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Topic: Invisible Story of the Day; Religion turns people into really hateful lemmings! (Read 1058 times) |
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Hermit
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Invisible Story of the Day; Religion turns people into really hateful lemmings!
« on: 2006-11-12 14:12:28 » |
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Elton John says religion promotes homophobia
Source: Associated Press
Authors: Not Credited
Dated: 2006-11-11
Refer Also: Google News
Organized religion fuels anti-gay discrimination and other forms of bias, pop star Elton John said in an interview published Saturday.
"I think religion has always tried to turn hatred towards gay people," John said in the Observer newspaper's Music Monthly Magazine. "Religion promotes the hatred and spite against gays."
"But there are so many people I know who are gay and love their religion," he said. "From my point of view, I would ban religion completely. Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate."
Religious leaders have also failed to do anything about tensions and conflicts around the world, he said.
"Why aren't they having a conclave? Why aren't they coming together?" he asked.
John said those in his own field have been similarly lax.
"It's like the peace movement in the '60s. Musicians got through to people by getting out there and doing peace concerts, but we don't seem to do them any more," he said. "If John Lennon were alive today, he'd be leading it with a vengeance."
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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Ford
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Re:Invisible Story of the Day; Religion turns people into really hateful lemming
« Reply #1 on: 2006-11-13 11:40:04 » |
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I think Elton John may be correct, but he has left quite a bit out of his statements. There is far more involved than just Religion. Religion itself usually comes packaged with a deity of some type. This deity usually creates something. We normally come from said creation or directly from the hands of the fore-mentioned deity. In such case straying from social and/or natural normalcy is considered evil. In a modern sense that would be an horrible situation. However, historically people would not listen to a wise man. They would listen to a prophet though, and in such a way religion came to control people, keep them in line, keep them from killing one another, keep them from many diseases etc... It was a tool of governing bodies, thrust upon the masses to blind them and control them. In the case of homosexuality... if all grapes are seedless then grapes cease to exist.
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Hermit
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Re:Invisible Story of the Day; Religion turns people into really hateful lemming
« Reply #2 on: 2006-11-15 13:48:56 » |
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[Hermit] Hello fistfullofroses (from here on, FFOR). Welcome to the ranks of the posters at the Church of Virus. Sorry not to have commented on your post earlier, but I only just noticed it.
[FFOR] I think Elton John may be correct, but he has left quite a bit out of his statements.
[Hermit] Fair enough I think he was saying something pithy, not writing an encyclopedia.
[FFOR] There is far more involved than just Religion. Religion itself usually comes packaged with a deity of some type. This deity usually creates something.
[Hermit] The deities are imaginary. This can be shown by the fact that the deities tend to reflect their creators. Particularly in their limitations. Imaginary things create nothing.
[FFOR] We normally come from said creation or directly from the hands of the fore-mentioned deity.
[Hermit] No. We evolved and are evolving. Physically (Darwinian) and socially (Lamarckian). This is why many people are superior to the deities they have inherited.
[FFOR] In such case straying from social and/or natural normalcy is considered evil.
[Hermit] Peoples' views of their deities and their rules are typically influenced by their societies. Brutal society, brutal rules. Vice versa. The deities and their books (if written) don't change, but the interpretations do. Its why most Jews and Christians (and even a few atheists and Pagans who have spent too much time in the company of Jews and Christians) seem to imagine themselves superior to Muslims, despite all of their "holy" books being filled with nasty shit when they are not meaningless - and vice versa.
[FFOR] In a modern sense that would be an horrible situation.
[Hermit] It is a horrible situation.
[FFOR] However, historically people would not listen to a wise man.
[Hermit] This is not always true. It is only when people hear things that they are not used to that they reject it. In otherwords, repeat anything often enough through enough channels and people will willingly accept it no matter how nonsensical. Look at how successful Faux TV is.
[FFOR] They would listen to a prophet though, and in such a way religion came to control people, keep them in line, keep them from killing one another, keep them from many diseases etc...
[Hermit] All the evidence goes the other way. Religion originated to draw groups larger than tribes together to kill those who didn't rub the same blue mud into their tummy buttons the same way. The corollary of "Heretics taste good when appropriately seasoned" is that "one man's believer is another man's heretic". And I see little evidence that priests are effective doctors. Science cures disease. Priests pray over the dying and dead. The more religious a society, the shorter its lives are. Whether one of these causes the other is not determined, but they are unlikely, in my opinion, to be unrelated.
[FFOR] It was a tool of governing bodies, thrust upon the masses to blind them and control them.
[Hermit] Probably. Religion is still used to do that.
[FFOR] In the case of homosexuality... if all grapes are seedless then grapes cease to exist.
[Hermit] Religion is always more interested in controlling the now, than what tomorrow will bring. Sex being a high priority, controlling sex is a very powerful form of control. Controlling reproduction being even more powerful. Look at the Catholic and other religions' "abstinence" regime, which tend, in all cultures adopting them, to result in paederasty. A sport reserved to and facilitated for the priests by ensuring that children are always available (If its in deep, and its in tight, then its indecent.).
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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Blunderov
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Re:Invisible Story of the Day; Religion turns people into really hateful lemming
« Reply #3 on: 2006-11-15 15:08:37 » |
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Quote from: fistfullofroses on 2006-11-13 11:40:04
In the case of homosexuality... if all grapes are seedless then grapes cease to exist.
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[Blunderov] Why should one even begin to suppose that ALL the grapes would ever become seedless? Or even a majority of them? Furthermore, many "homosexuals" are in fact bisexual which allows perfectly well for the possibility of procreation.
(I'm happy to say that today the South African government passed a law permitting homosexual marriage and is the first African nation to do so.)
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Hermit
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Re:Invisible Story of the Day; Religion turns people into really hateful lemming
« Reply #4 on: 2006-11-15 16:02:03 » |
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I have been following that story and am proud of you. It creates a major problem for homophobic nations that have signed treaties agreeing to reciprocal recognition of marriages. Hooray!
Hermit
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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Ford
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Re:Invisible Story of the Day; Religion turns people into really hateful lemming
« Reply #5 on: 2006-11-15 20:01:03 » |
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First, I guess I should start by saying that I agree with all the things Hermit said in his reply to my post. However, I did (as usual) fail to communicate the point I was trying to make. I was trying to say that I think religions are usually invented by the intellectuals of a given society. The aim of those intellectuals (in my opinion) is to control the masses. People are more likely to grab hold of a religion and do as it says, than follow said intellectual's words when no "God" is provided. Whether they follow out of trepidation or by parental teaching is of no consequence so long as they believe blindly and adamantly every tenet the religion contains. My basis for my theory comes from only one observation, and thus is most likely completely wrong in every possible way. I have based my theory on Judeo-Christian religion; more particularly the evidence for this theory is contained within the books of Moses.
Hermit : I look forward to reply to this message, since I found your other reply extremely informative and helpful.
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Blunderov
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Re:Invisible Story of the Day; Religion turns people into really hateful lemming
« Reply #6 on: 2006-11-16 12:23:26 » |
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Quote from: Hermit on 2006-11-15 16:02:03
I have been following that story and am proud of you. It creates a major problem for homophobic nations that have signed treaties agreeing to reciprocal recognition of marriages. Hooray!
Hermit
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[Blunderov] Zapiro is proud of us too 
Zapiro gay marriage cartoon
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Blunderov
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Re:Invisible Story of the Day; Religion turns people into really hateful lemming
« Reply #7 on: 2006-11-23 12:40:38 » |
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Quote from: Hermit on 2006-11-15 16:02:03
I have been following that story and am proud of you. It creates a major problem for homophobic nations that have signed treaties agreeing to reciprocal recognition of marriages. Hooray!
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[Blunderov] The Hermit's prediction seems to be bearing out.
Volokh Conspiracy
[Ilya Somin, November 22, 2006 at 12:09am] [edit]
Israeli Supreme Court Requires Recognition of Gay Marriage:
In a recent decision, the High Court of Israel has ruled that the Israeli government must recognize gay marriages contracted by its citizens abroad and extend to them the same benefits granted to heterosexual marriages. The decision does not mean that Israeli gays and lesbians can enter into homosexual marriages in Israel itself. The Israeli state does not have any system of civil marriage, and - to my knowledge - none of the state-certified religious authorities (Jewish, Muslim, and Christian) endorse gay marriage. Moreover, the decision is based on statutory interpretation rather than constitutional grounds (Israel does not have a written constitution). Therefore, the Knesset (Israeli parliament) could potentially override the holding by amending its marriage recognition law.
However, under the new decision, Israeli citizens can enter into gay marriages in foreign jurisdictions that allow them (such as Canada, Massachusetts, and some European countries), and have them recognized by the Israeli state. Given the large number of Israelis who travel and/or live abroad, it is likely that many Israeli gays and lesbians will be able to take advantage of the court's decision. And while the Knesset can indeed override the decision if it chooses to do so, it is far from clear that such a measure can get through Israel's fractious parliament anytime soon.
In any event, as Andrew Sullivan points out: "The contrast with the murderous homophobia in the Arab-Muslim Middle East could not be starker."
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