Author
|
Topic: Major Nidal Malik Hasan (Read 2316 times) |
|
MoEnzyme
Acolyte
Gender: 
Posts: 2256
Reputation: 4.69
Rate MoEnzyme
infidel lab animal
 
|
 |
Re:Major Nidal Malik Hasan
« Reply #15 on: 2009-11-18 20:15:09 » |
 |
Hermit,
Points well taken. I still think his actions speak fairly loudly to some kind of treason. When one very clearly engages in actions which amount to treason, it becomes difficult for me to imagine some non-treasonous motives for him: he is a US citizen; he is a volunteer in the US army; he sought out and received educational opportunities afforded to members of the military he voluntarily joined; in short by his own actions, expectations of loyalty seem entirely reasonable; then he shoots up some 50 fellow US army personnel killing 13 and injuring the rest. I don't think there are any unwarranted or inconsistent assumptions in that last sentence, so I still say he's a traitor.
Perhaps he really isn't a US citizen and was actually born somewhere else like many have claimed of Obama. Perhaps he really didn't voluntarily enlist - maybe someone close to him coerced him into it or made him an offer he couldn't really refuse. Perhaps he didn't really want to become a medical doctor and eventually a psychiatrist. By this point its starting to sound a bit incredible to me, but one never can be too sure right? The fact is there is no chance I'm going to actually be on his jury, so I feel safe in saying I'm sure enough for this kind of discourse here. Of course with these assumptions I haven't even begun to attempt to read Maj. Hasan's mind directly, but have instead made reasonable inferences from assumptions that seem relatively uncontroversial so far.
As to my personal intentions in this discourse as you now wish to question ("If you are attempting to achieve other aims, please share them") . . . I'll stick to simple curious interest. I think in that vein compared to many other commentators I've been fairly charitable to Major Hasan. I haven't claimed he's terrorist even though it looks like two of his victims were non-combatants; here I'm assuming those were unintentional where "terrorist" is currently a more radioactive word than "traitor". I've assumed his humane and professional intentions to other relevant humans - specifically his patients, even though I'm now hearing some media reports of his neglect of his patients and even his inappropriate religious proselytizing to them.
Perhaps these nastier assumptions by many other much more prominent commentators are only a retrospective analysis tailored to confirm their initial biases. Perhaps not, but I think I've given him the benefit of the doubt on those. Given the ordinary definition of "treason" and "traitor" I think these considerations are irrelevant, but given that those can be emotionally charged and generally derogatory words I'm willing to discount these other assumptions. At the end of the day I'm assuming "treason" and "traitor" actually mean something other than simply evil. Is that what you are getting at? Please enlighten me, as I'm really curious now that I'm beginning to get that beating-the-subject-to-death feeling - not that there's anything fundamentally wrong with that, but If so, I was thinking we could move on to whether Major Hasan is a good or bad traitor, or some similar subject.
Love,
-Mo
|
I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
|
|
|
Hermit
Archon
Posts: 4287
Reputation: 8.94
Rate Hermit
Prime example of a practically perfect person
|
|
Re:Major Nidal Malik Hasan
« Reply #16 on: 2009-11-19 01:29:56 » |
|
Looking at it from a legal perspective, I didn't bother to address questions of allegiance because his actions did not amount to either war or adherence to the enemy and thus irrespective of allegiance an indictment of treason fails. If he is not guilty of treason, then he is not a traitor.
From a social perspective, people can and do have multiple loyalties, and it is only when you know which is the primary that you can determine whether he behaved treacherously with respect to that. Any behaviour which conflicted with his primary loyalty would naturally not be treachery at all.
So I think your conclusion is precipitate, unsupported and likely unsupportable. However, I will retract this if Hasan states that he betrayed his primary allegiance or labels himself as a traitor. Neither of these is impossible.
Even if some victims were not technically military personal, they were in a military environment and the other attributes required to reach a determinism of terrorism are not yet present. Murder and mayhem, no matter how many suffer may be heinous, but it is not terrorism, unless it is a civilian target, not a military target with a proportionally small contingent of collateral damage, and performed with an intent to change the behaviour of a government.
So again I think that calling it terrorism is precipitate, although depending on what Hasan says, and how foolish the prosecutor, he may ultimately be charged with it. My opinion is that with a prima facie case of premeditated multiple homicide, and attempted homicide, both of which probably rise to murder, it would be stupid to politicise his trial.
I too play for curiosity's sake, but I do try to bear in mind an already cited Arabic/Persian proverb, "A fool may be known by six things: anger, without cause; speech, without profit; change, without progress; inquiry, without object; putting trust in a stranger, and mistaking foes for friends." and ensure that my inquiries have an object and my speech a profit :-P
Love
Hermit
|
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
|
|
|
Hermit
Archon
Posts: 4287
Reputation: 8.94
Rate Hermit
Prime example of a practically perfect person
|
|
Re:Major Nidal Malik Hasan
« Reply #17 on: 2009-11-19 09:50:51 » |
|
Officials: Major Hasan Sought 'War Crimes' Prosecution of U.S. Soldiers
Rebuffed, Accused Fort Hood Shooter Took Extra Target Practice, Closed Bank Safety Deposit Box in Final Days, Investigators Say
[ Hermit : It appears as if investigators have identified the trigger event. ]
Source: ABC News
Source: Joseph Rhee, Mary-Rose Abraham, Anna Schecter, Brian Ross
Dated: 2009-11-16
Refer Also:
Major Nidal Malik Hasan's military superiors repeatedly ignored or rebuffed his efforts to open criminal prosecutions of soldiers he claimed had confessed to "war crimes" during psychiatric counseling, according to investigative reports circulated among federal law enforcement officials.
FBI says Maj. Hasan grew frustrated over his belief of Army harboring criminals.
On Nov. 4, the day after his last attempt to raise the issue, he took extra target practice at Stan's shooting range in nearby Florence, Texas and then closed a safe deposit box he had at a Bank of America branch in Killeen, according to the reports. A bank employee told investigators Hasan appeared nervous and said, "You'll never see me again."
Diane Wagner, Bank of America's senior vice president of media relations, said that her company does not "comment or discuss customer relationships" but is "cooperating fully with law enforcement officials."
Investigators believe Hasan's frustration over the failure of the Army to pursue what he regarded as criminal acts by U.S. soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan may have helped to trigger the shootings.
"The Army may not want to admit it, and you may not hear much about it, but it was very big for him," said one of the federal investigators on the task force collecting evidence of the crime.
His last effort to get the attention of military investigators came on Nov. 2, three days before his alleged shooting spree, according to the reports.
Colonel Anthony Febbo at Fort Hood reportedly told investigators he was twice contacted by Hasan, on Nov. 2 and a week earlier in October, about the question of whether he could legally provide information on "war crimes" he had learned in the course of psychiatric counseling he provided soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. Col. Febbo told ABC News he could not comment because of the on-going investigation.
His supervisor in the Department of Psychiatry, Captain Naomi Surman, told investigators that Hasan raised similar issues with her in conversations in October, according to documents reviewed by ABC News.
Captain Surman told investigators that Hasan had formally contacted military prosecutors to report patients he was evaluating, according to people briefed on the exchange. She said Hasan signed his e-mails with "Praise Be to Allah." Legal analysts say psychiatrists are strictly bound by the rules of patient confidentiality except in cases where they might become aware of crimes about to be committed.
Alleged Ft. Hood Shooter Unhappy With Military, Co-workers Said
Captain Surman, who was scheduled to be deployed to Afghanistan with Hasan on Nov. 2 told investigators that Hasan had both social and academic issues in his medical training. She said that on one occasion, Hasan told her she was an infidel who would be "ripped to shreds" and "burn in hell" because she was not Muslim.
An Army spokesperson contacted by ABC News declined to discuss Hasan's possible motives for the massacre.
"There is an ongoing criminal investigation into the incident at Fort Hood on November 5," said Col. Catherine Abbott. "We cannot speculate as to any potential motive by the alleged suspect."
"This information will come to light as part of the ongoing investigation."
According to fellow military doctors, Hasan made no secret over the last two and a half years about his growing disenchantment with the Army and the American military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Employees at the shooting range where Hasan practiced just two days before the massacre told investigators that Hasan purchased ten separate targets and fired more than 200 rounds with his newly purchased semi-automatic pistol.
After buying the gun in August from a Killeen store called Guns Galore, Hasan later returned to purchase 13 separate ammunition magazines capable of holding up to 30 bullets each.
Store employees told investigators that they became suspicious of Hasan's purchase of so many extra ammunition magazines. The employees said Hasan claimed he needed the extra magazines so he would not have to reload when he fired at the practice range.
|
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
|
|
|
MoEnzyme
Acolyte
Gender:
Posts: 2256
Reputation: 4.69
Rate MoEnzyme
infidel lab animal
|
|
Re:Major Nidal Malik Hasan
« Reply #18 on: 2009-11-19 11:57:06 » |
|
Hermit and I both agree Hasan isn't a terrorist because of the military nature of his targets. I doubt he was coordinating with or significantly influenced by anyone else, but even if he were it doesn't make him a terrorist, although for federal jurisdiction purposes it may matter. Although I wouldn't say so beyond a reasonable doubt at this point I think treason is an appropriate label to consider for discussion purposes and would also implicate federal jurisdiction. Frankly, however, as Hermit has said it would be an unnecessary politicization of the criminal justice process.
In the US there have been very few prosecutions for treason - even though its the only crime specifically referred to in the US constitution. I think his current charges - 13 counts of homicide - will likely be the ones prosecutors will be sticking to. For trial purposes its better to go after the slam dunk and Hasan's immediately obvious intentions than to confuse the point trying to infer Hasan's larger motives. I'm sure its reasons like this which explain why there have been so few prosecutions for treason when simpler charges are available. -Mo
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/2009/11/19/1119hoodshooting.html
FORT HOOD SHOOTINGS
Shooter had his sights set on soldiers, sources say
Civilians reportedly purposely skipped in rampage at post.
By Marty Toohey
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Thursday, November 19, 2009
Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the suspect in the Fort Hood shooting rampage, appears to have targeted soldiers and deliberately passed over civilians as he fired more than 100 rounds, according to U.S. Rep. John Carter and a source close to the investigation.
Carter, whose district includes Fort Hood, told the American-Statesman on Wednesday that Hasan shot one soldier three times until he fell, then shot the soldier three more times when it was apparent he was still alive. Carter said Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, trained his handguns on civilians in the Soldier Readiness Processing Center but would shake his head and move on.
"He skipped civilians," Carter said. "The consensus is that any civilians hit were hit by accident or because they were identified as mental-health workers."
Carter, a Republican from Round Rock, said his knowledge is based on discussions with the soldier who was shot six times, with eyewitnesses who were not injured, and with people who had spoken to others wounded by Hasan, 39.
"Everything is circumstantial at this point ... but it is credible to me," said Carter, a former Williamson County district judge.
All but one of the 13 people killed were soldiers. The military has not released information on the more than two dozen injured.
When asked last week, Chris Grey, a spokesman for the Army's Criminal Investigation Division, would neither confirm nor deny the reports that Hasan was targeting troops and trying to avoid civilians. But a source close to the investigation also said Hasan appears to have done just that.
The source, who has intimate knowledge of the investigation, declined to be named because the government has not granted the source authorization to speak publicly.
Carter said the targeted shootings suggest that Hasan was trying to undermine the U.S. military effort in Iraq and Afghanistan, which Hasan reportedly compared to a war against Islam, and that he was not someone who simply cracked under the strain of a pending deployment and of counseling troops suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. The assessment was shared by U.S. Rep. Michael McCaul of Austin.
Both congressmen said eyewitnesses told them that Hasan shouted "Allahu akbar!" — Arabic for "God is great," sometimes used as a battle cry by Islamic extremists.
McCaul, the ranking Republican on the House Homeland Security Intelligence Subcommittee, said Wednesday that investigators didn't know whether Hasan was involved in organized terrorist activities or was acting alone.
"That's the big question that needs to be answered now," McCaul said. "Who was he in contact with, and did they contribute to his radicalization?"
McCaul and Carter said they are pressing for a congressional investigation. McCaul said Congress needs to determine if relevant information from other branches of the government was not shared with Fort Hood officials.
Attorney General Eric Holder told the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday that authorities were looking into whether warning signs were missed before the shootings. The Justice Department is particularly looking at the way an FBI-led Joint Terrorism Task Force handled an inquiry into Hasan's correspondence this year with a Muslim cleric who has encouraged Muslims around the world to kill U.S. troops in Iraq.
The Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs is convening Congress' first post-attack public hearing today in hopes of "correcting the system so that our government can provide the best homeland security possible for the American people," said Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., chairman of the 17-member panel.
Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, the panel's top Republican, said the inquiry will examine whether there were "inexcusable gaps and communications failures" at Fort Hood or the Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, where Hasan worked previously, "that might have allowed us to prevent the attack."
The committee's public inquiry comes amid a variety of quickly assembled investigations by the White House, Justice Department, Pentagon and Army. Hasan has been charged with 13 counts of murder and could face the death penalty at a military court-martial.
Hasan is hospitalized in stable but guarded condition in the intensive care unit at Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, his lawyer, John Galligan, said.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates is expected to announce today a unified review of the circumstances surrounding the shootings and will call for a quick short-term report, followed by a longer, more extensive study, an administration official said.
Components of the wide-ranging investigation could include self-examinations by the Army and the military's medical community.
|
I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
|
|
|
Blunderov
Archon
Gender:
Posts: 3160
Reputation: 8.90
Rate Blunderov
"We think in generalities, we live in details"
|
|
Re:Major Nidal Malik Hasan
« Reply #19 on: 2009-11-19 18:48:23 » |
|
[Blunderov] I've been following the discussion between Mo and Hermit with fascination and I'm indebted to both for their insights and investigations. In particular the Hermits, so to speak, memetic analysis caught my attention. (It seems to me that to speak of treason is sensible, or not - as the case may be - in the context of a legalistic/definitional framework only.) ISTM that the major became unhinged in the face of irreconcilable contradictions in his memeplex and reacted within the confines of that frame of reference; Islam and militarism and the violence implicit in both. (Common cause is that his flavour of Islam is of a fundamentalist cast; never a good omen no matter what the religion involved may be.) In the grip of this doubly toxic culture, and faced everyday with the private betrayal by America of every principle that America publicly purports to hold dear, how could he have done anything else other than explode?
On a different tack, the brouhaha surrounding the tragedy has some sinister undertones. Whether deliberately or not, the impression is being created that this incident was some kind of one in a billion happenstance. Attention seems to have diverted from the cold fact that there is great deal of unauthorised military violence abroad in America and that it is gaining pace:
"As many as 300,000 veterans from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are afflicted with post traumatic stress disorder and other mental disabilities. The suicide rate for soldiers is now five times higher than in the Persian Gulf War and 11% greater than during Vietnam. Crimes of violence are skyrocketing on military bases, making the surrounding communities some of the most dangerous cities in the country."
Senators prescribe firearms for PTSD and other mental disabilities
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2009/11/senators-prescribe-firearms-for-ptsd.html
[Bl.] So, how come everybody is acting so surprised already?
|
|
|
|
|
MoEnzyme
Acolyte
Gender:
Posts: 2256
Reputation: 4.69
Rate MoEnzyme
infidel lab animal
|
|
Re:Major Nidal Malik Hasan
« Reply #20 on: 2009-11-19 19:22:50 » |
|
Blunderov, while I'm reluctant to let Hasan off the hook in terms of his individual responsibility, I do acknowledge that his case and the resulting casualties deserve some consideration at least in a statistical sense for the purposes of tallying mental health blowback costs of this ill-defined and ever more expensive "war on terror."
|
I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
|
|
|
Hermit
Archon
Posts: 4287
Reputation: 8.94
Rate Hermit
Prime example of a practically perfect person
|
|
Re:Major Nidal Malik Hasan
« Reply #21 on: 2009-11-19 20:57:20 » |
|
13 VS. 2,000,000
Fort Hood Shootings a Shocker...Why Not U.S. War Crimes?
[ Hermit : Here is a more compelling question ]
Source: uexpress.com
Authors: Ted Rall
Dated: 2009-11-12
Ted Rall was born in Cambridge, Mass., Rall graduated with a B.A. from Columbia University with honors in history (His thesis, now widely published, was about secret U.S. plans to occupy France at the end of World War II).
Inspired by a chance meeting with subway artist Keith Haring, Rall began posting his cartoons on New York City streets and became nationally syndicated in 1991. His cartoons, which are frequently discussed on national television, appear in newspapers across the country, including The Los Angeles Times, Washington Post and Village Voice.
Rall, a Pulitzer Prize finalist, has authored over a dozen books. He is the editor of the influential Attitude series of comics anthologies and has twice won the Robert F. Kennedy Journalism Award. He also serves as vice president of the Association of American Editorial Cartoonists.
American lives are worth a lot. So when Americans get killed, it's a big story. There are lots of editorials. Congressmen call for investigations. We want to find out what happened, why it happened, and how to make sure it never happens again.
The lives of foreigners, on the other hand, are pretty much worthless. Even when they die because Americans killed them, news accounts marking their deaths are short, sweet, and short-lived. Congressional investigations? No way. To the contrary! If anyone is inconsiderate enough to mention the killings of people overseas in a public forum, they get shouted down or simply ignored.
The massacre of 13 soldiers at an Army post in Texas earlier this week places this dichotomy in sharp relief.
The FBI is already helping Army investigators. In addition, Senator Joe Lieberman has announced that his Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee will launch a full investigation into "every angle" of the shooting, including the motives of the suspect and whether or not government eavesdroppers could have prevented it by notifying Army officials of his contacts with a radical Muslim cleric. Over in the House, Representative Silvestre Reyes, a Texas Democrat, has summoned national intelligence director Dennis Blair to answer questions about Fort Hood before the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
But wait--there's more. "Other committees may also launch investigations into how the Army missed warning signs about the accused," reports The Politico.
All sorts of hands are being wrung.
Major Hasan, an army psychiatrist, ministered to victims of post-traumatic stress syndrome who told him terrible stories about combat in Afghanistan and Iraq. Should someone have helped him cope too?
Ordered to deploy to the war zone, he asked not to go--and was refused. Should the Army be more flexible?
Is it reasonable to ask a religious Muslim to deploy to Afghanistan or Iraq, wars where he would be asked to kill his coreligionists?
Then there are the phone taps. "U.S. military officials said intelligence agencies intercepted communications between Hasan and Anwar al-Awlaki, a former imam at the Dar Al-Hijrah Islamic Center in Falls Church, Virginia, a Washington suburb," reported CNN. "Al-Awlaki, who left the United States in 2002 and is believed to be living in Yemen, was the subject of several federal investigations dating back to the late 1990s, but was never charged." As jihadis do at the start of an attack, Hasan reportedly cried "Allahu Akbar" before opening fire. Shouldn't someone have noticed that the nice shrink with the dopey smile had become a radical Islamist?
The shock, grief and soul-searching are all reasonable reactions to a brutal and tragic event. But it's not hard to imagine how it looks to the outside world. While the media and public obsess over the deaths of 13 fellow Americans, they ignore the deaths of hundreds of thousands of foreigners.
The American military has killed roughly two million people in Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001. Those attacks were illegal--no declaration of war, no UN mandate--and are largely recognized as such by the American public. Many of the victims were killed with chemical and radioactive weapons, and some while under torture. In other words, these are crimes--some of the biggest mass murders in human history.
There are no angry editorials. The illegal wars, instead of being brought to an end, are being ramped up. The crimes--yes, including the torture--continues. But it's OK--as long as it doesn't happen here in the United States. It's OK to rain death on Pakistanis using drone planes...gotta spare those precious American lives!
Mass murder is shocking when the victims are Americans; it's doubly shocking when it happens in America.
Thirteen soldiers die in Texas and it's all we talk about. Two million die in Afghanistan and Iraq and we don't notice and we don't even want to hear about it. Only 12 percent of Americans aged 18 to 24 can find Afghanistan on a map.
The punk band T.S.O.L. wrote the soundtrack to this attitude a quarter-century ago: "We live in the American zone/Free of fear in our American home/Swimming pool and digital phone."
Still wondering why they hate us?
|
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
|
|
|
Hermit
Archon
Posts: 4287
Reputation: 8.94
Rate Hermit
Prime example of a practically perfect person
|
|
Re:Major Nidal Malik Hasan
« Reply #22 on: 2009-11-24 18:58:24 » |
|
The Memory Scrub About Why Ft. Hood Happened Is Almost Complete ... If It Weren't for Archives
That Maj. Hasan tried to get a military discharge before the massacre is largely being erased -- we're supposed to keep focusing on the Muslim part.
[ Hermit : The original is full of formatting and links that I haven't moved over. I'll try to revisit this and fill it in. Meantime read it there after noting the (highlighted) paragraphs which is why this story is definitely worth reading. ]
Source:Alternet.org
Authors: Mark Ames (AlterNet)
Dated: 2009-11-23
What happened to all the initial reports that accused Fort Hood killer Maj. Nidal Hasan snapped because he was distraught over the Army's refusal to grant him either a discharge or an exemption from being deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, wars which the Muslim psychiatrist abhorred -- and how it was this callous Army refusal to accommodate Maj. Hasan that led to his downward spiral into despondency, rage and mass murder?
We heard quite a bit about this in the first couple of days, and then -- poof! That part of the Fort Hood story disappeared so neatly that I almost started to wonder if I'd imagined it -- such is the power of media bombardment versus a mere soap bubble like the human memory. I might have forgotten too and gone along with the reality-scrub, the way all of Official America has gone, but thanks to all the news archives, it was possible to check the record as it was first reported on November 5, and trace how a key part of the Nidal Hasan story was airbrushed away from reality.
The Army's pig-headed failure to accommodate Maj. Hasan was, for a time, the most important -- and most damaging -- detail forunderstanding his shooting rampage. Because if Maj. Hasan tried to get out of his deployment, and if he telegraphed every warning signal possible (emailing terrorists, cruising 7-11s in his Al Qaeda costume) to bolster his case to reverse his deployment orders, and all the while the Army bureaucracy ignored him despite his 20 years' service -- then that means the massacre can't be blamed just on one crazy Islamofascist's inner evil.
Instead, much of the blame for driving Maj. Hasan to crack would fall on his superiors in the Army, who held his fate in their hands. They could have shown some flexibility, but instead treated with the kind of callous bureaucratic insolence and nasty ethnic harassment you'd expect to find in a 19th century army, not 21st century America. If the Army really did fail to respond to a million-billion signals from Maj. Hasan, then it means we'd have to investigate more than just his evil little Muslim soul. We'd also have to look at the environment that changed him from a good loyal soldier into a cracked lunatic. That would mean examining just how screwed up the Army culture really is, how poorly it manages its resources and personnel, and why we went so long without knowing how bad things were…
We'd also have to examine the link between Hasan's rampage and the Army's record number of suicides this year -- which so far nearly equals the total number of US combat deaths in Iraq. A lot of this year's suicides involve Army personnel which hadn't yet shipped out to the war zones, like Maj. Hasan -- a grim statistic that belies the chickenhawks' screeching attacks denying the existence of pre-combat stress syndrome.
But the problem with investigating questions like these is that the answers could be one giant bummer -- nothing makes an American's brain switch into "hibernate" mode more quickly.
The point being that as the horror of the Fort Hood massacre started to emerge, a lot of people were interested in superimposing a more comforting, simplistic version of events over the ambiguous, demoralizing reality. According to the new version of what led to the Fort Hood Massacre, all along Maj. Hasan was a sleeper-jihadist moled up inside the Army structure, patiently waiting for his Al Qaeda handlers in AfPak to give him the Jihadi signal -- and in the meantime, the Islamofascist sleeper cell ran around Walter Reed scaring the shit out of his Army colleagues for two years straight with his frothing lectures threatening to behead Infidels and pour hot oil down their necks.
This counter-intuitive version has so far managed to stick, but only because everyone's officially forgotten how Hasan had desperately tried to convince his superiors not to deploy him. There was no way that this detail could be allowed to survive if the new official version was going to take hold; it wouldn't make sense that Hasan would simultaneously be plotting for two straight years to commit mass-murder, while at the same time trying to find a way out of deployment. A Jihadist would not try to get discharged from his terror target. Doesn't make sense. He'd keep quiet as he successfully wormed his way closer and closer to his Fort Hood target, if that's their story (why didn't he shoot up Walter Reed if he's a jihadist?), and not do anything that might alert his superiors to potential danger. So you can see why a lot of people would have liked to make disappear the part about how they ignored Hasan's repeated requests --not just the Army personnel whose asses are on the line, but the entire country which has invested so much faith and trust into the military.
As Americans lost faith in every other institution, the military stands as the last thing we believe in. According to a recent Gallup poll, the military is by far the most trusted institution -- 78 percent of Americans have a favorable view of the military, as opposed to a 20 percent favorable rating for the federal government.
Can we survive another attack of cognitive dissonance by popping that bubble too? Now that we've dispatched with the embarrassing detail about how the Army failed to respond to Maj. Hasan's pleas, honest patriots were finally freed up to tell the harsh truth: that Major Hasan actually wanted to remain in the Army and in Fort Hood, because he was a Muslim sleeper-cell terrorist on a mission to kill Americans and though the always-alert, ever-sensitive Army personnel spotted the terrorist early, they were oppressed by the terror of political-correctness, a terror which trumped Islamic terrorism. And just like that, everyone high and low echoed the new line. Whether it was John McCain saying in a speech this month, "We ought to make sure 'political correctness' never impedes national security." Or way down the power-chain to bland middle-of-the-road columnists like Margaret Colson at Bloomberg: "Who'd think the U.S. Army could be seized with a sudden case of political correctness? And with regard to Muslims, no less."
Yeah, who'd think?
But here's the problem: there's far too much evidence out there in the public record that contradicts our new Army-friendly version of events, which implicates the exact opposite of political-correctness. What this evidence shows is that if the Army been even marginally politically-correct, or at the very least, intelligent and reasonable, the massacre could have been avoided, lives saved, and Maj. Hasan might have been discharged to freely marry his online Burqa Queen. Instead, he faced a cold, unresponsive and abusive Army bureaucracy which over time drove Maj. Hasan to despair.
I've gone back through the record and collected the early accounts that were more sympathetic to Maj. Hasan, and the point at which those sympathetic details got scrubbed out of the narrative, allowing the rightwing's Monty Python version to replace it. There are some other surprising details I found, details which show even more parallels to a classic going postal rampage shooting. First, here are some of the most credible early sources which prove that Maj. Hasan tried and failed to get the Army to relieve him. On November 5th, I found these statements by Texas Republican congressman Michael McCaul:
U.S. Rep. Michael McCaul, a Republican from Austin, was briefed by military officials and said Hasan had taken some unusual classes for someone studying about mental health.
"He took a lot of extra classes in weapons training, which seems a little odd for a psychiatrist," McCaul said.
McCaul said Hasan had received poor grades for his work at Walter Reed and was not happy about his situation in Fort Hood, where Hasan apparently felt like "he didn't fit in."
"He's disgruntled because he had a poor performance evaluation, he doesn't believe in the mission, he's looking at getting transferred to Afghanistan or Iraq," McCaul said. "He's not happy about all that."
McCaul added that officials planned to interview Hasan to try to determine for sure that he was not working with foreign agents.
Note the Republican congressman's use of the word "disgruntled"--the adjective synonymous with "going postal" workplace shooters. Already one of the best-informed locals likens the shooting to a workplace massacre--"he didn't fit in," "he's not happy about all that"--and makes no suggestion of terrorism. Another thing that stands out: early reports of Maj. Hasan taking several weapons training classes have also vanished--and I'd doubt there are too many people at Fort Hood eager to offer details about who trained him, how many classes he took, and how he behaved during training. And then there's Texas Republican Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, who was the most quoted and best informed of all public figures on the day of the massacre. As early reports of the shooting were making news, Sen. Hutchison repeatedly said the shooter was a disgruntled military man:
Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-Tex.) said Hasan - who had worked with the wounded for years at Walter Reed Army Medical Center - was angry about being sent to war and tried to get his orders changed.
Later that day, on CNN's Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer, Sen. Hutchison repeated again that he was disgruntled, and that he'd tried to get out of his deployment but was rebuffed. She added another key detail that again proves this was a workplace rage massacre rather than terrorism: Hasan didn't fire at random but rather singled out his perceived tormentors, many of whom he knew. He went to the center for a reason: to avenge those he believed had destroyed his life. This again shows that Maj. Hasan's motive wasn't a random hatred of all Americans, but rather a going-postal attack on his tormentors:
BLITZER: Joining us on the phone is Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas, Fort Hood obviously in her state. She's been very helpful to us in our coverage Do you have any more information about this individual and what his motive may or may not have been?
SEN. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON (R), TEXAS: Well, all I can say is that I know he was scheduled to be deployed and appeared to be upset about that.
And so I think that there is a lot of investigation going on now into his background and just, you know, what he was doing that was not known before.
BLITZER: When you say he was being deployed, was he off to Iraq, to Afghanistan? Do you know?
HUTCHISON: I have heard Iraq. I was told earlier that he was scheduled to go to Iraq, as most of the people there were. It was a number of guard units that were there who were being processed to go to Iraq and possibly some to Afghanistan. It was not clear if there were some going to Afghanistan, but I think so. And it was some guard members and others who were in the processing facility. And I heard that he probably knew some of the people that he was shooting, but that's not confirmed. [Bold by author for emphasis]
This incredible detail, that he targeted his victims and spared others, was confirmed by a Dallas TV reporter from KXXV who was at Fort Hood:
Texas TV station KXXV reported that the gunman told a civilian as he passed that he was shooting only military men.
She said he targeted specific people as he stalked through a deployment center, two handguns blazing.
As late as November 9, four days after the shooting, there is this account which again shows that Maj. Hasan targeted specific people whom he knew. An Islamofascist terrorist by definition doesn't selectively murder Infidels he knows while sparing others in his gun's sights. But this is how the shooting was described by Texas Republican Congressman Michael Conaway and investigators at Fort Hood, according to the New York Times:
Mr. Hasan began shooting around 1:20 p.m., investigators say.
As he methodically moved around the room, he spared some people while firing on others several times. He seemed to discriminate among his targets, though it is unclear why. All but one of the dead were soldiers.
"Our witnesses said he made eye contact with a guy and then moved to somebody in uniform," said Representative K. Michael Conaway, Republican of Texas.
Not only did politicians, reporters and investigators say that Hasan did everything he could to convince his superiors not to deploy him into combat against fellow Muslims, but so did officers and soldiers familiar with the gunman.
Fox News, oddly enough, reported in an early account:
Retired Army Col. Terry Lee, who said he worked with Hasan, told Fox News that Hasan had hoped President Barack Obama would pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Hasan got into frequent arguments with others in the military who supported the wars, Lee said, and had tried hard to prevent his pending deployment.
And again, there were others who knew Hasan whose accounts mirror Col. Lee's and Sen. Hutchison's, including one acquaintance of Maj. Hasan's from his time in Fort Hood as the NYT reported:
He was obviously upset," said Duane Reasoner Jr., an 18-year-old who attended the mosque and ate frequently with Major Hasan at the Golden Corral restaurant. "He didn't want to go to Afghanistan."
On top of this were the numerous accounts by Maj. Hasan's Arab relatives all confirming that not only was he trying to get out of being deployed this year, but that he'd been pushing for a full discharge from the Army as early as 2004, and that Maj. Hasan had even seen a lawyer and had offered to pay the Army back for the money they'd invested into his education -- but he was denied then as he was denied this year, and subsequently he grew desperate, distant, and increasingly bat-shit insane as the deployment date neared.
Reading through these credible accounts now, you can see how everyone from the PR flaks in the military to the rightwing machine would want somehow distract people from all the accounts of their pigheaded refusal to exempt or discharge Maj. Hasan, and you can then start to imagine how a lot of editors and viewers wouldn't put up much of a fuss if the story changed to something more palatable to the American public. So with no one interested in protecting Maj. Hasan's motives, and everyone interested in protecting the Army's behavior, the story gets changed from one of "it could have been prevented if Army bureaucrats/officers weren't such raging assholes to Maj. Hasan" to a barrage of leaks from unnamed Army officials, who argued that Maj. Hasan never said peep to anyone about wanting out of the service (note however the fine language--they narrowed from deployment to discharge to "record of" requesting a discharge). And that it was really the US Army's Judeo-Christian word against Major Hasan's Muslim-terrorist relatives' "word." And who best to print a made-to-order reality-scrub than the corrupt neocons running the Washington Post:
Hasan Did Not Formally Seek To Leave Military, Army Official Says
WASHINGTON -- The Army psychiatrist accused of killing 13 people last week at Fort Hood, Texas, did not formally seek to leave the military as a conscientious objector or for any other reason, an Army official said, despite claims by one of his relatives that he had done so.
Note the sly re-framing from "not getting deployed" to "discharge," a significant technicality; and the glaring omission here of all the other credible sources who were already on record testifying that Hasan had tried to get out of being deployed, in addition to getting a discharge. There's no more mention of all the Christian Americans -- the military sources and Republican politicians familiar with the case -- who supported the family's version. [Oddly enough, the original version of this Washington Post story, posted November 11, 2009, no longer exists on the Post's site.
Even the cached version is gone from Google and Bing; all redirect to a new address of a totally modified version of this story, with a new headline, angle and new lead paragraphs, and this lead paragraph I quote above pushed lower down in the story. This original Post version was widely distributed all over the internet and printed in newspapers all across America--it was the big scoop on that day. A friend tracked down a yahoo cached version of the original article, which is still up (poor lowly Yahoo, the Post's scrubbers didn't even bother tampering with it). In case that gets scrubbed, here is a .pdf file of the article. Even though the Nov. 11 web address exists, it automatically redirects to the newer modified version of this article, which changes the headline from "Hasan Did Not Formally Seek To Leave Military, Army Official Says" to a completely different story: "Army sought ways to channel Hasan's absorption with Islam."
So a day after the Post disseminated an unsourced story that ended talk about how the Army callously dismissed Maj. Hasan's repeated pleas, the rewritten Nov. 12 version of the same article takes the PR whitewash to an even more ludicrous level: now we're told that rather than treating Maj. Hasan poorly, the multiculturalism-friendly Army was Maj. Hasan's bestest buddy and life coach, going the extra mile to accommodate Hasan's Islamic alienation, enrolling him in Islamic sensitivity classes. So now the question is: Why did the Post furtively rewrite the original own story and scrub all the cached versions? The question has to be asked because there's no explanation of the modification, which usually appears at the end of the story. It may be nothing. But if the purpose of this rewrite-and-scrub of the original story was because some editor understood that the story was too poorly sourced to stand behind, then the Post should acknowledge the modification somewhere. Whatever the reason for that mystery, the effect was very clear: after this was published, the media stopped talking about how Maj. Hasan tried getting out of the Army, and turned instead towards making Hasan into the face of Islamofascist evil.] The Post makes yet another false assertion, that only "one of his relatives" -- Maj. Hasan's aunt -- claimed Hasan had tried to get a discharge, when in fact several of Maj. Hasan's relatives confirmed it.
For example, there's a cousin, Nadar Hasan:
Around 2004, Major Hasan started feeling disgruntled about the Army, relatives said. He described anti-Muslim harassment and sought legal advice, possibly from an Army lawyer, about getting a discharge. [Bold mine-author]
But because the Army had paid for his education, and probably because the Army was in great need of mental health professionals and was trying to recruit Arab-Americans, he was advised that his chances of getting out were minuscule, relatives said.
"They told him that he would be allowed out only if Rumsfeld himself O.K.'d it," said a cousin, Nader Hasan, referring to Donald H. Rumsfeld, then the secretary of defense. Relatives said they were unclear whether Major Hasan sought assistance from a private lawyer; then, about two years ago, his cousin Nader Hasan said, he resigned himself to staying in the Army through the end of his commitment.
And here's Number 3, also a cousin, this one named Malik Hasan, as reported in the AP:
"He told (them) that as a Muslim committed to his prayers he was discriminated against and not treated as is fitting for an officer and American," said Mohammed Malik Hasan, 24, a cousin, told the AP from his home on the outskirts of the Palestinian city of Ramallah. "He hired a lawyer to get him a discharge."
Whether you choose to believe them or not is one matter; but it's another matter when the Post reporters or fact-checkers, among the best-trained in the business, are suddenly struck with a case of collective laziness, and don't bother fact-checking the most significant assertion in the article's lead paragraph.
Again, the fact that they wiped the original version off the net may suggest that the Post realized that the original version was problematic enough to warrant a rewrite and thematic-shift. To see just how big a difference the WaPo's article claiming that Maj. Hasan hadn't sought a discharge makes, imagine if that same lead paragraph above, quoted all over the country on November 11, was rewritten according to the true facts:
The Army psychiatrist accused of killing 13 people last week at Fort Hood, Texas, did not formally seek to leave the military as a conscientious objector or for any other reason, an Army official said, despite claims by at least three relatives that he had sought a discharge, as well as public statements by three Texas Republican congressmen, officers and others who knew Maj. Hasan.
Put this way -- the accurate, factual way -- it makes the Army look bad. As if they're hiding something. The Army official claim lacks credibility and looks incredibly suspicious. Because the unnamed Army official has a reason to want to lie to us (which is why he's always "unnamed"): to divert attention away from the Army's failure to respond in any reasonable way to Maj. Hasan's desperate pleas to be discharged exploring that angle means exploring the toxic culture of callous bureaucratic indifference and ethnic bullying and discrimination that Maj. Hasan faced in the Army.
It wasn't just his superiors; even young grunts were having a laugh at this ranking senior office, because to them Maj. Hasan was nothing but a camel jockey. It was this culture that transformed Maj. Hasan from a patriot who eagerly joined the Army as a teenager, so eager to Americanize himself apart from his Jordan-born parents that he enlisted over their objections. Hasan then traveled down a 20-year transformation from wide-eyed Arab-American patriot to the increasingly angry, alienated, and finally murderously insane Maj. Hasan.
That's the Hasan one we know, the one who unleashed a bloodbath on military personnel, whom he targeted specifically like so many rage murderers do, perhaps even targeting people he knew whom he believed had destroyed him, as Sen. Hutchison suggested. That's the version that could cause a lot of problems and a lot of cognitive dissonance here, so it had to be scrubbed out with a new unsourced and slyly-crafted lie claiming what everyone hoped to hear: that Maj. Hassan never tried to get discharged, and the poor military and intel people were helpless to stop the crazed terrorist in their midst.
The Washington Post, as we saw, subsequently altered this story the next day, once the damage was done, transforming it into an even weirder story about Army sensitivity to Maj. Hasan's religious needs, enrolling him in a kind of Islam Sensitivity Training course. Note again how there's not a single named source for the story, headlined "Army sought ways to channel Hasan's absorption with Islam":
Army psychiatrists at Walter Reed Army Medical Center who supervised Maj. Nidal M. Hasan's work as a psychiatric fellow tried to turn his growing preoccupation with religion and war into something productive by ordering him to attend a university lecture series on Islam, the Middle East and terrorism, according to a Walter Reed staff member familiar with Hasan's medical training. The psychiatric staff at Walter Reed did not discuss kicking him out of the service, according to the staff member. In fact, Hasan was initially considered a good medical school candidate because he had spent time as an enlisted soldier and had cared for his siblings after his parents died, both attributes that supervisors believed indicated he had a healthy work ethic. ...
The idea that Hasan attend the lectures, which he did late last year or early this year, came up during discussions among the psychiatric staffs of the hospital and the Army's medical university about what was perceived as Hasan's lack of productivity and his constant interest in Muslims whose religious beliefs conflicted with their military duties.
"You're at an institution of higher learning. He seems to want to do work in an area no one knows anything about," the staff member, who also requested anonymity because he had not been authorized to speak publicly, said of the order. "You don't want to close him down just because it's different."
Indeed.
Meanwhile, the Hasan-Never-Told-Us-He-Was-Unhappy story ran again under a different outlet, the AP. And just as with the Post's account, the AP relied on the same "unnamed" sources to back it up while totally omitting all the credible sources who were already on the record contradicting these "unnamed sources":
Meanwhile, the Pentagon has found no evidence that Hasan formally sought release from the Army as a conscientious objector or for any other reason, two senior military officials told The Associated Press. Family members have said he wanted to get out of the Army and had sought legal advice, suggesting that Hasan's anxiety as a Muslim over his pending deployment overseas might have been a factor in the deadly rampage.
Hasan had complained privately to colleagues that he was harassed for his religion and that he wanted to get out of the Army. But there is no record of Hasan filing a complaint with his chain of command regarding any harassment he may have suffered for being Muslim or any record of him formally seeking release from the military, the officials told the AP.
The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the case is under investigation.
With the AP and Washington Post both running versions of this new line within 24 hours of each other, every paper and media outlet in America would pick it up.
The other key element in making this rather crude fact-scrubbing work is that the audience--Americans--didn't really want to hear the depressing truth of what this bastard went through before he went postal. It's easier to make him out to be "evil" and a "terrorist" from an entirely alien, bloodthirsty religion which bears no relation to our civilized, peace-loving Judeo-Christianity.
It was amazing how quickly everyone rallied around the facile "terrorist" explanation, as if by osmosis. One hack who was instrumental in pushing this new, pat "terrorist" explanation was Time magazine's Nancy Gibbs, who wrote the cover story, featuring a giant close-up photo of Hasan's face and a black bar with the words "TERRORIST" postered across his eyes. Gibbs dismisses the idea that Hasan's environment, rather than his evil Muslim soul, drove him to massacre, despite all the evidence.
This isn't the first time Nancy Gibbs has whitewashed a massacre to make it fit a facile, comforting narrative. A few months after the Columbine massacre in 1999, as more Americans started to question whether bullying and the schools' toxic culture might have helped cause the shootings, Gibbs sneered at the sudden cultural change acknowledging bullying's toxic effects on kids, and the sense that it shouldn't be tolerated--a sensibility that Gibbs dismissed as nothing but a bunch of politically-correct namby-pambies:
So if you aren't allowed to wear a hat, toot your horn, form a clique or pick on a freshman, all because everyone is worried that someone might snap, it's fair to ask: Are high schools preparing kids for the big ugly world outside those doors -- or handicapping them once they get there? High school was once useful as a controlled environment, where it was safe to learn to handle rejection, competition, cruelty, charisma. Now that we've discovered how unsafe a school can be, it may have become so controlled that some lessons will just have to be learned elsewhere.
Gibbs was telling her readers that bullying makes you a man, and anyone who says it had anything to do with causing rampage shootings was nothing but a touchy-feely politically-correct wimp. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth, and only a willfully ignorant jerk could possibly go on the record dismissing bullying. In the months and years since Gibbs defended the positive educational and character-building benefits of bullying, several states and local school districts have enacted laws and rules outlawing bullying. Numerous studies show that bullied kids tend to suffer serious psychological and cognitive damage throughout their lives--they have a much greater chance of suffering from depression, and have difficulties making friends, socializing, and succeeding as compared to other children.
Researchers have detailed just how savagely the Columbine killers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were bullied, and how their school tolerated and nurtured the bullying jocks while dismissing, Gibbs-style, the whining complaints of bullied kids and their parents. Before their massacre, Klebold and Harris left behind diaries explaining their goals and their plans. Unlike people searching for meaning in Maj. Hasan's "Allahu Akhbar" Klebold and Harris left no doubt at all that their goal was to commit terrorism: "we will hijack a hell of a lot of bombs and crash a plane into NYC with us inside firing away as we go down."
That wasn't Hasan or any other Muslim: that was the white Christian American Eric Harris, and his half-Jewish co-murderer, Dylan Klebold.
But again, just as with the Maj. Hasan rampage, it's too disturbing for too many Americans--so bullying has nothing to do with it in Columbine or Walter Reed.
At last, we have the new nicely-scrubbed Soviet version of events that we've come to accept: No one told the Army that Maj. Hasan wanted a discharge. Army officials figured out that he was a crazy Muslim--because that $700 billion we pour into our military every year isn't wasted!--and they even tried to enroll him into Islamic sensitivity training. But the problem is, our 2 million man military was so terrified of hippies and feminists terrorizing them with political-correctness-hectoring that our nation's finest kept all of their fears about Hasan to themselves.
That's it. That's the story. Sure, it's fucking ridiculous. But it's what the country now all agrees happened.
Here, for example, is Rush Limbaugh:
"I tell you something, folks, political correctness and a lot of other things are gonna lead to our downfall."
And then here is Newt Gingrich on Fox News's Greta Van Susteren show:
I think the American people and the Congress should look at the kind of political correct indoctrination now under way at the FBI and elsewhere, designed to make sure that they're not insensitive.
And finally, going back to the Washington Post again, here is their star pundit, the man who fucked up and called wrong every important event of the last decade-plus: Charles Krauthammer:
Was anything done about this potential danger? Of course not. Who wants to be accused of Islamophobia and prejudice against a colleague's religion?
We know that the FBI and the Army knew how dangerous Hasan was. Those soldiers were scared for their lives and tried to do something. This is what happens to everyone who speaks out about jihad in the private sector, in academia, in the media, etc., but for the FBI and the Army to be more concerned with the feelings of terrorists and pedophiles than with the lives of our soldiers, first responders, and civilians is unconscionable. It appears that the CIA, the NSA, and the DNI have the same priorities.
Despicable.
I could never have imagined the pervasiveness of out-and-out treason in our government and our military.
Yowza, he's on fire! Okay but seriously, what can you expect from an imbecile like Krauthammer, whose columns consist of nothing but a series of reckless lies, lazy posturing, and an unusual talent for predicting everything exactly wrong, with disastrous results every time, like some kind of fascist Mr Magoo hellbent on subjugating the planet through military force if only he can find his glasses, he'll start subjugating ... O where did he put them? ...
To see just how totally unreliable Krauthammer's fungus-infested mind is, I offer his reading into the Virginia Tech massacre in 2007, when Korean-American student Seun-Hui Cho killed 33 people. Krauthammer answers it as though his brain has been sucked into a parallel universe very close to our own, and he's responding to a question about Middle East violence:
KRAUTHAMMER: What you can say, just -- not as a psychiatrist, but as somebody who's lived through the a past seven or eight years, is that if you look at that picture [of the Virigina Tech shooting], it draws its inspiration from the manifestos, the iconic photographs of the Islamic suicide bombers over the last half decade in Palestine, in Iraq and elsewhere. That's what they end up leaving behind, either on al Jazeera or Palestinian TV. And he, it seems, as if his inspiration for leaving the message behind in that way, might have been this kind of suicide attack, which, of course, his was. And he did leave the return address return "Ismail Ax." "Ismail Ax." I suspect it has some more to do with Islamic terror and the inspiration than it does with the opening line of Moby Dick.
BRIT HUME: Which was, "My name is Ishmael."
Can we call you "Dumber" for short? Seriously, it reads like the transcript of a couple of washed-up valium junkies sitting in front of the telly. In a meritocracy, Brit Hume would be fired and driven into exile for failing to remember three simple words in the most famous sentence in American literature. But if the point is to be wrong, and to rub it in, then it makes sense -- because that's exactly what Krauthammer does. He's even lazier, in his own way: Brit vacuously reads the big news item of the day; and Krauthammer blames the same ol' reliable villains: Islamofascist terrorists abroad, and the liberal fifth column here at home. There's not even a fake attempt at linking the two, not even a conjoining clause. It's as though he just sheds his hatreds unconsciously, like flakes of dead skin.
But Krauthammer's account of the Fort Hood massacre goes further than the usual cover-up and deflection. This time, he goes all the way, accusing America's tolerance-mad liberals of not merely weakening the country from within out of naive good intentions, but instead he says something far more threatening. Krauthammer argues that America's liberals are actually sabotaging the military and intelligence agencies as part of some kind of conspiracy to destroy America and pave the way for an Islamic-socialist-liberal takeover. Which makes the liberals guilty of treason. Treason is a capital offense.
|
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
|
|
|
|
Logged
