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  Brazen sexism is pushing women out of America’s atheism movement
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   Author  Topic: Brazen sexism is pushing women out of America’s atheism movement  (Read 3158 times)
David Lucifer
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Re:Brazen sexism is pushing women out of America’s atheism movement
« Reply #15 on: 2017-08-28 21:16:11 »
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By "moral" I mean the usual dictionary definitions, as in "right and proper and good". I don't think we can claim a right without moral responsibility, at least not in my offered definition.

We have a right to exist if we have a right to self-defense (most would agree). If our existence requires a cost (and it always does), then we either pay our own way, or rely on others' charity, otherwise pay the penalty for theft.


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Mermaid
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Re:Brazen sexism is pushing women out of America’s atheism movement
« Reply #16 on: 2017-08-29 03:45:06 »
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'Moral' is so relative that it is only true for a self selected group. E.g:  Atheist morals aren't same as xian morals. Western morals aren't the same as eastern morals.

Animal morals aren't human morals(do animals kill for sport?). AI morals aren't human morals(presumably not. Again: will AI kill for sport?)

How does your definition of 'rights' fare now?
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David Lucifer
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Re:Brazen sexism is pushing women out of America’s atheism movement
« Reply #17 on: 2017-08-29 08:37:40 »
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My definition survives intact. Rights are a special claim. A claim isn't necessarily true or moral. Rights are especially fraught with peril because they always comes with an implicit threat of harm against anyone who would oppose the right. They do not come from God. They are not granted by the State (though the State certainly enforces its own declared rights for itself and its citizens). They are not universal (though that doesn't stop some from claiming universality and that is not a contradiction because they are claiming their declaration applies to all humans, also someone should let them know that taxation contravenes article 4).
« Last Edit: 2017-08-29 09:24:33 by David Lucifer » Report to moderator   Logged
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Re:Brazen sexism is pushing women out of America’s atheism movement
« Reply #18 on: 2017-08-29 18:53:24 »
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Ok. Let me enumerate:

1. A right is a special claim.(ok)
2. It doesn't have universality.(I agree)
3. It doesn't have to be moral/just etc.(works for me)

So a 'right' is only valid if there is an acceptance of it.

example:

1. I claim women's rights.
2. You don't recognize it.
3. Women's rights exist only for me(and those who subscribe to my universe)

P.s. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you. I am trying to understand your definition.
Pps: are you contradicting yourself when you say a right doesn't have to be moral. But earlier you said re moral responsibility. Clarify.
Pps2: re taxation being opposed to human rights. Not sure I understand but that's another topic. Perhaps a digression to this one. Anyways..if I understand it literally, I disagree.
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David Lucifer
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Re:Brazen sexism is pushing women out of America’s atheism movement
« Reply #19 on: 2017-08-31 23:34:56 »
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I'm saying that a right is a moral claim, but just saying so doesn't make it so.
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