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Topic: RE: virus: The Fundamental Interconnectedness of All Things (ctd) (Read 983 times) |
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: The Fundamental Interconnectedness of All Things (ctd)
« on: 2004-09-27 07:08:37 » |
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[Blunderov] The light-bulb moment for me is "belonging, as they do, to a
single quantum state".
Best Regards.
http://physics.about.com/b/a/113148.htm?nl=1
Clock synchronization with Entangled Photons
Clock synchronization with entangled photons has been proposed as an
idea and now demonstrated in an experiment. One of the important issues
in the theory of special relativity is the synchronization of clocks.
How close can be the time at one clock, t1, be to the time at a second
clock, t2? Modern clocks have improved to such a level that the
resolution and accuracy of the comparison techniques have become the
limiting factors to determine the degree of synchronization, t1-t2. New
ideas, exploiting the novel aspects of entangled photons, say that
quantum mechanics can overcome the classical limit in regard to clock
synchronization. Physicists at the University of Maryland, Baltimore
County, have now confirmed the idea by doing an experiment in which two
entangled photons are sent respectively to two detectors some distance
apart. Pairs of entangled photons are produced in a nonlinear crystal
and will retain a special quantum correlation between themselves
(belonging, as they do, to a single quantum state) even if they were to
move apart to distances of trillions of km. The Maryland physicists
synchronized two distant clocks, each attached to a photodetector, by
building up a statistical sampling of the clock responses, first sending
a photon from one emerging beam to one detector while its mate went to
the other detector, and then switching the entangled pairs to the
opposite detectors. In this way, two clocks 3 km apart were synchronized
within a picosecond. Synchronicity is of course critical in many areas
of telecommunications, especially in GPS. (Valencia et al., Applied
Physics Letters, 27 September 2004)
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Walter Watts
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Re: virus: The Fundamental Interconnectedness of All Things (ctd)
« Reply #1 on: 2004-09-27 12:05:39 » |
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Good stuff, Blunderov.
That old "spooky" action at a distance.
I sometimes want to fire my PC through a couple of slits to see if it's a particle or
a wave.
I KNOW my lan exhibits non-locality sometimes.
However, rhino reminded me that just the observation of the above experiment would
most assuredly affect its outcome.
Walter
Blunderov wrote:
> [Blunderov] The light-bulb moment for me is "belonging, as they do, to a
> single quantum state".
> Best Regards.
> http://physics.about.com/b/a/113148.htm?nl=1
> Clock synchronization with Entangled Photons
> Clock synchronization with entangled photons has been proposed as an
> idea and now demonstrated in an experiment. One of the important issues
> in the theory of special relativity is the synchronization of clocks.
> How close can be the time at one clock, t1, be to the time at a second
> clock, t2? Modern clocks have improved to such a level that the
> resolution and accuracy of the comparison techniques have become the
> limiting factors to determine the degree of synchronization, t1-t2. New
> ideas, exploiting the novel aspects of entangled photons, say that
> quantum mechanics can overcome the classical limit in regard to clock
> synchronization. Physicists at the University of Maryland, Baltimore
> County, have now confirmed the idea by doing an experiment in which two
> entangled photons are sent respectively to two detectors some distance
> apart. Pairs of entangled photons are produced in a nonlinear crystal
> and will retain a special quantum correlation between themselves
> (belonging, as they do, to a single quantum state) even if they were to
> move apart to distances of trillions of km. The Maryland physicists
> synchronized two distant clocks, each attached to a photodetector, by
> building up a statistical sampling of the clock responses, first sending
> a photon from one emerging beam to one detector while its mate went to
> the other detector, and then switching the entangled pairs to the
> opposite detectors. In this way, two clocks 3 km apart were synchronized
> within a picosecond. Synchronicity is of course critical in many areas
> of telecommunications, especially in GPS. (Valencia et al., Applied
> Physics Letters, 27 September 2004)
>
> ---
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--
Walter Watts
Tulsa Network Solutions, Inc.
"Pursue the small utopias... nature, music, friendship, love"
--Kupferberg--
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Walter Watts
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: The Fundamental Interconnectedness of All Things (ctd)
« Reply #2 on: 2004-09-27 17:40:05 » |
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Walter Watts
Sent: 27 September 2004 06:06 PM
Good stuff, Blunderov.
That old "spooky" action at a distance.
I sometimes want to fire my PC through a couple of slits to see if it's
a particle or
a wave.
I KNOW my lan exhibits non-locality sometimes.
However, rhino reminded me that just the observation of the above
experiment would
most assuredly affect its outcome.
[Blunderov] Would it be correct to say that the quantum scale is a realm
in which probability is the dynamic instead of causality do you think?
I'd be much obliged if you, or anyone with a moment to spare, could
enlighten me on this score.
In a similar vein, I'm wondering if, when we talk about a 'quantum
state', whether one of the things we mean is a (universal) minimum
possible segment of time? A whisker of time so brief that only the
potential for an event can exist and no more? How does time relate to
probability exactly?
Yours in much puzzlement.
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simul
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Re: virus: The Fundamental Interconnectedness of All Things (ctd)
« Reply #3 on: 2004-09-29 11:25:07 » |
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Even further, I think it's “possibility” (as in Lotfi Zadeh's fuzzy-logic), rather than probability, that is the dynamic at the quantum scale...
-----Original Message-----
From: "Blunderov" <squooker@mweb.co.za>
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:40:05
To:<virus@lucifer.com>
Subject: RE: virus: The Fundamental Interconnectedness of All Things (ctd)
Walter Watts
Sent: 27 September 2004 06:06 PM
Good stuff, Blunderov.
That old "spooky" action at a distance.
I sometimes want to fire my PC through a couple of slits to see if it's
a particle or
a wave.
I KNOW my lan exhibits non-locality sometimes.
However, rhino reminded me that just the observation of the above
experiment would
most assuredly affect its outcome.
[Blunderov] Would it be correct to say that the quantum scale is a realm
in which probability is the dynamic instead of causality do you think?
I'd be much obliged if you, or anyone with a moment to spare, could
enlighten me on this score.
In a similar vein, I'm wondering if, when we talk about a 'quantum
state', whether one of the things we mean is a (universal) minimum
possible segment of time? A whisker of time so brief that only the
potential for an event can exist and no more? How does time relate to
probability exactly?
Yours in much puzzlement.
---
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: The Fundamental Interconnectedness of All Things (ctd)
« Reply #4 on: 2004-09-29 18:06:56 » |
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Erik Aronesty
Sent: 29 September 2004 05:25 PM
Even further, I think it's "possibility" (as in Lotfi Zadeh's
fuzzy-logic), rather than probability, that is the dynamic at the
quantum scale...
[Blunderov] Thanks Erik. I think I found the answer here:
http://mathforum.org/epigone/geometry-research/shukraldin
(Most of it is inscrutable to me but all the mathematics seems to come
down to:)
<snip>
The larger issue here is whether the quantum (microscopic) world could
come
from the macroscopic/cosmological worlds by changing a real time
argument to
an imaginary time argument, and what exactly this would mean physically
in
mathematical physics. One can guess that the change corresponds to a
*phase* change similar to change of phase from liquid to solid to gas or
Bose-Einstein condensate or superfluid or superconductor or plasma, etc.
Then the microscopic world is just a different phase from the
macroscopic/cosmological world. The Schrodinger equation holds for the
microscopic world, but the macroscopic and microscopic worlds are not
completely isolated - the Schrodinger equation changes to its real
version
(2) at times determined by the macroscopic equation (2) and some other
(discrete) constraints, or more precisely the waiting times between
Poisson
events are *projections* of the right-hand-side of (2) into the
probability
density function (pdf) space. The time geometry or (piecewise)
trajectory
CONTROLS itself by projecting itself into a probability space or
probability
density scenario AS THE OBJECT EVOLVES. In a sense, we may have the
equation: 5) PROBABILITY = (TIME) GEOMETRY that relates the
macroscopic/cosmological and microscopic worlds.
Osher Doctorow</snip>
<wanders off to wonder about 'imaginary time'>
Best Regards
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Walter Watts
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Re: virus: The Fundamental Interconnectedness of All Things (ctd)
« Reply #5 on: 2004-09-29 19:37:17 » |
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I haven't forgotten this Blunderov.
I've just had a busy last few days and I want to try and give a decent (well, for
me answer.
Hopefully tomorrow.
Later Dewd,
Walter
Blunderov wrote:
> [Blunderov] Would it be correct to say that the quantum scale is a realm
> in which probability is the dynamic instead of causality do you think?
> I'd be much obliged if you, or anyone with a moment to spare, could
> enlighten me on this score.
>
> In a similar vein, I'm wondering if, when we talk about a 'quantum
> state', whether one of the things we mean is a (universal) minimum
> possible segment of time? A whisker of time so brief that only the
> potential for an event can exist and no more? How does time relate to
> probability exactly?
>
> Yours in much puzzlement.
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
--
Walter Watts
Tulsa Network Solutions, Inc.
"Pursue the small utopias... nature, music, friendship, love"
--Kupferberg--
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Walter Watts
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No one gets to see the Wizard! Not nobody! Not no how!
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Walter Watts
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Re: virus: The Fundamental Interconnectedness of All Things (ctd)
« Reply #6 on: 2004-10-10 14:00:09 » |
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Blunderov,
Sorry this took so long, but hey, I'm a major procrastinator.
And besides that, not being a professional physicist, it's all
conjecture on my part anyway.
With that said, I have read several books on current theoretical string
theory, both by Brian Greene:
"The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest
for the Ultimate Theory"
and
"The Fabric of the Cosmos: Space, Time, and the Texture of Reality".
Both I highly recommend. Greene has BY FAR the finest ability to explain
very technical physics to the layperson.
In addition, I have read a few primers on more conventional
NON-theoretical physics of the general-relativity, special-relativity,
Newtonian and Quantum ilk.
Anyhow, I'll make a foolhardy attempt at considering your questions with
purely gut-level, theoretical conjecture of the most amateurish quality.
[Blunderov]
Would it be correct to say that the quantum scale is a realm
in which probability is the dynamic instead of causality
[Walter]
You're absolutely correct in picturing the quantum scale as a realm where probability is not only dynamic, but that dynamic is the ONLY game in the realm. IMHO, that dynamic, or what physicists like to refer to as the quantum "foam", is not only occuring at sub-Planck scales which are currently beyond any method of direct or indirect examination, they are roiling at such a frenetic pace that I really think they would defy examination even if they WEREN'T so infinitesimally small.
To make my short conjecture a tad longer, let me speculate that this quantum foam is possibly only one layer of a contiguous spectrum of layers that make up "our" particular physical universe. One could suppose that this contiguous spectrum of layers might begin at the bottom with pure, unadulterated, chaotic, elemental energy in its most fundamental form, and runs the gamut all the way to the densest, coldest, darkest matter with gravitational effects so tremendous that the matter has either reached a state of cold, stop-dead-in-its-tracks, maximum density, or tunnels to be the big-bang singularity event for some other universe, possibly one with different initial physical laws.
As they say, the universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we CAN imagine.
Current Superstring theory in physics bears this out. From the latest and best minds on that scientific roller-coaster, the general agreement now is that there are 11 (eleven) dimensions in our universe. And at least one of them appears to be thoroughly connected WITHOUT regard to known physical space-time limitations. This could go a long way toward explaining quantum entanglement or "spooky action at a distance" which is an experientially verified phenomenon. It could also provide a valuable avenue in it's ability to integrate general relativity and gravity and contribute to the much sought after "Theory of Everything" or "Unified Field" holy grail.
I've also seemed to glean, and rather subjectively I might add, that the part of the physical universe that we can see, feel, touch, smell, measure, etc. lies in the middle part of that contiguous spectrum of energy/matter, and that attempts to examine the outer boundaries of this entire spectrum will be very difficult indeed, although I am personally optimistic we will find a way to probe the seemingly unprobeable.
One other note. There also appears to be some conjecture in the Superstring theory world that "our" part of the physical universe that we experience, is a shadow world projected "upward", if you might, from the pure energy "base" toward the motionless dense matter end of the energy/matter spectrum.
And the projection apparatus "might" be in the form of "plucked" fundamental strings that are probably better characterized as infinitesimally small vibrating loops of energy.
I'll close on that highly conjectural piece of subjective doo-doo
Gooday,
Walter
Blunderov wrote:
>[Blunderov] Would it be correct to say that the quantum scale is a realm
>in which probability is the dynamic instead of causality do you think?
>I'd be much obliged if you, or anyone with a moment to spare, could
>enlighten me on this score.
>
>In a similar vein, I'm wondering if, when we talk about a 'quantum
>state', whether one of the things we mean is a (universal) minimum
>possible segment of time? A whisker of time so brief that only the
>potential for an event can exist and no more? How does time relate to
>probability exactly?
>
>Yours in much puzzlement.
>
>
>
--
Walter Watts
Tulsa Network Solutions, Inc.
"Pursue the small utopias... nature, music, friendship, love"
--Kupferberg--
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Walter Watts
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