virus: quick note
Snow Leopard (juliet784@hotmail.com)
Wed, 07 Apr 1999 05:32:48 PDT
To Hermit and other amused readers,
Due to exam season around here, and the length of response required,
we will be unable to respond all at once in the immediate future.
However, a series of E4C (evidence for Christianity) articles will be
sent along. Going from the easiest of your arguments to refute to
the most difficult (which appear to be the mathematical ones), I will
explain all that I can, research everything else, etc.
If you can hit-and-run (which I really don’t mind) than I can break
my statements into e-mail friendly chunks. It’s nice to see the
Hermit come out of his cave, now and then.
Before I actually respond to any of these stimulating arguments, I
just want to say that I enjoy being on this list. It’s great to
compete with minds that debate well. At this moment, if I was an
atheist, I fell that I’d argue Christianity anyway just to have such
brilliant and entertaining responses. I respect each and every one
of you as intelligent, rational people who have viewpoints that
indicate different truths than will ever make sense to me.
A new argument that I know is only going to make everyone open-minded
think, and the close-minded angry: (I’m already laughing at the
hysterical replies you haven’t sent yet)
This is addressed to all atheists who set eyes here.
In a way, you’re right.
It’s easier to prove NOTHING,
To believe NOTHING,
To trust NOTHING
And in a way, you’ll never be disappointed.
But as you think about NOTHING
Write about NOTHING,
And do NOTHING,
I’m doing something for Someone.
Now, for the most obvious errors…
<< (c) Jehoiachin was 18 (2 Kings 24:8), 8 (2 Chron. 22:2) years old
when he began to reign and he reigned 3 months (2 Kings 24:8), 3
months and 10 days (2 Chron. 36:9)>>
<< (g) Lot was Abraham’s nephew (Genesis 14:12), brother (Genesis
14:14)>>
Genesis 14:14, in *most* Bibles says, “Kin”, not brother. The Hebrew
language may use the same word for both.
To be honest, I wasn’t there, and I don’t know, like so many other
things. Ten years difference is big, but likely to be a scribing
error. Another possibility was that he was the official ruler at age
8, and a regent was actually managing things until the boy matured.
For the 3 months versus 3 months and 10 days, that’s a simple case of
rounding, same as the PI thing. (Another matter, who said that it
was a perfect circle?)
<< (h) Joseph was sold into Egypt by the Midianites (Gen. 37:36), by
Ishmaelites (Genesis 39:1)>>
At first, this is pretty convincing. However, it is likely that
Joseph’s brothers sold him to the Midianites, who turned a profit
handing him over to the Midianites.
<<(i) Saul was killed by his own hands (1 Sam. 31:4), by a young
Amalekite (2 Samuel 1:10), by the Philistines (2 Sam. 21:12)>>
“By the Philistines” is not a valid conclusion, check the context and
you will find that they hung his dead body, it was not an execution.
As for the other two, it’s possible that Saul tried to kill himself,
failed, and was then ‘aided’ (or whatever) by the young man.
<< (l) The Earth does (Eccle. 1:4) does not (2 Peter 3:10) abideth
forever>>
There’s nothing wrong with the verses themselves. However, context
is the key. In the “Forever Earth” case, they’re saying that this
planet, this dirt wad in space, isn’t going to come to mysterious and
apocalyptic end where it simply disappears. To say that it does end,
is saying that life on Earth, or perhaps some spiritual ending
(Second Coming) will happen according to Peter.
As for my personal statement that I would not kill for God, I did not
say that it’s not within God’s limits to take a life, after all, he
gave that person life to begin with. Since those people were all
going to die eventually, it makes sense to minimize the suffering of
others.
For something yet unmentioned, historians didn’t agree with the
Biblical account of Daniel 5:1-17 King Belshazzar offered the
position third in the kingdom. Historical records did not indicate
the rule of any such man. Then, archeologists found some documented
historical account that stated that King Belshazzar was co-ruling
with his father, who handled matters abroad while the younger took
care of domestic matters. That’s also why he was offered the
position third in the kingdom (not second).
On the Khomeni thing, I might insight add a shred of tradition that,
by your definition, was added afterward. At the Last Supper, the cup
that Jesus said he wouldn’t drink of was the messianic cup.
Symbolically, if this terrible rabid preacher had taken a sip, he
would’ve been saying, “I want to be the Messiah in the traditional
‘let’s kill some conqueror’s butt’ sense. The triumphant Messiah
begged for on Palm Sunday fits the description you put forth, an
insurrectionist with a nervous habit of Torah- thumping. Jesus
could’ve had that job, the crowds were hysterical- he would’ve had
the same story as Mussolini, if only he had said the word. Did he
try? Doesn’t look like it.
Quick note on faith, logic and sanity.
The disciples, (assuming, for the sake of argument, they existed)
followed Jesus (assuming, for the sake of argument, he existed) for
about three years.
They either saw him doing miracles, or doing tricks;
They saw him being altruistic, or they saw him drop the mask;
They saw him sinless, or they saw him sinful.
They saw him rise from the dead, or they saw where they *really* put
the body***
Then, with this knowledge, they put their lives on the line, for
something that they saw with their own eyes, or something that they
made up, to serve truth, or just to get themselves into trouble. If
the early Christians were crazy enough to stick their necks out for a
lie, then I’d expect even more inconsistencies within a single gospel
account, and some gospel writers would hide their own crimes. For
example, why would the gospels talk about the disciples falling
asleep in the garden? It benefits no one, and hurts the image of the
disciples.
James and John were either fighting to be second and third in heaven,
or second and third most wanted in the province of Palestine.
May (God/ The Squid/ The Oyster/ The Unicorn/ NOTHING) bless you all.
-Joy
PS I didn’t ask for this, until someone directly confronted me, I did
not even say that Christianity was the right way on the list. I
figured it would be too intolerable to such a tolerant, open-minded
bunch of individuals. The statement “This is the bare definition of
Christianity…” was only to state that the point is not the two
hundred or so laws, nor the tiny squabbles of doctrine. I could’ve
made an example of other religions, I happen to be most familiar/
comfortable working with the truth. In addition, when someone said
“Here’s the basis of Buddhism” there was no problem. If I had said,
“here’s the primary meme of Squidism or Rabbitology” you wouldn’t
have violently attacked those. May I then conclude, by your
behavior, Mister Hermit, that you were forced to sit through one too
many church services? Perhaps you knew someone who died in a
religious struggle. If either is true, you have my sympathy.
Otherwise, quit trying to act like the high-and-mighty, alltolerating
oracle that you project yourself to be. (I still respect
you, by the way. It’s just that nobody’s ever as tolerant with us as
with anything else. I realize that maybe some people who had their
Christian vaccine and decided to play church may have been jerks.
However, there are overly zealous factions of every belief system.)
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