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Jukka E Isosaari
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virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« on: 2003-11-26 00:02:00 »
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Re:virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« Reply #1 on: 2003-11-26 06:41:13 »
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As soon as I saw the phrase "Bush Christians", I stopped reading. Sympathetic sentiments and pro-Israel apologism did not and do not originate with any member of the Bush family. Bush is an Illuminati? Yea, and hkhenson is a Scientologist.

Internet folks usually say I'm "anti-Semitic" or a "Jewhater" because I say their definition of anti-Semitism is wrong. I'm anti-Israel as well as anti-Palestine, but I'm not a Neo-Nazi or a "Jewhater." [My sister's boyfriend is Jewish. I have several Jewish friends just as I have Christian, Buddhist, Mormon, and Protestant friends.] Both states are governed by terroristic organizations. I'm more apt to urge others to learn this fact and be pro-active in their political communities to rid the U.S. of the Israeli grip on American political power than to take sides with either state. U.S. presidents have long been puppets of AIPAC and other Zionist lobbies for at least 30 years and this deterioration of American political power in American hands must be stopped.
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Re: virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« Reply #2 on: 2003-11-26 08:41:22 »
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Many forms of extremism, especially religious, are idiotic.  Fortunately these views are in the minority.  Unfortunately, popular media favors stories about these points of view.  Fortunately, this provides us with the opportunity to take a stand for rational centrism and rationalism.  Unfortunately, most centrists resort to apathy as a way of expressing their moderate views.  Fortunately, apathy is easy to overcome by becoming....a Virian.
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Re: virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« Reply #3 on: 2003-11-26 09:46:54 »
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....This pretty much smacks of what i've encountered amongst jews and
especially israelis all over the world.  i went from not really knowing them
and thinking they were really great people, to having many experiences with
them, and pretty much despising them and their value systems.

today, if i encounter a self-proclaimed 'jew' or israeli, i approach them
with 90% sceptisism and expect to just stay the hell away from them,
business with them, or trusting relationships with them.  i just assume that
they see me as something of an animal or at the very least; not one of "gods
chosen people" which pretty much assumes a 2nd class status....something im
really not about to tolerate.



DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".





----Original Message Follows----
From: Jei <jei@cc.hut.fi>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:02:00 +0200 (EET)

http://www.savethemales.ca/240902.html

    Zionism, Anti Semitism and American Democracy

    By Henry Makow Ph.D.
    September 24, 2002

    Bush Christians who believe Israel represents an outpost of Western
    Civilization might benefit from a book entitled "Jewish History,
    Jewish Religion" (1994) by Israel Shahak, a Professor Emeritus at
    Hebrew University.

    Shahak escaped from a Nazi concentration camp and later served in the
    Israeli army. He is an organic chemist who combines a research
    scientist's objectivity with a humanist's commitment to universal
    ideals.

    It appears that Judaism made a mistake when it rejected Christ's
    gospel of Love. As a consequence, Judaism may have become a primitive
    and possibly dangerous anachronism in the 21st Century. According to
    Shahak, Judaism is a xenophobic totalitarian belief system that has
    morphed into a fanatical Zionist ideology that now threatens the whole
    world. I must admit that, even as an assimilated Jew, reading this
    book was like taking cod liver oil, not pleasant.

    Shahak writes:

    1. The Talmud, which consists of rabbinical interpretations of the
        law, treats Christ and Christians with contempt. Unlike the Koran,
        which regards Christ as a great prophet, the Talmud contains "very
        offensive precepts and statements directed specifically against
        Christianity. For example, in addition to a series of scurrilous
        sexual allegations against Jesus, the Talmud states that his
        punishment in hell is to be immersed in boiling excrement. . .
        Jews are instructed to burn, publicly if possible, any copy of the
        New Testament that comes into their hands." (p. 21)

    2. The Talmud treats non-Jews as sub human and directs Jews to
        discriminate against them. For example, the concept of adultery
        "does not apply to intercourse between a Jewish man and a gentile
        woman; rather, the Talmud equates such intercourse to the sin of
        bestiality." (87) Robbery (with violence) is strictly forbidden if
        the victim is Jewish, but is permitted if the victim is Gentile,
        "when they are under our rule." "The whole [rabbinical] debate is
        concerned only with the relative powers of Jews and gentiles
        rather than with universal considerations of justice and humanity,
        " Shahak writes. "This may be why so few rabbis have protested
        over the robbery of Palestinian property in Israel." (90)

    3. Shahak disputes whether Judaism is in fact monotheistic: "In many
        if not most of the books of the Old Testament, the existence and
        powers of 'other Gods' are clearly acknowledged, but Yahweh
        (Jehovah) is the most powerful of his rivals, and forbids his
        people to worship them." The decay of monotheism came about
        through the spread of Jewish mysticism (the cabbala), which is now
        dominant and includes many prayers and actions designed to
        propitiate Satan. (32-33)

    4. The Old Testament does not have the same place in Judaism as the
        New Testament has for Christianity. Most biblical verses are
        reinterpreted by the Talmud in a sense that is distinct and quite
        contrary to their literal meaning. For example, the famous verse
        'thy shall love thy fellow as thyself' (Leviticus 19:18) is
        understood as an injunction to love one's fellow Jew not any
        fellow man. (37)

    According to Shahak, classical Judaism is not so much a religion as an
    tyrannical system of social control administered by rabbis. Ordinary
    Jews were forced to obey a labyrinth of capricious laws on pain of
    fines, beatings or even murder, administered by the non-Jewish
    aristocracy that would get a share of the fines.

    Aristocrats and the Jewish elite had other common interests.
    Throughout the middle ages, Jews served as middlemen, or bailiffs
    administering the oppression of the peasants by Gentile kings and
    nobles. Often the king would give Jews the concession to manage his
    holdings. Without condoning pogroms or the holocaust, this and the
    above-mentioned teachings are probably the real causes of anti
    Semitism.

    The tyranny of aristocrats and rabbis was broken by the Enlightenment,
    which gave rise to the nation state, the middle class, democracy and
    the rule of reason. Jews and non-Jews alike were liberated. The New
    World Order represents a kind of neo feudalism, an attempt to restore
    the old order. Aristocrats and their moneylenders, organized in secret
    societies like the Freemasons (who believe in the cabbala) make up the
    Illuminati. It also includes dynastic families, which control large
    cartels in partnership with the moneylenders. For more than a hundred
    years, these people have worked behind the scenes to destroy the four
    pillars of Western Civilization: The nation-state, Christianity,
    democracy and the family.

    Communist Russia and Israel are both Illuminati states, created to
    foster oligarchic world government. Israel is intended to be the seat
    of world government/religion. The Star of David is also a Masonic
    symbol.

    In Communism, the sons of rabbis built a new worldly religion that
    mirrored the fanaticism and oppression of classical Judaism. After
    visiting Bolshevik Russia in 1920, Bertrand Russell wrote to Lady
    Ottoline Morrell: "Bolshevism is a closed tyrannical bureaucracy, with
    a spy system more elaborate and terrible than the Tsar's, and an
    aristocracy as insolent and unfeeling, composed of Americanised Jews.
    No vestige of liberty remains, in thought or speech or action." (The
    Autobiography of Bertrand Russell, paperback ed. 354)

    Since World War One, the United States and England have been
    controlled by this IIluminati conspiracy. New York bankers financed
    the Bolshevik Revolution (1917) and transferred Trotsky and 270 Jewish
    revolutionaries to Russia to carry it out. "See Antony Sutton's Wall
    Street and the Bolshevik Revolution," They had England conquer
    Palestine for the Zionists at the same time.

    As a result, here is the current state of American democracy:

    Senate Majority leader Tom Daschle says Congress doesn't want to
    "rubber stamp" Bush's invasion of Iraq but "doesn't want to be
    uncooperative either." Senator Robert Byrd, made of sterner stuff,
    says his belief in the American Constitution will prevent him from
    voting for Bush's war resolution. "But I am finding that the
    Constitution is irrelevant to people in this administration."
    (Charleston Gazette, Sept. 21.)

    Perhaps Senator Daschle is afraid of AIPAC, the powerful Zionist lobby
    that recently defeated Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney. In his 1985
    book, "They Dare to Speak Out" Paul Findley, an Illinois Congressman
    who was defeated by AIPAC after serving 22 years writes: "It is no
    overstatement to say that AIPAC has effectively gained control of
    Capitol Hill's action on Middle East policy.... AIPAC means power...
    raw intimidating power."(25)

    George W. Bush, a member of an illuminati family, as well as a
    creature of big oil, needs little incentive to do Israel's bidding.
    Nevertheless, Lyndon Larouche has amassed evidence of a cadre of
    Zionist agents at the highest levels of the US government who control
    policy much like Communist agents controlled FDR . See also Michael
    Hoffman "The Wolf of the Whitehouse."

    This Zionist network, which includes Richard Perle and David
    Wolfowitz, pressed Bill Clinton to invade Iraq in 1998. When he
    resisted, they may have paralysed his administration with the Lewinsky
    scandal. Similarly, Sherman Skolnick believes the Mossad is
    blackmailing Bush with pictures of a homosexual nature.

    In his 1995 book, "The Other Side of Deception: A Rogue Agent Exposes
    the Mossad's Secret Agenda" Victor Ostrovsky asked his superiors why
    they were trying to instigate a war between the US and Iraq. The reply
    was that Israel does not have the manpower and aircraft carriers to do
    the job. As you know, five young Mossad agents were arrested doing
    high-fives Sept. 11 in a parking lot across the river from the WTC
    where they were "documenting" the "terrorist" attack with video
    cameras.

    In a speech at Harvard last week, the president Lawrence Summer, a
    Jew, lamented the rising tide of anti-Semitism. He attributed this to
    "prejudice" and says he thought "the right of the Jewish state to
    exist" had been decided.

    It is curious that while Palestinians are being dispossessed and
    persecuted, Summers thinks "Israel's right to exist" is the issue.
    According to Israeli commentator Uri Avnery, Arafat accepted Israel's
    right to exist 28 years ago but Ariel Sharon "wants a greater Israel,
    the extension of the settlements and eventually the elimination of the
    Palestinian presence west of the Jordan."

    The hoisting of an Israeli flag above the ruins of Yasser Arafat's
    Ramallah compound tells the story. Many Israelis feel just as helpless
    as we do. In an article in Ha'aretz, Yoel Marcus writes of Ariel
    Sharon, "Our democracy has been commandeered by one man."

    Curious how Lawrence Summers refers to opposition to the Zionist
    agenda as "prejudice." Anger over Zionist control of the US
    government, its muzzling of education and the media, and possible
    involvement in Sept. 11 is hardly what I would call "prejudice." For
    generations Jews have dehumanized other people by denying their
    legitimate grievances. In Shahak's words, "an enslaved peasant [who
    rebels] is transformed into a racist monster if Jews profited from his
    state of slavery and exploitation." (73)

    No people should be tarred by the actions of a few. Most Jews
    (including Israelis) are themselves victims of the Illuminati Zionist
    conspiracy. Yitzak Rabin was murdered because of his sincere desire to
    make peace. I believe people are individuals and should be judged as
    such.

    Nonetheless Jews must confront the reasons for anti Semitism or else
    it will spread. We must confront Jews (and non-Jews) who have become
    bailiffs in the New World Order, and join our neighbors in trying to
    restore democracy, freedom and truth to our beleaguered planet.

    ----------
    Henry Makow © 2003
    --------------
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Re: virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« Reply #4 on: 2003-11-26 10:30:01 »
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"...them, and pretty much despising them and their value systems..."

The foremost Jewish value is to be analytical, to be knowledgable, to question rather than to judge.

I was raised Jewish, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

I've never liked orthodox stuff, of course, but, then again, I'm not a fan of fundamentalism in any religion...

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Re: virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« Reply #5 on: 2003-11-26 18:10:05 »
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I'm just plain xenophobic............

Walter

metahuman wrote:

> As soon as I saw the phrase "Bush Christians", I stopped reading. Sympathetic sentiments and pro-Israel apologism did not and do not originate with any member of the Bush family. Bush is an Illuminati? Yea, and hkhenson is a Scientologist.
>
> Internet folks usually say I'm "anti-Semitic" or a "Jewhater" because I say their definition of anti-Semitism is wrong. I'm anti-Israel as well as anti-Palestine, but I'm not a Neo-Nazi or a "Jewhater." [My sister's boyfriend is Jewish. I have several Jewish friends just as I have Christian, Buddhist, Mormon, and Protestant friends.] Both states are governed by terroristic organizations. I'm more apt to urge others to learn this fact and be pro-active in their political communities to rid the U.S. of the Israeli grip on American political power than to take sides with either state. U.S. presidents have long been puppets of AIPAC and other Zionist lobbies for at least 30 years and this deterioration of American political power in American hands must be stopped.
>
> ----
> This message was posted by metahuman to the Virus 2003 board on Church of Virus BBS.
> <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=54;action=display;threadid=29719>
> ---
> To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>

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Re:virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« Reply #6 on: 2003-11-26 20:20:04 »
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Quote:
The foremost Jewish value is to be analytical, to be knowledgable, to question rather than to judge.
Yeah, Judaism is representative of that... :rolleyes:
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Re:virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« Reply #7 on: 2003-11-26 20:22:15 »
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Speaking of judging... or rather prejudging...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Movies/08/28/passion.protest/index.html
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Re: virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« Reply #8 on: 2003-11-26 23:24:10 »
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...i know you didnt mean it this way, but your "..if you have any
questions..." line sounded almost smarmy and disregarding in that "patient
and understanding way" typically reserved for the most constipated of
jehovah's witnesses on your door step. =-)  makes me want to weep...

....just kidding there:) but truly; i have never understood people's
capacity to "not approve" of orthodox religion and yet embrace a watered
down version of the same.  if im not mistaken, nearly all world religions
have one book or another, clearly stating their rules and regulations. 
while these tenets may be interpreted this way or that way, it doesnt seem
reasonable to interpret them right into non-existence if one is supposedly
"of" that particular faith.  to do so is tantamount to admitting it's all a
bunch of gorilla shit that youre making up along the way and while youre at
it, making sure it fits somewhere within your lifestyle parameters.  i say
"Go Fanatic, or it Stays in the Attic" (tm).

...so unless youre a beard wearin', top hat flarin',
ringlets swingin', pocket change jinglin',
light bulb hatin', arab baitin'
weekend walkin', hebrew talkin'
christian killin', christ-blood spillin'
silly-hat sportin', jew-girl courtin'
kosher eatin', synagogue meetin'
torah quotin', leiberman votin' jew...or...
be a good old fashioned atheist.


DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Erik Aronesty" <erik@zoneedit.com>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:30:01 -0400

"...them, and pretty much despising them and their value systems..."

The foremost Jewish value is to be analytical, to be knowledgable, to
question rather than to judge.

I was raised Jewish, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

I've never liked orthodox stuff, of course, but, then again, I'm not a fan
of fundamentalism in any religion...

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Re:virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« Reply #9 on: 2003-11-27 00:23:58 »
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I'd rather Joe L. for president since he'd be more able to say no to Israel. It's hard for the media to shout "Jewhater" if the person they're shouting at is a jew.
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Re: virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« Reply #10 on: 2003-11-27 18:47:36 »
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"...i know you didnt mean it this way, but"

Feel free to add that qualifier before all your interpretations and meaning-making.

The truth about judaism is the same as the truth in all religions.  On one hand, Jews value knowledge, always questioning and seeking clarification.  This is the noble heart. On the other side, the religion is full of rituals whose original purpose had been forgotten.  It is exclusive, and it contains an implicit "ranking" system, where no Jew ever feels adequate enough or Jewish enough. 

There are positive and negative sides to every religious practice.  The trick is to, when dealing with a religious person, foster the good stuff and look beyond the stuff that doesn't appeal to you.  Every person on this planet has potential.

And on the subject of "a little dogma is just as bad as a lot" ... My answer to that is that by villifying all religion, you are creating a religion of your own, just as dogmatic and as the rest.  This is fine, just so you know what you are doing.
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Re: virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« Reply #11 on: 2003-11-28 02:38:30 »
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Re: virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« Reply #12 on: 2003-11-28 08:57:05 »
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http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/paper/RISKY3.PDF

and there are other papers by this guy as well

http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/paper/RISKY3.PDF

Looking at aspects of this business from an evolutionary perspective.

Keith

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Re: virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« Reply #13 on: 2003-11-28 11:18:00 »
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I would argue that everything we claim to "know" is a matter of faith, absent referents (kant).  True atheism itself is a matter of faith.  The only tenable or "non faithful" position is to be an agnostic or a "non practicing/unsure" christian, jew, etc.

Fortunately this is the majority of people.  Unfortunately, the minority are the "leaders" and the most outspoken.

As a wise Jew once said: "I've learned enough about Jesus that if he is the son of God, I should be able to argue my way into heaven."

Hehe. 

Note from Erik's mom:

"If people like religion and it makes them feel better and it doesn't hurt anybody, what the fuck, let them be self-deluded."
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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Re:virus: Zionism, Anti-Semitism and American Democracy
« Reply #14 on: 2003-11-28 11:44:41 »
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[simul] I would argue that everything we claim to "know" is a matter of faith, absent referents (kant). 

[Lucifer] This may be true for certain broad definitions of "faith", but you should realize that most of us here have a narrower definition of faith that implies that the level of belief in a proposition (the truth value assigned, or confidence, probability or plausability level) is not supported by the evidence available.

[simul] Note from Erik's mom:

"If people like religion and it makes them feel better and it doesn't hurt anybody, what the fuck, let them be self-deluded."

[Lucifer] I would have to agree that if all three conditions are met, then let them be self-deluded. The real question is whether self-delusion leads (probabilistically) to anyone getting hurt.
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