the CoV seems to be attracting more and more younger members.
Sure a good education is about the best way to go though.
If I ever have children of my own, i'd encourage a fantasy world as well as lots of logic puzzles, cos they were always fun.
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prometheus
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Re:Raising a Rational Child.
« Reply #6 on: 2003-09-02 09:43:52 » |
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Quote from: Kid-A on 2003-09-01 20:10:54
I don't have any kids, but i'm pretty sure I was just left to my own devices on that one, I think that rationality is more of a personal choice, usually made in the teens.
That would be why there are so many confused teenagers out there looking for enlightenment, and why the CoV seems to be attracting more and more younger members.
Sure a good education is about the best way to go though.
If I ever have children of my own, i'd encourage a fantasy world as well as lots of logic puzzles, cos they were always fun.
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Even though you have found your way to rationality through your own devices I believe that without guidance and support in most cases the odds of doing so become less favourable.
It is my belief that the seeds need to be sown early. The developing brain has been designed to be pliable and sensitive and absorb information like a sponge. It seems that rationality is achievable at any time but that a good solid foundation from childhood will provide the stability to whether the storms that assail an individual as they travel through life.
I strongly agree with your point about education but I am concerned about state run public schools in terms of indoctrination, quality of education and safety. I am considering Home Schooling as an alternative. It is a trade off between a substantial time investment and quality control.
Thanks for your input.
Prometheus
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Hermit
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Re:Raising a Rational Child.
« Reply #7 on: 2003-09-02 10:19:27 » |
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We are discussing this topic on the #virus channel on Tuesday 2003-09-02 at 21h00 CST.
See FAQ:The Joy of IRC, Reply #2 for instructions on how to join us if you don't already know.
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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prometheus
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Re:Raising a Rational Child.
« Reply #9 on: 2003-09-09 09:46:48 » |
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Quote from: alahzred on 2003-09-02 22:10:00
I don't have any children either, but I think this is an interesting topic. I have already decided that if I have a child I would send them to a Montessori school. As far as raising a rational child: good luck! I say this for several reasons: First, rationality has a lot to do with personality. If your child is very emotional, it may be hard for him/her to behave rationally. Second, I think that what any parent has to realize is that no matter what you teach your child, he or she is going to develop their own personality and they may do things or have opinions that you do not agree with. The one thing that I feel will help steer a child in the right direction is not to lie to them. If you try to teach your child to hold truth in high esteem, there is a greater chance that he or she will look for the truth in everything. Also, I am going to try to never talk down to my child. I think that children understand a lot more than we give them credit for.
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It is quite interesting that you mention Montessori because I have been reading about that method of education and it seems to achieve the goal of balancing the child's development as an individual with being able to develop in a social setting as well.
I have read much that has been published by proponents and educators in this method but I have not come across any serious critiques of the program.
Does anyone have experience with Montessori? I would appreciate further information.
As for rationality being dependent on personality I believe that is true to a limited extent. Each child has an individual personality and capabilities that are due to genetic make up and their nurture but I believe that they all have the capability to become rational adults if they possess intelligence above a certain threshold level.
I strongly believe that we must lead by example for our children and agree wholeheartedly with your recommendation not to lie to them. I think it is important to draw and maintain a distinction between equipping our children with the tools of rationality and expecting them to follow the path that we hope they will take. They will no doubt come to their own conclusions and find their own path and the best we can do is give them the ability to choose a good path from the many worthy paths that exist.
Thanks for the input.
Duane
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Scorn
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Re:Raising a Rational Child.
« Reply #11 on: 2004-06-06 12:54:23 » |
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Quote from: JeffCreel on 2004-04-15 23:29:55
I think the best way is to simply work on yourself, and making yourself a better person as you want to be. Children are naturally curious, especially about their parents, and I think they're much less passive than sponges. Overbearing parents that impose themselves, especially in the learning theatre, tend to smother creativity. You should be there to give your child the resources he or she needs to build a worldview that works, whether you think it's rational or not. I think though, that genetics will usually make things come out pretty close on their own.
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I have two children aged 14 and 11, boy, girl respectively. I think the above response is truly important. Although, the MOST valuable tool I have used and found to be worthy is listening. Ask questions and listen. Do not judge. Discuss.
I grew up in a home (like many) where respect was something demanded by my parents with the threat of a corporal punishment often over our heads. I vowed never to do that. And I have, up to now been quite successful in avoiding it.
Respect is something to be earned on both sides of the fence.
I count myself lucky in that I currently have a relationship with my son where he will talk to me about anything. He will engage the conversation. I am not so blind as to think he talks the same way with me as he does with his friends. Some things should be left sacred. But I have no problem with anything he wants to talk about and no judgement in my answers. I try and leave him with a perspective to consider. And if he asks for absolute solutions I offer it to him. The same goes for my daughter. I realize my kids are much older than the children the original post was about but this discourse began at my childrens earliest years of understanding.
My kids are not "gifted" in the classical sense of the word. They are bright, good students, athletic and have a very strong sense of friendship with their peers and with their extended family. And that is another thing NOT to overlook. The entire family has to buy into it. My wifes family has always had it. My kids are much closer to them than my own parents. My inlaws have earned their respect. My parents are just now coming around to it.
Don't get me wrong, they are not "angels" and they can still stir it up, with each other particularly, and do often. That is about testing boundries. But somehow they've turned out to be generaly polite and respectful and I can only attribute it to the fact that when, from the earliest years, they were in uncharted territory there was always someone there to ask questions and listen and offer potential solutions, not ultimatums.
The only cautionary note is I have also seen the extreme of this and it is equally disturbing. Never over do it. I once saw a woman in a grocery store parking lot, discussing with her 2 year old why they they needed to go grocery shopping. The child was crying and stomping her feet. Didn't want to go into the store. I went in, did a full grocery shop myself and when I came out the woman was still there trying to convince her daughter. As the kids require their own boundaries so do the parents.
Anyway, I could go on but I won't.
I'm not sure if this is the types of materials you were refering to but there you go.
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prometheus
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Re:Raising a Rational Child.
« Reply #12 on: 2004-06-12 08:42:47 » |
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Quote from: JeffCreel on 2004-04-15 23:29:55
I think the best way is to simply work on yourself, and making yourself a better person as you want to be. Children are naturally curious, especially about their parents, and I think they're much less passive than sponges. Overbearing parents that impose themselves, especially in the learning theatre, tend to smother creativity. You should be there to give your child the resources he or she needs to build a worldview that works, whether you think it's rational or not. I think though, that genetics will usually make things come out pretty close on their own.
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I agree heartily with the majority of your sentiments.
The reference to sponges was meant to allude to the capacity to absorb and not referring to passivity. Trust me my daughter is by no means passive sometimes to my chagrin. :-
To me a worldview that works is almost by definition rational. I would be interested if you could describe how it could be otherwise.
Regarding genetics. My view is that genetics does not determine behaviour in an absolute manner but predisposes us to certain behaviours. A fine distinction, perhaps, but IMHO an important one.
Prometheus
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