Re: virus: Consciousness and Will (was "Maxims")

psypher (
Tue, 18 May 1999 10:35:15 -0400 (EDT)

...I need some clarity here. I think I object to several things, but I want to make sure we've got some common terminology before I go spouting off.

As such, when
> talking about how "all things" are abstracted to an "at once", we
> speak of *freedom* (not "chaos").

..."Freedom" implies [to me] room to move, potential variability, a set of potential options. Chaos has two meanings which I acknowledge: [1] (from the physycs of dynamic systems) - not being subject to prediction.
[2] having unlimited potential.

...freedom a ground to move *in*, chaos doesn't. I think we're trying to code the same concept though.

This is true precisely because the
> "sum of all CHANCE" (not the sum of all "order") is the symbolic
> *CONSTRUCT* called *order*.

...okay. I'm with you on order as a symbolic construct, but apparently somewhere else on the composition of order. I think this stems from your use of the word "chance". I'm not sure what you mean by it. Traditionally, chance has been used as a label for all the inputs to a dynamic system which have not been accounted for, but that's just using [chance] as a symbol for [ignorance] and with the death of the mechanical universe we're left with an indeterminate construct anyways. my symbol set:

[Chance] = the limits of an abstraction [ie. those relations which cannot be accounted for by the capabilities of a given consciousness. These relations are not even deducible in principle within the frame of facilities of abstraction of the given entity]

[Order] = an expression of will, the deliberate relation of constructs

[Abstraction] = a synthesis of inputs

[Construct] = a deliberate [willed] relation

As such, freedom includes the freedom to
> establish order from chance by way of consciousness (see post on
> quality).

...I would say that order is established from chaos. Order sometimes arises out of chaos spontaneously because limited systems seek homeostasis. But it's only order if somebody notices, otherwise it's just a momentary stability [a node] in a larger flux.

> Because of this, it is wrong to call consciousness "will". *Will*
> is the construct, order, which justifies chance (by way of
> consciousness) as that which exists contrary to freedom (destroying
> freedom for "chaos").

...I've got your assertion [first sentence] but your explanation is a bit muddy to me.

Thus, you suggest that consciousness arises
> from chaos and institutes an ordering called "incarnate existence";
> though the fact of the matter is that chaos can neither allow for
> consciousness nor destroy it, and incarnate existence (or *Being*)
> must pre-exist will so as to maintain an objective existence.

...oh no. If this descends into Sartre I'm going to scream. ...existence is subjective. The precursor to everything is the statement


...not the will to power or anything else, the simple will TO BE.


> Brett Lane Robertson
> Indiana, USA
> MindRecreation Metaphysical Assn.
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