logo Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register.
2024-04-20 12:20:20 CoV Wiki
Learn more about the Church of Virus
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Open for business: The CoV Store!

  Church of Virus BBS
  Mailing List
  Virus 2005

  abort black babies and cut crime
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Notify of replies Send the topic Print 
   Author  Topic: abort black babies and cut crime  (Read 2720 times)
Mermaid
Archon
****

Posts: 770
Reputation: 8.47
Rate Mermaid



Bite me!

View Profile
abort black babies and cut crime
« on: 2005-10-03 09:26:14 »

i am wondering who the republicans are planning to plant in the white house..now that the democrats are set to win. i am only guess that this is a cunning plan to assure democrat's victory..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1582351,00.html

Abort all black babies and cut crime, says Republican

Speaking on his daily radio show, William Bennett, education secretary under Ronald Reagan and drugs czar under the first George Bush, said: "If you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose; you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down."

Article continues
He went on to qualify his comments, which were made in response to a hypothesis that linked the falling crime rate to a rising abortion rate. Aborting black babies, he continued, would be "an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down".

*gag*

and no, i am not willing to negotiate the 'relevance' factor or his 'intent'..
Report to moderator   Logged
Salamantis
Neophyte
*****

Posts: 2845
Reputation: 0.00



I'm a llama!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:abort black babies and cut crime
« Reply #1 on: 2005-10-04 02:07:03 »

[[ author reputation (0.00) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

Report to moderator   Logged
MoEnzyme
Acolyte
*****

Gender: Male
Posts: 2256
Reputation: 4.55
Rate MoEnzyme



infidel lab animal

View Profile WWW
Re:abort black babies and cut crime
« Reply #2 on: 2005-10-04 12:08:06 »

an exchange on #virus chat channel about this:

http://www.churchofvirus.org/bbs/index.php?board=65;action=chatlog2;channel=%23virus;date=2005-10-04;time=09:30;start=0;max=30

<Shadow> I thought Bennet was unwise to go there, but personally I realized what he really meant.
<Lucifer> what did he really mean?
<Shadow> That it was absurd to view abortion as a tool for implementing social policy.
<Lucifer> Did you see the related exchange with alexboko in the logs?
<Shadow> no.
<Lucifer> alexboko pointed out that it is trivially true when talking about aborting babies born into poverty
<Shadow> Actually I was wondering if it made any difference if Bennet was actually right (that aborting black babies would reduce crime).
<Shadow> of course the real issue isn't race, but poverty (if Bennet was right).
* Lucifer nods
<Shadow> Indeed some might suggest that Bush was implementing an anti-poverty program by not building/repairing New Orleans levees, and delaying emergency response there.
<Lucifer> just a happy side effect of his incompetence ;-)

« Last Edit: 2005-10-04 12:17:06 by Jake Sapiens » Report to moderator   Logged

I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme


(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
Mermaid
Archon
****

Posts: 770
Reputation: 8.47
Rate Mermaid



Bite me!

View Profile
Re:abort black babies and cut crime
« Reply #3 on: 2005-10-06 09:09:59 »


Quote from: Salamantis on 2005-10-04 02:07:03   

Feelers vs. Thinkers
By James D. Miller
http://www.techcentralstation.org/100305C.html
racism's absence, rather than its presence, in its author. 

wrong.

actually, crime rate will go down if every white baby in the country is aborted
or
if every hispanic baby is aborted
or
if every asian baby is aborted.

that bb chose to bring up black babies(even though there is a time lag between birth and potential criminal tendencies, as boko pointed out during our irc chat on this issue...) speaks volumes about bennett.

let us not forget that this is the man who when he was the secretary of education mentioned that he would like to see the public school system fail and that he would rather see more kids go to private schools, charter schools and those which use school vouchers when asked for help to introduce the internet in public schools.
Report to moderator   Logged
Salamantis
Neophyte
*****

Posts: 2845
Reputation: 0.00



I'm a llama!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:abort black babies and cut crime
« Reply #4 on: 2005-10-06 11:42:20 »

[[ author reputation (0.00) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

« Last Edit: 2005-10-06 11:58:14 by Salamantis » Report to moderator   Logged
Mermaid
Archon
****

Posts: 770
Reputation: 8.47
Rate Mermaid



Bite me!

View Profile
Re:abort black babies and cut crime
« Reply #5 on: 2005-10-06 12:55:54 »


Quote from: Salamantis on 2005-10-06 11:42:20   

    Wrong.  Absolutely, completely, irretrievable and undeniably wrong.  The crime rate would rise if every jewish, caucasian or asian baby were aborted, because the per capita crime rates for these populations are lower than the crime rate for the aggregate of all populations, and the members of the higher per capita groups would be left untouched.  Crime rates would drop if every black or hispanic baby were aborted, because these groups have higher per capita crime rates; thus the aggregate crime rate in their absence would of mathematical necessity be lower.

let's go over this paragraph by paragraph.

first, the above.

how do you define 'crime'?

i suppose white colour crimes are 'victimless'? possession of drugs is a felony and carries a higher sentence than child molestation. a rapist serves less time on average than a drug dealer.

waiting to hear from you.
Report to moderator   Logged
Salamantis
Neophyte
*****

Posts: 2845
Reputation: 0.00



I'm a llama!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:abort black babies and cut crime
« Reply #6 on: 2005-10-06 14:03:46 »

[[ author reputation (0.00) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

Report to moderator   Logged
Mermaid
Archon
****

Posts: 770
Reputation: 8.47
Rate Mermaid



Bite me!

View Profile
Re:abort black babies and cut crime
« Reply #7 on: 2005-10-06 14:39:21 »


Quote from: Salamantis on 2005-10-06 14:03:46   

    The aggregate crime rate is for ALL kinds of crime, both white collar and blue collar (I include the indigent, destitute and unemployed in this group, although their crime rate is itself far higher than those who are gainfully employed in manual-labor-type jobs, and they are overwhelmingly comprised, in the US, of hispanics and blacks), as well as from all racial, ethnic and socioeconomic sources, in the population under consideration (for instance, the US population).  That's why it is called the aggregate crime rate.  The fact is that there are many more blue collar crimes than there are white collar crimes, simply because the economic pressure to commit the latter is vastly less.  Many perpetrators of blue-collar crimes such as burglary and theft do so out of perceived economic necessity for the sake of funding the cost of basic survival (food, shelter, clothing) - which does not change the fact that such crimes are still reprehensible in that they remove economic security - and sometimes the health and lives, when their perpetration involves the commission of violence - from their victims.  The affluent commit far fewer of these crimes, and indeed of any type of crime, because the underlying economic pressure to perpetrate them is far less.  And, of course, blue-collar citizens largely lack the opportunity to commit white collar crimes because they lack the funds necessary to pursue the advanced degrees required to gain employment in the white collar ranks (this is another way tha social stratification persists through succeeding generations, except among those academically gifted enough to win scholarships).  It is a point that white-collar crimes such as corporate pollution, stock market and banking fraud, and price-fixing/gouging both tend to involve conspiracies between multiple perpetrators and tend to victimize more people per crime (although each person to a usually lesser, nonviolent extent), and thus should receive more press than the common theft and/or assault upon an individual - and they do.  Blue collar criminals disproportionately prey upon blue-collar victims (they are more accessible to the perpetrators), and while the monetary gain is less in absolute terms than it is for white collar crime, it is generally a greater percentage of what the (poorer) victim possesses.  But, as I stated before, there are many more of these individual, blue collar crimes committed than there are institutional, white collar crimes.

sigh. all the above rant is not the point, is it?

basically, if we were to crunch the above, you are saying that 'blue collar' crimes are committed by black people and white collar crimes by the more affluent. how does this make my statement,

actually, crime rate will go down if every white baby in the country is aborted
or
if every hispanic baby is aborted
or
if every asian baby is aborted.


remember you replied....

Wrong.  Absolutely, completely, irretrievable and undeniably wrong.  The crime rate would rise if every jewish, caucasian or asian baby were aborted, because the per capita crime rates for these populations are lower than the crime rate for the aggregate of all populations, and the members of the higher per capita groups would be left untouched.  Crime rates would drop if every black or hispanic baby were aborted, because these groups have higher per capita crime rates; thus the aggregate crime rate in their absence would of mathematical necessity be lower.

now you are talking about the affluent and the destitute instead of the race distinction that bill bennett made? are you suggesting that the poor 'jewish/asian/white' folk living out of trailer trash do not engage in criminal activity?

regardless, crime rate will go down if you abort non black infants too. you disagreed. tell me why without going on about affluent/poverty's influence on crime. can the statement 'if you abort all babies, crime rate will go down' or 'if you abort all male children, crime rate will go down'(obviously, there is no doubt that most criminals are male rather than female, no?) wrong? bill bennett's choice of black babies to be aborted showcases the kind of person he is....it is not something that only 'feelers' can detect. are the 'thinkers' so fucking dense that they cannot see through this?

btw. i think your distinction between white and blue collar crime is wrong. crime rates do not make any distinction between million dollar frauds and throwing someone into prison for possession of 500 gms of cocaine. when someone breaks into a home for burglary or when a father rapes his daughter or when a yuppie scams people out of their savings to the tune of millions of dollars, it ALL falls under 'crime'.


Quote:
Of course, I do not believe that pre-fetal-viability abortion should be a crime when the woman desires it, or that homosexuality, gambling, prostitution, pornography, euthanasia or drug use should be, either, when engaged in by freely consenting adults.

it is good to know what you dont believe re pre fetal viability abortion, but that wasnt the point of the argument. we are arguing about bill bennett.


Quote:
Crimes should, by definition, create victims whose identities are separate from those of the perpetrators; I see the above as oxymoronically victimless crimes. We should not legislate an unfree society where every individual choice is either mandated or forbidden; freedom means the freedom to choose between a range of alternatives, even if some of those alternatives may be personally detrimental to some choosers (as in, for instance, drug addiction or gambling losses).

right then.

regardless of whether we 'think' or 'feel', i cannot see how anyone can attempt to rationalise his obviously racist statement.

when we are done with this, we'll explore bill bennett's desire to see public schooling fail.
Report to moderator   Logged
Salamantis
Neophyte
*****

Posts: 2845
Reputation: 0.00



I'm a llama!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:abort black babies and cut crime
« Reply #8 on: 2005-10-06 16:37:35 »

[[ author reputation (0.00) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

« Last Edit: 2005-10-06 16:40:07 by Salamantis » Report to moderator   Logged
Blunderov
Archon
*****

Gender: Male
Posts: 3160
Reputation: 8.91
Rate Blunderov



"We think in generalities, we live in details"

View Profile WWW E-Mail
RE: virus: Re:abort black babies and cut crime
« Reply #9 on: 2005-10-06 18:33:23 »

[Blunderov] I think what bothers me about that statement is that it seems to
imply that 'blacks' are born criminal. I know he does not actually say this
in as many words but that implication hangs in the air like a rancid fart. I
share Mermaids objections to it.

Why not, for instance, say instead that compulsory sterilization of blacks
would bring down the crime rate. Or better education? Or more employment
opportunities? Or, or, or...

Best Regards.


---
To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>

Report to moderator   Logged
Salamantis
Neophyte
*****

Posts: 2845
Reputation: 0.00



I'm a llama!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:abort black babies and cut crime
« Reply #10 on: 2005-10-06 21:02:51 »

[[ author reputation (0.00) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

Report to moderator   Logged
Mermaid
Archon
****

Posts: 770
Reputation: 8.47
Rate Mermaid



Bite me!

View Profile
Re:abort black babies and cut crime
« Reply #11 on: 2005-10-07 09:21:57 »


Quote from: Salamantis on 2005-10-06 16:37:35   
What part of 'crime rate' do you not understand?  I think it's the 'rate' part, which means 'percentage', or 'number of crimes per capita', as I have voluminously indicated.  Let me gently take your hand and slowly walk you through it, step by step...


gosh. you sound so much like someone else who used to frequent this place.

Quote:
Say that there are two ethnic groups (let's ca SNIPPED



Quote:
is conclusively, mathematically and logically refuted (except for the hispanic part).


because it was based upon an assumption that there are two groups of people who comprise exactly half of the population, i think i will pass on this 'conclusive' mathematically and logical refutation.


Quote:
This truth may be distasteful to some


that if black babies are aborted, there would be lesser crime than if white babies are aborted?

Quote:
BTW: you're continuing to call Bill Bennett's statement racist, in the face of irrefutable and overwhelming evidence to the contrary (the statement itself, in which he immediately and explicitly condemns the execrability of anyone actually attempting to concretely implement his abstract theoretical reductio ad absurdum thought experiment), I find to be merely annoying.


the thrust of bill bennett's argument was anti abortion. it was not a statement that was meant to condemn the eventual elimation of an entire people. i think it is laughable that anyone would even consider that bill bennett's statement did not have any racist slant.

Quote:
As to whether Bill Bennett would like to see public school fail, his statement is mainly descriptive; public school IS failing in the US, and he would like to see less of education failing to educate students - as would we all (at least the compassionate and rational among us).


regardless of whether or not public schools deserve to fail, this is a man who when he was the secretary of education opposed internet in public schools. the reason he cited was that he would rather see public schools fail and that he would rather see private schools succeed.
« Last Edit: 2005-10-07 09:28:07 by Mermaid » Report to moderator   Logged
Mermaid
Archon
****

Posts: 770
Reputation: 8.47
Rate Mermaid



Bite me!

View Profile
RE: virus: Re:abort black babies and cut crime
« Reply #12 on: 2005-10-07 09:25:58 »


Quote from: Blunderov on 2005-10-06 18:33:23   

Why not, for instance, say instead that compulsory sterilization of blacks
would bring down the crime rate.

i think that would be racist too.


Quote:
Or better education? Or more employment
opportunities? Or, or, or...

you see, the discussion was not about blacks or race or crime. it was about abortion. bill bennett effectively injected an innuendo and a scare mongering tactic that 'informs' people that blacks are responsible for the majority of crimes. that people are defending his statement citing statistics and facts show that he has succeeded in creating a divisive society regardless of whether or not that was his intent. his intent, we may never know.

let us remember..the caller said that if it were not for abortions, there would be an increased burden on social security...bennett argued with that point by saying that abortion is not right..even if it means that crime will be reduced by aborting black babies..of course, implying that blacks are mostly criminals....
Report to moderator   Logged
Salamantis
Neophyte
*****

Posts: 2845
Reputation: 0.00



I'm a llama!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:abort black babies and cut crime
« Reply #13 on: 2005-10-07 11:49:01 »

[[ author reputation (0.00) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

Report to moderator   Logged
Mermaid
Archon
****

Posts: 770
Reputation: 8.47
Rate Mermaid



Bite me!

View Profile
Re:abort black babies and cut crime
« Reply #14 on: 2005-10-07 12:55:15 »


Quote from: Salamantis on 2005-10-07 11:49:01   

Mermaid, I apologize.  I actually had dared to hope that, for once, you might actually concede your debating position to a superior logical argument, one the merit of which any honest logician would be forced to acknowledge.  But that would assume that you had the capacity or desire to comprehend it.  Instead, you revert to another indulgence in a conclusively logically and linguistically refuted and banal instance of a name-calling slur, one which Bill Bennet's own statement conclusively belied.  But that context does not serve your condemnatory purpose, so you dismiss or ignore it, and that is the laughable thing.  The Rorshact to which I earlier referred has, by means of your own responses, indeed categorized, not Bill Bennett, but you.

i know who you are. please fuck off.


Quote:
If you can furnish the school quote to which you keep referring, I would like to see it - with internet-accessible references; otherise I will be forced to conclude that it is merely another attempt at spiteful and false character assassination.

knock yourself out > http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/10/1/105329/697

When I was chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (1993-97), I asked Bill Bennett to visit my office so that I could ask him for help in seeking legislation that would pay for internet access in all classrooms and libraries in the country. Eventually Senators Olympia Snowe and Jay Rockefeller, with the White House leadership of President Clinton and Vice President Gore, put that provision in the Telecommunications Law of 1996, and today nearly 90% of all classrooms and libraries do have such access. The schools covered were public and private. So far the federal funding (actually collected from everyone as part of the phone bill) has been matched more or less equally with school district funding to total about $20 billion over the last seven years. More than 90% of all teachers praise the impact of such technology on their work. At any rate, since Mr. Bennett had been Secretary of Education I asked him to support the bill in the crucial stage when we needed Republican allies. He told me he would not help, because he did not want public schools to obtain new funding, new capability, new tools for success. He wanted them, he said, to fail so that they could be replaced with vouchers,charter schools, religious schools, and other forms of private education. Well, I thought, at least he's candid about his true views.

and oh..i really meant it. f.u.c.k.o.f.f.
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Notify of replies Send the topic Print 
Jump to:


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Church of Virus BBS | Powered by YaBB SE
© 2001-2002, YaBB SE Dev Team. All Rights Reserved.

Please support the CoV.
Valid HTML 4.01! Valid CSS! RSS feed