Jake:
>Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:56:37 EST
>From: MemeLab@aol.com
>Subject: Re: virus: Lack of imagination error
Being a slave to <reason> leads inevitably to delusion.
>Part of the problem here is that you were applying this phrase to me, << Being
>a slave to <reason> leads inevitably to delusion.>> and some sort of thought
>processes that you imagine occurring in my brain.
Actually, this wasn't my intention. I was speaking generally. In general, being a slave to <reason> leads inevitably to delusion.
>Another part of the problem
>is that you are wrong about these imagined thought processes.
Prove it. Do you claim perfect introspection...or are you making an assertion? You've been acting a bit erratic...what with this "LogicNazi" stuff...so is it illogical for me to deduce that you are feeling threatened and uncomfortable? One doesn't express strength of will by shouting.
>And yet another
>part of the problem is that you attribute any difference between your
>imaginings and the actual thought processes to "semantic games" that you
>imagine that I am playing.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. What I meant was that you were using complicated terminology to obfuscate your belief that <reason> is the judge of all things.
But, I admit, I may have misunderstood you.
Do you agree that <reason> is not the judge of all things? Do you agree that legitimate action and valid beliefs may be be based on principles other than those of <reason>? Do you agree that, while <reason> should be highly valued and regularly practiced, it should not be made to rule or bind any individual against their will?
If you agree with these things, then I've made a terrible mistake. I've been reading everything you've said all wrong.
>And then of course the final problem is that the
>statement just doesn't make any sense.
Every gramatical statement makes sense.
As a loose analogy, my wife often says "listen to me!" when
she wants me to do something. I have a pretty good short term
memory, so I can usually repeat the last 5 minutes of our
conversation to her...establishing beyond doubt that I am,
in fact, listening. What she means, most often, is "do what
I say!" But she feels that to say "do what I say!"wouldn't
reflect the demure person she sees herself as. By saying
"listen to me!" she IMPLIES that, were I paying attention,
I would inevitably do whatever it is she wants. That's
neurolinguistic programming, and people do it all the time.
Actually, after discussing this with her, she has become much
more comfortable saying "do what I say!" And you know
what? I don't mind obeying her commands.
By saying "the statement just doesn't make any sense."
What you mean is that you don't think the statement is true.
That's fine...but to claim you don't understand is like sticking
your fingers in your ears.
>I could if I wanted, imagine ways that some sense could be found in the
>statement, but I would have to say that it was very poorly worded.
I'm trying to communicate with you. I don't claim to be perfect or a brilliant writer. I depend on you to help me make my meaning clear. If it is poorly worded, then please rewrite it in your own, more comprehensible words. I know you can find meaning in what I've said...in fact, it would be easy for you to do so. Do you want to? Why wouldn't you want to understand what I'm saying?
>Considering all of the other problems that went into the statement, imagining
>a feebly sensible interpretation would at most add nothing to the situation,
>and at worst add even more confusion than is already there. I decline to
>waste time imagining things that very likely will only increase your
>confusion.
But, Jake, I'm not confused. I know what I think and I know who I am. I don't require special words or special masks. I may be wrong, but if so, I am confidently definitively wrong.
>There is simply no point in continuing, unless and until you consider the
>possibility that I am not merely playing semantic games.
I retract: you are not "playing semantic games". It was an annoying thing for me to say, and I sincerely apologize. If someone had said the same to me, I would have been angry...so I should know better.
Now, where were we? Ah, yes...
Being a slave to <reason> leads inevitably to delusion.
Reed
Reed Konsler konsler@ascat.harvard.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------