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Describe VirianCouncil-2003-09-02 here.

<hermit> Good morning <Shadow> yes, good morning.

<Shadow> hm? <hermit> That was the way that I perceived it anyway. <Shadow> hmmm. <hermit> hmmmm.

<--- To Be erased after viewing <hermit> (While you think about it, how is life treating you?) <Shadow> no good news from the doctor on last friday :-( <hermit> No good != bad news? <Shadow> somewhat. <hermit> Do they want to pin it? <Shadow> apparently I've been overusing it since the cast was off, and I'm supposed to keep it immobile more. <hermit> Ah

<hermit> And live on milkshakes... <Shadow> no. there is enough fusion to not need pinning, but the healing isn't exactly as quickly as expected.

<Shadow> It sort of pisses on my parade, but I guess I'm used to that kinda crap. <hermit> You are doing ok on your bar progress? <Shadow> yep. I've got a few good checks from the county on the way for work I've already done. I've also gotten some contract work with other attorneys I've known from before. That part of life is going well except that medical issue keeps slowing things down.

<hermit> Hermitess says you are bad. <hermit> If you are not carefull with your arm, she will come after you and pretend she is into bondage! <Shadow> ah. <Shadow> heh <Shadow> well, I guess I was perhaps in some denial about not being 20 years old anymore.

<hermit> You are not and your body knows you are not. Even so, Hermitess says the same as me. Drink milkshakes. <Shadow> so maybe I am slightly older . . . . <hermit> Lots of them. <hermit> You need the fats to absorb Ca effectively.

<Shadow> and non-citizens even <Shadow> :-)

--->

<hermit> Shadow: Now, speak about about your selected means of communication... or non-communication. <Shadow> oh. yeah. snideness. <Shadow> yeah that sounds like a standard operating procedure in one of my "grumpy" moods.

<hermit> It's ok Kid-A, we still love you <hermit> Shadow, please refrain in future. <Shadow> But basically I think I need to rewrite that poll, because "incest" aside, I think some people didn't quite understand what I was trying to say <Shadow> hah, yeah, right. <hermit> Be grumpy to David & I in person, on IRC, even on the wiki. <Shadow> I make no promises. :-) <Kid-A> poll? what poll? did i miss a poll?

<Kid-A> holy cow <Shadow> I still had a point to "incest", but right now explaining that would probably violate doctors orders. <hermit> ? <hermit> Too much keyboard use? <Shadow> I still had a point. <Shadow> yeah. <hermit> SHit <Shadow> I'm not joking.

<hermit> It's supposed to be good for the prostate <hermit> Ok, I'm listening <Shadow> well, its certainly not democratic. <hermit> Nobody has said anything about democracy. <Shadow> it doesn't even really provide a result that is necessarily embraced by most of the people. <hermit> Except that it is a bad idea. <hermit> Which is why we have a sumucracy

<hermit> And it seems to be. <Shadow> "sumucracy"? <hermit> httphttp://virus.lucifer.com/wiki/sumucracy <Shadow> hmmm. <hermit> Shadow - which is why the wiki. Which is a continuation of the Codex comnbined with another year of off line discussion, as well as the IRL discussion as well as the IRC discussions... <Kid-A> i c we r talking about the rep system again? <Shadow> Kid, yeah. <hermit> Kid-A - here httphttp://virus.lucifer.com/wiki/VirianReputation <Shadow> I don't envision this performing the same function as the "virian council". I agree that its a nice way to see what "popular virians" are thinking about, but it doesn't seem either 1) transparent or 2) conducive to much deliberation which democracy IS about . . . and a good thing I might add. <Shadow> I don't see everyone in Virus having "a vote". but I do think that some sort of council should itself operate in a more democratic fashion than this. <hermit> Why? <hermit> Are you saying "all men are equal? <Shadow> no i'm not. <hermit> The democracy lies in the fact that anyone can earn a reputation. <hermit> And remarkably quickly. <hermit> The truth of that is highly visible on the board. <hermit> If you look at the actual value of any one person (including the respected) it is relatively small. <hermit> You need to look. <hermit> Here httphttp://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?action=repIndex <Shadow> I have. <hermit> Taking 1.5% as an arbitrary cut-off: <hermit> httphttp://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?action=repIndex <Shadow> I'm not suggesting something INSTEAD of the reputation/voting system, I'm suggesting something in addition to it. <hermit> David Lucifer,8.6111,30.46,15.43,1 <hermit> rhinoceros,7.7606,13.62,6.90,418 <hermit> Kharin,7.7512,13.50,6.84,1788 <hermit> Hermit,7.7229,13.14,6.66,3 <hermit> Zloduska,7.3613,9.34,4.73,28 <hermit> Jake Sapiens,7.3238,9.01,4.57,1404 <hermit> ElvenSage?,7.0593,7.02,3.56,1355 <hermit> Walter Watts,6.9361,6.24,3.16,4 <hermit> Kalkor,6.8354,5.68,2.88,213 <hermit> Tywick,6.7968,5.47,2.77,419 <hermit> RavenBlack?,6.7907,5.44,2.76,5 <hermit> Sat,6.7494,5.23,2.65,1604 <hermit> Blunderov,6.7088,5.04,2.55,1830 <hermit> DrSebby?,6.5812,4.46,2.26,13 <hermit> Jonathan Davis,6.5145,4.19,2.12,1337 <hermit> the bricoleur,6.5021,4.14,2.10,1372 <hermit> localroger,6.3722,3.66,1.86,1692 <hermit> irvken,6.3341,3.53,1.79,1356 <hermit> michelle,6.2946,3.40,1.72,161 <hermit> Hermitess,6.2347,3.22,1.63,387 <hermit> Kid-A,6.1837,3.06,1.55,1700 <hermit> crw,6.1530,2.98,1.51,1853 <hermit> Second last column is equity

<hermit> Notice that aside from David at 15%, the next 5 have only 25% of the total equity. <Shadow> Okay Hermit, imagine this now . . . . <hermit> In other words, the council (top 6) currently commands less than 40% of the vote.

<hermit> Listening carefully. <Shadow> right, The Council. <Shadow> not really a formal entity. <Shadow> yet <hermit> Right <Shadow> but certainly the reputation system might suggest some names that will more likely than not be on it. <Shadow> I think a real formal council is a necessary balance to this voting reputation system.

<hermit> As you have seen, it is in progress <hermit> httphttp://virus.lucifer.com/wiki/VirianCouncil <Shadow> It doesn't matter so much if a few members do nothing more than offer their equity. <hermit> I hope that it doesn't get back to that situation. <hermit> If it does, the equity only people are likely to sag rather rapidly IMO,,, <Shadow> that's reality Hermit. <hermit> We've been there before

--> rhino (rhino@212.205.234.191) has joined #hermit

<Shadow> And we will probably be there again. <hermit> And we can play musical chairs - quite transparently, if we have to <hermit> Hi Rhino <hermit> How do you like my one-liners? <rhino> hey hermit, Shadow <Kid-A> hey rhino <rhino> ah, they should be handy for the nix folks <rhino> hey Kid

<Shadow> Still, even of those who would be "window dressing" do frequently enough make a good point or express a relevant opinion. After all they probably didn't get equity for doing absolutely nothing in the first place.

--> Lucifer (nemo@24.244.36.179) has joined #hermit

<Shadow> welcome, Lucifer. <hermit> Jake doesn't want to type too much, so I'll toss you a log afterwards Lucifer <hermit> She's off. <hermit> I'll edit and post to the wiki <rhino> good, because i have no idea what it was about

<--- To Be erased after viewing

<hermit> Lucifer - look at the time announcement here - httphttp://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=29118 <Shadow> Its LIES!! All Lies!! ;-) <hermit> Heh <hermit> Like this - <hermit> <Shadow> oh. yeah. snideness. <hermit> <Shadow> yeah that sounds like a standard operating procedure in one of my "grumpy" moods. <Lucifer> time announcement looks good <Shadow> Hey, I didn't syat that!!! <hermit> I knew it :-)

<hermit> I thought you were too busy feeling Grumpy... And i'm going to interview him next

<Shadow> speaking of paranoia, did anybody take a peek at Joe's parting spam? <hermit> I think everyone on the list received it. <hermit> And a barrage from Roh

<Shadow> yeah. <Shadow> well, we probably let that tragedy go on too long (re: Joe) <hermit> Much too long. <hermit> Like almost two years too long. <Shadow> well, I've gotta run. <Lucifer> Easy to say in retrospect <Shadow> cyall again soon. <hermit> Ok <hermit> Be well Shadow <rhino> see you shadow <hermit> Agree Lucifer <hermit> But the writing was on the wall since forever. <hermit> Probably Afghanistan. <hermit> BTW, have fun with my oneliners <hermit> Don't you just love write only code <Kid-A> ta ta Shadman

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Version 3, saved on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 10:37:11 am.