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   Author  Topic: Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?  (Read 4833 times)
simul
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Re: virus: Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #30 on: 2004-08-05 18:01:40 »
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Joe,

Here you are, trolling as usual.

Why don't you see it?


-----Original Message-----
From: "Joe Dees" <hidden@lucifer.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:10:43
To:virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?


My sincerest apologies, Casey; I checked and that was Walter, not you.

And my article posting has dropped dramatically - although I will note that the arguments and evidence contained in the articles I have posted here stand or fall on their own, regardless of their source - this principle (excision of ad hominem from a critique) is elementary logic.

The problem with taking the high road alone is that it puts those feisty yappers who take the low road at the perfect elevation from which to bite my ankles.  When this happens, I need to kick them loose so that I can proceed unhindered.

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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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Re: virus: Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #31 on: 2004-08-05 18:27:59 »
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Casey
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Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #32 on: 2004-08-05 18:38:44 »
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Quote from: Joe Dees on 2004-08-05 16:10:42   

My sincerest apologies, Casey; I checked and that was Walter, not you.

And my article posting has dropped dramatically - although I will note that the arguments and evidence contained in the articles I have posted here stand or fall on their own, regardless of their source - this principle (excision of ad hominem from a critique) is elementary logic.

The problem with taking the high road alone is that it puts those feisty yappers who take the low road at the perfect elevation from which to bite my ankles.  When this happens, I need to kick them loose so that I can proceed unhindered.

Thanks for the apology.  It's much appreciated.

I still feel you could, and should, take the high road.  But, you alone shall decide what you feel is important in that regard.  I wish you the clarity to decide what is best for yourself and the community as a whole.

Kind regards,
Casey
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Re: virus: Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #33 on: 2004-08-05 18:44:20 »
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Ok, new to the mailing list: Hi everyone. First off, sorry to sound like
this but-

Can we get some perspective please?

I for one enjoy a little sparring with Dees from time to time. We're not
meant to agree with one another otherwise we would have nothing to talk
about here. Dees has a good mind (when he isn't hiding behind cutting and
pasting someone elses neo-liberal rhetoric) and has as much right to post
here as anyone. I'm never going to agree with him, anymore than he's going
to agree with me on certain subjects. But that doesn't mean I want to ban
the guy.

I do, however, think that there is a time and a place for everything.
Certainly, throwing c&p'd articles about around like so much Agent Orange,
all with the same point- everyone is wrong but him, America is great, Bush
is great, islam sucks- has certainly killed my enthusiasm for posting on the
CoV recently. We get it, Dees. Honestly.

Can I make a suggestion, Dees? Stick to one or two threads on the Serious
Business section with regards to this subject. When you're provoked, ignore
them. I'll be happy to spar with you there: I'll tell you in greatly
researched detail just how wrong your opinions are. And you can do the same
for me. But lets let everyone else have a little peace.

BTW, making veiled threats to ban him is below the belt guys. We're supposed
to be beyond the whole 'tribalism/culture of taboo' thing, remember?

Perhaps its time to get back to the threads intended subject.


p.s Sorry that my first post on the mailing list makes me sound like a
nagging mother. Hope to start off a few topics over the next couple of days.
Have an idea concerning a book/thesis on exploitation behaviours. Let you
know.



romanov

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Re: virus: Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #34 on: 2004-08-05 20:21:30 »
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No,

You did not say that if you were attacked, you'd defend yourself.  Read what you wrote.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Joe Dees" <hidden@lucifer.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 16:27:59
To:virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: virus: Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?


Simul Says:

Joe,

Here you are, trolling as usual.

Why don't you see it?

My answer is:

If you think that I am trolling and that the below referenced post constitutes bait, you must think the list pool to be populated with a lot of starving fish.  All I said was that if I were attacked, that I would defend myself.  Nothing come-hither about that - unless, of course, you consider yourself to be one of those low-road-travelling feisty yappers who cannot restrain themselves from ankle-nipping at me.  If you do, then that is your problem, and not mine, unless you choose to endeavor to make it so, at which point I, of course, will deal with it - kinda like this.  Are you one of those people?  And if you are, why don't you see it, and if you do see it, that is, if you consider yourself to be one of those people, why don't you cease and desist?

-----Original Message-----
From: "Joe Dees" <hidden@lucifer.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:10:43
To:virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?


My sincerest apologies, Casey; I checked and that was Walter, not you.

And my article posting has dropped dramatically - although I will note that the arguments and evidence contained in the articles I have posted here stand or fall on their own, regardless of their source - this principle (excision of ad hominem from a critique) is elementary logic.

The problem with taking the high road alone is that it puts those feisty yappers who take the low road at the perfect elevation from which to bite my ankles.  When this happens, I need to kick them loose so that I can proceed unhindered.

----
This message was posted by Joe Dees to the Virus 2004 board on Church of Virus BBS.
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=30688>
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This message was posted by Joe Dees to the Virus 2004 board on Church of Virus BBS.
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=30688>
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #35 on: 2004-08-06 08:38:42 »
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  And yet again, a thread created for the purpose of creating a better CoV... ruined.  I'm trying to keep 'my faith' here guys.  I've tried off and on for awhile now trying to get this place going again, as it did before, as have a few others, whom I highly respect for their efforts.

  I do not wish to censor anyone.  I do not wish to ban Joe from the list.  I think that would be degrading to the CoV, but Joe, you do not make it easy at all.  It wouldn't be so bad to have a heated discussion about politics from time to time, infact, I highly enjoy that.  Banning politics on the list is just a way to try to deal with you.  Take a look at the post count.  Take a look at the total posts for the last year.  Half of the posts were made by you.  Most of these posts being C&P Right-Wing articles that gets 0-2 views.

  Obviously you are not going to make any progress convincing those with their opinions.  So posting C&P articles like crazy to a list that does not want to view such things, is no worse than I going to a Christian forum and arguing evolution.  It's simply nothing but trolling.

  This discussion is perfectly alright and acceptable on the BBS where it isn't mass-mailed to all the members of the CoV.  (Or atleast most the active ones.)  I do not want to see you banned.  You are a smart guy.  Your to be witty, as well as write, is far beyond what I will probably ever achieve.  You're intelligent, hell, you might even be right on the issue of Iraq and such... but it doesn't matter.  This is just not acceptable behavior on the list.  It is destructive behavior.  Not only is it distructive and degrading to the CoV, it is destructive and disrespectful to yourself to handle things the way you do.

My thoughts lately has been to eliminate the mailing list.  Really, with a CMS and forum system, the mailing list is a bit obsolete.  Most good modern forum systems have a set up where you can sort of suscribe to a topic and have replys posted in your mail box.  I believe this would be a much more desirable route for most others.  I am not certain on this, just an assumption of mine.  I believe I'll make a series of posts to the list (and also put the issue on the 'vote' area) about the direct others want the CoV to go.  By that I believe we can create a better community.  I'm sure there will be changes made that'll cause some people to leave... and probably some features will be added that'll attract others, and keep the majority of the existing members.  I believe this is a gamble, at this point, most of us are willing to take.

But again, I'm going to ask, do any of you want to join the 'team' that is going to help create the new CoV?

So far, I believe these are the people whom are interested:

Simul
Walter Watts
Rhinoceros
Lucifer
And myself.

Perhaps Lucifer can create a board for us to further discuss the areas that we excell and and what we'd like to contribute to the cause?
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Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #36 on: 2004-08-06 09:49:20 »
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Quote from: ElvenSage on 2004-08-06 08:38:42   

Perhaps Lucifer can create a board for us to further discuss the areas that we excell and and what we'd like to contribute to the cause?

The Suggestion Box board would be a good place for related discussions.
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Re: virus: Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #37 on: 2004-08-06 18:13:12 »
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Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #38 on: 2004-08-06 18:35:37 »
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Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #39 on: 2004-08-06 21:20:34 »
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[romanov]
BTW, making veiled threats to ban him is below the belt guys. We're supposed to be beyond the whole 'tribalism/culture of taboo' thing, remember?

[rhinoceros]
Romanov,  two years ago i used to engage in point by point arguments with Joe Dees. The situation has been deteriorating since that time, and I had to get rid of my illusions. If you don't care to read the archives, just notice that Joe Dees has been *talking to himself* during the whole last week, excorcizing "islamofascist" conspiracies (can this get more ridiculous?), in response to a one-liner humorous remark by someone.

Joe Dees *is* the problem; people with a whit of dignity *leave* for other communities rather than put up with his childish obsessions. Joe is not simply a right-winger; he is *ridden* by "The Meme". We have right-wingers here with more extreme positions than Joe Dees, but none of them ridicules the community with such childish anti-"islamofascist" rants directed at many of us.  The more committed virians just give him a low rating. The less committed ones just *leave* Think of it when the procedure seems to you like banning. People leave, people stop participating, people pass by and walk away.

In his last couple of posts Joe Dees promises a more considerate behavior "if they" (or else). I have heard it again. He is playing coy to get over the crisis and then to start all over again with the exact same "arguments" -- pasting half a dozen articles as "punishment" for an anti-Bush statement. And several new people will just smile and go somewhere else. As I said, I don't have my illusions any more.

I felt that I was voting for the people who are not here any more and for the people who are going to join us in the future, when I supported placing a reasonable reputation limit to what gets into people's mailboxes in this vote:
http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=voteResults;idvote=77

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Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #40 on: 2004-08-06 21:50:41 »
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[Joe Dees]
I could not help but notice that most of the people you listed are precisely the ones who periodically engage in gratuitous Bush-bashing here, and who attack me when I refute their points, rather than attack my refutation (probably because they can't).  What face would such a 'new CoV' wear?  The anti-Bush equivalent of a Christian fundie site (your own ference) [...]
<snip>


[rhinoceros]
Elven's plan was about designing the new CoV, not about you. Do you think we should make special provisions for you personally, or for GW Bush? Why? Should we "balance politics" perhaps? Or should we include someone who supports "civil rights" in our KKK? (your own reference.)

Since my name was in Elven's list, I am for making CoV a more intelectually interesting place and for keeping undesirable stuff out of the visitor's view.

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Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #41 on: 2004-08-06 22:11:23 »
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Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #42 on: 2004-08-06 22:39:27 »
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[Joe Dees]
The illusions of which Rhinocerous had to painfully divest himself were the illusions that he could rationally and evidentiarily defend his political contentions, which are born of his infestation with the Bush=Hitler, The US is always wrong/worse than the terrorists, and xtuin fundamentalism is much worse than Islamic fundamentalism memes.

[rhinoceros]
Inventive. Was I there when it happened? Do you realize that you are still talking to yourself?


[Joe Dees]
I do notice, however that when I refute such allegations, the attacks are immediately redirected towards me - this has become typical CoV behaviour for these ravingly unrecalcitrant Totalitarian-Far-Left-Worshipping, BusHitlerGreatSatanUSA memebots.

[rhinoceros]
My point exactly. What allegation did you refute and by whom?  Did it occur you for a moment that the "immediate redirection" happens because you are making up elaborate insults out of thin air?

<snip>

[Joe Dees]
The problem isn't that I'm just waiting for things to blow over so I can continue to propagandize; the problem is that those who are in zombic thrall to the abovementioned memes cannot restrain themselves from indulging in them, and then I counter their fallacies with posted articles which clearly refute their allegations - and it peeves them to no end.  They would prefer that their vicious and erroneous piling on was unchallenged, much less unrefuted.

[rhinoceros]
Same tune. What are you replying to? What compelled you to defend your cut&paste floods here? Aren't these more childish insults out of thin air?


[Joe Dees]
Intellectually interesting does not mean lockstep political litmus-test-enforced, except on the yonder side of the Rhino-in-Wonderland mirror.  And it most certainly does not mean to be UNbalanced, either politically or otherwise.

[rhinoceros]
Intellectually interesting is what interests intellectual people. I also note that your literary style would be really dull and hollow if you took out the epithets and the metaphors, even if they are also out of thin air.


[Joe Dees]
And as far as me being a right-winger, I most decidedly am not.  My only conservatism is fiscal; I favor pay-as-we-go to either Democratic tax-and-spend or Republican borrow-and-spend.  I am socially liberal, favoring abortion rights, legalization of marijuana, gay marriage, legal gambling, lagal pornography, and legal euthanasia.

[rhinoceros]
We have already heard al this many times. This, and how you used to be a democrat and voted for Al Gore before you saw the light. Not that I asked.


[Joe Dees]
I do, however, support waging war on those Islamofascists who would terrowrize us into giving up the hope of all of these, and giving up the realities of gender egalitarianism, participatory democracy, free scientific inquiry, and freedom of thought, speech and religion besides.!

[rhinoceros]
We know it too well, of course, and *that is exactly the problem*.  You have been unable to keep it out once more.


[Joe Dees]
This clearly makes me a fiscally conservative pro-war-on-terror liberal (not leftist), and there are a lot of us out there.  So I'd appreciate your not repeating the false and vilely malicious 'right-winger' canard, thankyouverymuch

[rhinoceros]
No problem. I can do this without even bargaining for the hilarious epithets with which you have been decorating me. The "liberal - not leftist" stuff is not "The Meme" which rides you anyway -- you only occasionally mention it.

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Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #43 on: 2004-08-06 23:32:00 »
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Re:Ways to encourage a CoV-like life-style?
« Reply #44 on: 2004-08-06 23:50:47 »
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BTW, I didn't say that JD is not a right-winger. I only said that I am willing not to call him one.

Other than that, I'll leave his last reply as it is. From my side it conveys exactly what I meant to say, and I guess Joe Dees is satisfied with it too since he wrote it.

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