 Poll
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| Question: | Should one remain Chaste until marriage?
| Definately not. Its pointless. | |    11 (73%) |
| Its not important at all, but not a bad idea in order to stay away from trouble. | | 2 (13%) |
| Really not sure. Not really leaning either way either. | | 1 (6%) |
| Its something eveyone should do, but its ok if you choose not to. | | 1 (6%) |
| Yes. No one should ever under any circumstances have sex unless they are married. | | 0 (0%) |
| | | | Total Votes: 15 | |
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Topic: Chastity (Read 4070 times) |
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Pabreetzio
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I'm Patrick
   
 
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Chastity
« on: 2005-05-13 02:37:19 » |
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So this 17 year old girl that i used to have a long distance relationship with just lost her virginity to her 35 year old married pastor in the back of a car.
She had placed a lot of importance on waiting until marriage too. It really upsets me that it ended this way after all the times she went on about how she was going to wait.
I'm still a virgin myself, and I believe, at the moment at least, in keeping myself that way. I actually had thought it was important, then when i was actually with another long distance girlfriend of mine a week after i had been with the one i previously mentioned I decided that it really didnt matter, and that I felt comfortable having sex with her since she was on birth control pills. My mother and my siblings came back to the hotel after their meal before I actually got to do anything with this girl, and we didnt get another chance together after that. I was prepared to lose my virginity at that point and I didnt really care.
Then after talking about it to the first girl I decided once agian that premarital intercourse shouldnt be done, and told myself that I would wait. Now I'm calling that goal once again into question, and wondering about it.
Id like to know what you guys think. Ill explain my actual views on the matter later.
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Chastity
« Reply #1 on: 2005-05-13 05:27:11 » |
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My personal favorite reference on this is Tom Leykis www.blowmeuptom.com
All about how to get more tail for less money. As an openly Libertarian Atheist I'm sure we could get good reception of him here for more than just his great insights on how guys can get laid and safely.
Speaking of which you sound like you nearly made a bad decision on sleeping with the chick who was "on birth control pills". Tom Leykis would say NEVER EVER DO THIS, and the problem isn't the fucking her part, which is fine and dandy assuming everyone is a consenting adult. You need to always use a condom. Never trust a woman on this. Of course that's great backup, but don't ever rely on that. Never trust a woman on this (I repeat). This goes right down to disposing of its contents after you use it. It also goes for bringing your own and not using hers, so man up and buy some ASAP. The girls who really want to get laid will also respect you more for having your own, but that's almost beside the point. Even if you love her, . . . especially if you love her 'cause that's when your most likely to do something stupid, . . Never trust a woman on this.
Unless of course you have a vasectomy, in which case cancel that last rant. 
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Chastity
« Reply #2 on: 2005-05-13 05:40:52 » |
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If you want to cut to the tenents (and past the promos) here is another good link.
http://www.tenetsofleykis.com/
enjoy.
-Jake
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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Rhysenn
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Re:Chastity
« Reply #3 on: 2005-05-13 12:36:53 » |
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Patrick, i know we had a conversation about this already, but i'll reaffirm my position. I don't think there's any reason to wait until marriage. There's no problem if that's what you want to do, and its good for reducing STDs and pregnancy, but i don't see what it is about sex and marriage that make them go together. Why should you only have sex with one person your whole life? Why sex and not everything else down to kissing? And unwanted pregnancies can occur within marriage as well. not all married couples want children.
I also very much agree with Jake on the condom thing. My boyfriend has a son because a girl he slept with lied about being on birth control. or else she wasn't using it responsibly. We are in a serious trusting relationship and i am on birth control and he trusts me with it so we do not use condoms, but in general its a good idea. I'm a girl, so i know that i take the pills regularly and don't need to worry about it, but its different for men.
I do believe lack of premarital sex has its merits in some places, like Africa for instance, because of the AIDS epidemic. Using condoms is not part of their culture, and neither is abstinence. You can try teaching either but you won't see results. One of the few success stories however comes from Uganda, where they have been teaching people to stay monogamous and that limiting sex partners will reduce transmission of AIDS, and they have seen positive results with this approach. I also find it disturbing that teaching abstinence to women cannot work because (i think by law) a woman cannot refuse her husband in some of these places.
But in general, i think i've developed a more open view of sexual relationships in recent years, as i know a number of people who are polyamorous and this also brings up topics such as whether marriage is important or necessary.
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Chastity
« Reply #4 on: 2005-05-15 05:57:02 » |
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Quote from: Rhysenn on 2005-05-13 12:36:53
I also very much agree with Jake on the condom thing. My boyfriend has a son because a girl he slept with lied about being on birth control. or else she wasn't using it responsibly. We are in a serious trusting relationship and i am on birth control and he trusts me with it so we do not use condoms, but in general its a good idea. I'm a girl, so i know that i take the pills regularly and don't need to worry about it, but its different for men.
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Rhysenn,
I like you already of course!  But just to be the guy here, even if you were my "girfriend" I wouldn't make an exception for you on this one. I might trust you with my life, I might trust you with a secret, I might even trust you with a car . . . but I wouldn't trust you with this. So if your boyfriend is trusting you on this, then I must congratulate you on successfully fitting his balls into your purse, but perhaps he may want them back one day? And will that be before or after you have made an affirmative decision to reproduce? I hate to seem dogmatic about it, but a real man has to draw a fucking line, no? (all puns intended).
Anyway we all seem to agree that young Patrick needs to go get some condums . . . he doesn't need to be playing so loosely as your trusting lap dog in his initial experiences.
:)
hugs and kisses,
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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Blunderov
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"We think in generalities, we live in details"
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Re:Chastity
« Reply #5 on: 2005-05-15 06:55:18 » |
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What is to be gained from abstinence I have to wonder? Yes, there are the issues of pregnancy and STD's but anyone following Jake's very sound advice will have nothing to worry about in this regard. There is a wide world of willing wenches out there. Use it or lose it.
Best Regards.
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Rhysenn
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Re:Chastity
« Reply #6 on: 2005-05-15 14:03:47 » |
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Quote:| But just to be the guy here, even if you were my "girfriend" I wouldn't make an exception for you on this one. I might trust you with my life, I might trust you with a secret, I might even trust you with a car . . . but I wouldn't trust you with this. So if your boyfriend is trusting you on this, then I must congratulate you on successfully fitting his balls into your purse, but perhaps he may want them back one day? And will that be before or after you have made an affirmative decision to reproduce? I hate to seem dogmatic about it, but a real man has to draw a fucking line, no? (all puns intended). |
haha. i understand your point, but i think it would be kind of pointless for me to tell him to wear condoms no matter what because i know that i'm being responsible, so from my point of view it doesn't matter either way. But if i were not the girlfriend then i would probably give him this advice.
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Mermaid
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Re:Chastity
« Reply #7 on: 2005-05-15 15:56:35 » |
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Quote from: Blunderov on 2005-05-15 06:55:18
What is to be gained from abstinence I have to wonder? Yes, there are the issues of pregnancy and STD's but anyone following Jake's very sound advice will have nothing to worry about in this regard. There is a wide world of willing wenches out there. Use it or lose it.
Best Regards.
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Use it or lose it? Irresponsible, Blunderov..
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DJ dAndroid
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Ballet Mechanique
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Re:Chastity
« Reply #8 on: 2005-05-15 20:09:40 » |
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Really in the end all "advice" here is meaningless. Seeking alternate viewpoints etc. is always wise and is to be applauded. As long(!) as you're not seeking a consensus within which to hide. (Especially if you're simply seeking a justification to indeed be "naughty" as it sounds like perhaps you are!)
Let your own conscience be your guide. Follow your heart and your own morals and, well, don't worry about it. And if the moment takes you there and you, and your partner are comfortable and it happens then don't agonize over it! Knock her socks off (safely yes!) and get on with your life with or without her.
Quote from: Rhysenn on 2005-05-13 12:36:53
[SNIP]
But in general, i think i've developed a more open view of sexual relationships in recent years, as i know a number of people who are polyamorous and this also brings up topics such as whether marriage is important or necessary.
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I am in the same boat actually. I am pretty much another Libertarian, and definitely an Atheist. As far as my views on sex go, I am a romantic. I think sex is (and should be) something intimate, beautiful, and powerful. On the other hand well, it clearly isn't always that. Sometimes sex is just... there. It's something to pursue, to do, and presumably to enjoy completely without any notion of love nor attachment. And that's more than fine if you're comfortable with that.
As for marriage, I try to think of it as just a really, really sincere "I love you!" Why not really, for myself it wouldn't change what "she" means to me one way or the other. 
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Shouldn't robots have the same right as humans to have gender and express their sexuality?
_Clayton Bailey_
http://www.claytonbailey.com/monrobot.htm
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Chastity
« Reply #9 on: 2005-05-17 02:16:24 » |
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Quote from: DJ_dandroid on 2005-05-15 20:09:40
Really in the end all "advice" here is meaningless. Seeking alternate viewpoints etc. is always wise and is to be applauded. As long(!) as you're not seeking a consensus within which to hide. (Especially if you're simply seeking a justification to indeed be "naughty" as it sounds like perhaps you are!)
Let your own conscience be your guide. Follow your heart and your own morals and, well, don't worry about it. And if the moment takes you there and you, and your partner are comfortable and it happens then don't agonize over it! Knock her socks off (safely yes!) and get on with your life with or without her.
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I disagree that all advice is meaningless. If you can identify a particular utility some advice is much better than others in terms of that utility. And so I respectfully dissent from this "follow your heart and morals" (incidentally I might add that ethics trump morals if you value reason like we in CoV we do, but that is a whole other post.) In terms of not replicating genes mindlessly my condom advice is definitely very meaningful, and "following your heart", like Rhyssen's lap dog, will only cause problems with this utility as he has already proven by reproducing with another woman, and will again with Rhyssen should she make that unilateral decision for him. You certainly should never ignore your heart because it almost always has important information for you, but blindly following your heart (trust the woman "on the pill") or morals is a bad idea. Ethics dictates that all advice is not meaningless, and its outcomes can be objectively measured (as in the lap dog's past and future reproductions). Just because intimate and sexual feelings are involved doesn't give one license to stop thinking.
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Chastity
« Reply #10 on: 2005-05-17 02:36:20 » |
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Quote from: Mermaid on 2005-05-15 15:56:35
Quote from: Blunderov on 2005-05-15 06:55:18
What is to be gained from abstinence I have to wonder? Yes, there are the issues of pregnancy and STD's but anyone following Jake's very sound advice will have nothing to worry about in this regard. There is a wide world of willing wenches out there. Use it or lose it.
Best Regards.
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Use it or lose it? Irresponsible, Blunderov..
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I won't guess as to what Mermaid really means here, perhaps she can elaborate herself. But I will say why I think this "use it or lose it" is a little bit irresponsible. "Use it or lose it" makes much more sense for a woman, because her years of reproductive potential (and hence sex appeal) are much more limited than men. So if a woman wants to make the most of her sex appeal she really needs to do so earlier rather than later. Men have a much longer shelf life by comparision. Pabreetzio sounds like a very young male to me, so he doesn't need worry as much with losing it. If he is trying to maximize his lifetime pussy consumption, he probably needs to think more about making money right rather than in laying that "special woman". What he needs to do is go after the easier lays (like older women who just want attention) until he has the financial resources to attract a high quality younger mate. But whatever Pabreetzio decides he wants, he sounds like he's got a bit of shelf life, so I don't think he needs to be in a hurry.
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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Mermaid
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Re:Chastity
« Reply #11 on: 2005-05-17 03:07:31 » |
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It is my opinion that human beings have not evolved enough to escape the emotional traps that seem to accompany orgasms. It can only occur when one is hardened(pun not intended) by life and age. After a time when one's personality is wholly formed and they can recognise responsibilities, impact of their hormones on their decision making capabilities and the way to navigate commitment issues.
Young people are sexual beings and should explore the carnal landscape. Intercourse is a completely different issue. The perpetual existence of our species hinges on our ability to see and act on the connections between love, lust and commitment. These are hardwired to a certain extent.
Given all that, I dont think young people should be banging whomever turns them on given that this is a time for them to develop their personalities, skills and talents. There is always time for that later. There is no 'age bracket for this as it differs from person to person. Imo, when one reaches certain mental and emotional maturity, they are good to go. Of course, for some this happens in their teens and some never mature even after they pass middle age. I suppose one will know for themselves when it occurs.
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MoEnzyme
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Re:Chastity
« Reply #12 on: 2005-05-17 03:21:34 » |
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I take the legal rule here. If within two years of each other, or both over 18, then have sex to your heart's content (with condoms of course). But that is just Texas. Be sure to check the laws in your own jurisdiction before fucking!
love,
-Jake
Quote from: Mermaid on 2005-05-17 03:07:31
It is my opinion that human beings have not evolved enough to escape the emotional traps that seem to accompany orgasms. It can only occur when one is hardened(pun not intended) by life and age. After a time when one's personality is wholly formed and they can recognise responsibilities, impact of their hormones on their decision making capabilities and the way to navigate commitment issues.
Young people are sexual beings and should explore the carnal landscape. Intercourse is a completely different issue. The perpetual existence of our species hinges on our ability to see and act on the connections between love, lust and commitment. These are hardwired to a certain extent.
Given all that, I dont think young people should be banging whomever turns them on given that this is a time for them to develop their personalities, skills and talents. There is always time for that later. There is no 'age bracket for this as it differs from person to person. Imo, when one reaches certain mental and emotional maturity, they are good to go. Of course, for some this happens in their teens and some never mature even after they pass middle age. I suppose one will know for themselves when it occurs.
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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Rhysenn
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Re:Chastity
« Reply #13 on: 2005-05-17 07:04:38 » |
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Quote:| In terms of not replicating genes mindlessly my condom advice is definitely very meaningful, and "following your heart", like Rhyssen's lap dog, will only cause problems with this utility as he has already proven by reproducing with another woman, and will again with Rhyssen should she make that unilateral decision for him. You certainly should never ignore your heart because it almost always has important information for you, but blindly following your heart (trust the woman "on the pill") or morals is a bad idea. Ethics dictates that all advice is not meaningless, and its outcomes can be objectively measured (as in the lap dog's past and future reproductions). Just because intimate and sexual feelings are involved doesn't give one license to stop thinking. |
I'll just add that when he slept with the other woman, he was wearing a condom. So although condoms help a great deal, they're still not the perfect birth control so even after condom use one has to think about possible consequences.
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knives
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Re:Chastity
« Reply #14 on: 2005-05-17 12:50:45 » |
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This rules about not having sex are merely morally based. It goes against nature to relinquish your life to chastity at any point of your life. Marriage, the abnegation of sex before it, they are just morals taught mainly by christianity, and they themselves copied them from other philosophies before there time. These are all man made, inside you are the one who chooses to abide to them or not.
Love is love, sex is sex. You can have sex with someone you love, doesn't mean you have too. I think you should just simply do whatever the hell you feel like, taking of course her feelings into consideration. If you both want to do it, go ahead. It's true, the best way to stop an unwanted pregnancy is chastity. But there are other methods, you have to be to strong, or rather too weak to go against your own instinct. Sometimes is mental strenght that is needed to stop yourself from having sex with someone that you really shouldn't but it is sometimes weakness to unjustifyingly abide to arcaic morals set by man without even questioning them when they assail on your freedom.
Don't just go out there and have sex with everyone just because you feel like, think about yourself before you do anything, but don't stop yourself because christendom says so, neglect yourself the pleasure because you are smart enough to know this time the consequences will be indeed bad. I know this point has been made to you before, but just to reinforce the people that have answered you before with whom I agree.
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God is just an equation,
who equals slavery.
God is just a perception,
of people's misery.
(Mindfuckers, Victor Rivera 2004)
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