Re: virus: Re: META: topical rules

James Veverka (
Sat, 8 May 1999 13:25:48 -0400 (EDT)

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Bought into what??? Science is maybe the wrong word to use because you seem to have some preconceived notions. Science is merely taking a good look at things and improving our outlook through continuous observation and its tests and applications.

Sometimes our views are biased and we arrive at a false conclusion. Science; the continuing testing of knowledge, through reasoning, is our way to gain understanding of all the worlds we wish to explore. Through critical thinking we make our way. There is science of economics, political science, geological science. It is just knowledge, not some esoteric cult with priests with sole access to knowledge. We are all scientists every day in every decision we reach. We take our knowledge and reason out our decisions.

Wisdom is not immediate with knowledge. It grows through stages. Knowledge is empty without the wisdom to put it into proper contexts and relevancies.

I do not see the universe as infinite. It started and it may finish. Of course the universe may have properties that enable it to stay in existence forever. Ideas put forth by Ernest Sternglass (Before the Big Bang) would, if shown to be true, shake up physics as we know it. And there seems to be a finite amount of mass here also. Is Infinity a myth of myths like an omnipotent being?

Crazy was not the right word. Chaos would be more appropriate. Out of chaos the universe orders. A simple "craziness" example would be running around in our solar system before the planets were completely formed. It would surely appear crazy to the pilot. But out of it came order and stability. And the simple laws of mass and space are what ordered this solar system into regularity from a bunch of rocks and dust flying around a protostar.

Reason is the hallmark that distinguishes us from all of the other species. Every little opinion you have is based upon your reasoning facilites. If it was 500 years ago we would not be having this conversion. Reason is simple and useful, not magic. If you wish to live an unreasonable existence, fine. Reason led to all the discoveries that enable us to have this dialogue instead of discussing a demon haunted world in a town with no plumbing.

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Subject: Re: virus: Re: META: topical rules Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 10:18:41 -0400
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Not so, Within a hundred years, humans will be able to explain the whole universe. And within twenty years, computers will out think and surpass human intelligence (from "Age of Spiritual Machines" - Kurzweil).

Don't underestimate evolution and it's ability to surpass itself, ie., the next stage in evolution is being created by us in the form of computers.

From: Richard Aynesworthy <> To: <>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: virus: Re: META: topical rules

> >
> > I don't have that take on things. Because we can't figure
> > something out does not mean it is unknowable.
> ...correct. But because we can figure some things out doesn't mean
> there isn't anything unknowable. The universe - being infinitely
> complex - is necessarily beyond the modelling capabilities of the
> biological humyn mind. Goedels theorem demonstrates this
> (paraphrasing John Lilley):
> A given computer can only contain the parameters of a smaller
> computer. The parameters of a computer of equal size would so occupy
> the imaging unit that no other processes would be possible. A larger
> computer simply wouldn't fit.
> the extent that the mind can be represented by computer
> analogies we can see that the universe is essentially
> incomprehensible in its full glory. Lucky for us that humyns have
> means of ordering information other than the mind. (emergent
> properties of the spiritual/biological complex)
> Humanity's age of
> > reason has just begun only a few centuries ago. 300 years vs.
> > millions of years behind a shroud.
>'re awfully committed to this idea of the value of the age of
> reason. It seems to me that you've bought in to the mythology of
> science fairly heavily, ever stop to think why?
> There is plenty to do other
> > than see solice in myth.
> ...solace and insight are different.
> > Crazy things exist.
> ...this statement is false.
> The universe is self-ordering on all scales,
> ...this statement is true
> > but it isn't perfect.
> ...this statement is false
> -psypher
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