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   Author  Topic: Gender and Nature in Contemporary NeoPaganism  (Read 1363 times)
Joe Dees
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Gender and Nature in Contemporary NeoPaganism
« on: 2002-11-26 18:39:26 »
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localroger
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Small Note on the Mother-Goddess
« Reply #1 on: 2003-04-06 11:13:12 »
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I used to hang out with a lot of practicing Wiccans (and participated in quite a few rituals) and I have noticed one thing about the neoPagan formulation of the Goddess:  She is incomplete.

I think it's fair to say most Wiccans have a conception of the Goddess that is not much different from the picture on a certain margarine container.

However, the original Goddess had three forms.  She was the Virgin (most Wiccans do get that), Mother (classical form), ... and Crone.  As in not just wise old woman, but Kali the Destroyer.

Mother Nature may give us all life but she can also be an earthquake, hurricane, and tornado-throwing bitch.  As the source of life she also generally is responsible for the mechanisms of death and for keeping the Wheel of Life in motion.

I'd like to see a conception of the Goddess that is more balanced in this regard.  Just my $0.02.
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Re:Gender and Nature in Contemporary NeoPaganism
« Reply #2 on: 2003-04-06 16:19:58 »
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I would suggest that reading the Greek myths might be regarded by some as a prerequisite to this discussion. Just as an awareness (at least) of the history and content of the works criticized in the original, might have made it a little less overtly silly.

The three phases refered to above are recognizably the three aspects of fate, Lachesis (the young girl, portrayed with distaff or spindle, who creates the threads of life), Clotho (the mature woman, often portrayed with handloom, globe or scroll, who weaves the tapestry of life) and Atropos (the withered crone, holding shears, who cuts the threads of life). A much more sophisticated (and recent) idea than Gaea, mother to, and lover of, the Titans, the incestuous, neolithic, prototypical earth-mother, common to so many of mankinds' religions (including Judaism).

Of course, none of the above bear any relationship whatsoever, except as a tenuous and indiscriminate  borrowing, to modern "Wiccanism." As I understand this woolly hodge-podge, based on some research on an occassion when we were drenched with an uninvited stew of "Wiccan" works on the list, the whole barmy concept was derived from addled off-cuts and scraps of faded myth by the unimaginative Gerald Gardner (and perhaps some unacknowledged collaborators), during the miserable autumn of 1939.

In my experience, modern "paganism", most usually "Wicca" to its demented followers, is found largely among the ill-educated* and in those very few of them who escape that description, "Wicca" apparently appears only in those lacking in any sense but a desire to lead their fellow deluded. In any case, ill-educated or otherwise (but always shrill), "Wiccans" are indubitably as indiscriminating as their founder (whether due to the aforementioned poor education or to a more general new-ageish unwillingness to examine the "contradictions inherent in the system" - or even due to early onset senility, is left to the reader to determine). Content in a condition of happy plagiarism,  "oohing" and "ahing" at one another as they repetitively recycle ancient misbegotten ideas (due to poor memories, always new again), whilst lapping at one another's psychoactive trails in their endless circling of the unimaginable whilst dribbling the unmentionable**, for adequate reason,  Wiccans are not renowned for their piercing intelligence.

While this might be said, by some, to be sufficient to explain the severe neuroses that the vast majority of the specimen "Wiccans" traipsing through the CoV seem to be laboring under, I hold that it is more a case (with credits to Oscar) of the unspeakable in full pursuit of the incredible - and so swift their helter-pelter, that what little wit they may have started out with, tends to be left behind by the time they catch up - and embrace - their laughably lampoonable quarry. The only possibly  good thing about it is that I have never yet met a Wiccan who has recognized the loss. Perhaps they don't see it that way, or perhaps it really is, just something in the "water."

In any case, given the lamentably incomplete state of what Wiccans pass off for minds, is it a wonder that their "goddess" should not be different?

Hermit
* In whose ranks the scribbler of the above turgid and erroneous mess is, no doubt, to be found.
**Alluding of course to the ancient habit of recycling psychoactives by means of imbibing one another's micturations.
« Last Edit: 2003-04-06 16:52:10 by Hermit » Report to moderator   Logged

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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Re:Gender and Nature in Contemporary NeoPaganism
« Reply #3 on: 2003-04-06 20:33:10 »
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Quote from: Hermit on 2003-04-06 16:19:58   

I would suggest that reading the Greek myths might be regarded by some as a prerequisite to this discussion. Just as an awareness (at least) of the history and content of the works criticized in the original, might have made it a little less overtly silly.

The conception I quoted is considerably older than the Greek one, and is one many anthropologists believe was the ancestor of the Greeks.  It is the tripartite White Goddess described by Robert Graves and others.  In other respects the White Goddess is very similar to the Wiccan goddess, having her Consort, running the Wheel of Life, and so on.  She has hardly anything at all to do with later systems like the Greeks or (gah) Romans who named her parts and lined them up as small actors in a crowded pantheon.

snip

Quote:
As I understand this woolly hodge-podge, based on some research on an occassion when we were drenched with an uninvited stew of "Wiccan" works on the list, the whole barmy concept was derived from addled off-cuts and scraps of faded myth by the unimaginative Gerald Gardner (and perhaps some unacknowledged collaborators), during the miserable autumn of 1939.

Gardner (a person most Wiccans would probably like to forget ever existed, for good reason) was much more strongly influenced by the animistic early religions of Britain than by classical (e.g. Greek) myths.  However, the tripartite nature of the White Goddess had not been worked out at the time he ripped the idea off.

(unnecessary ad hominem rant snipped)

I had a business for a few years selling supplies to New Agers and found a mix of people among my customer base from people who can generously be lumped under your description through people who were very erudite on philosophical matters.  Broad generalizations about them would be generally untrue whatever they assert.
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Joe Dees
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Re:Gender and Nature in Contemporary NeoPaganism
« Reply #4 on: 2003-04-09 23:58:25 »
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Re:Gender and Nature in Contemporary NeoPaganism
« Reply #5 on: 2003-04-10 20:51:56 »
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Why not occupy yourself with something more suited to your mental level, rather than wasting our time with your attempted insult and incessant whining? Too stupid to find something appropriate? Here you go then - see the attachment (infra).

PS - re "voluminously quoted me in the past as a paragon of rationality and penetrating perception, etc."

Given the slew of plagiarised postings, demonstrated across the BBS by Joe Dees, I had not initially realized that this screed was scrawled by him. Now that he has owned it as his own, my opinion is further lowered.

When McPees quotes my opinion of him as having been significant, he should ask himself why it changed (and perhaps why he no longer considers it so). My reasons are quite adequately expounded all over the BBS, but for brevity, let me reiterate them. When McPees abandoned reason, rationality and perception, for bigotry, viturperation and jingoistic bombast, then the reasons for regarding him favorably evaporated. When he resorted to personal attacks, my friendship with him followed. When he presented poorly researched articles, blatantly intended to convey preconceived perspectives, irregardless of facts or consensus opinion, then he simply underlined why I no longer regard him as a credible source. When he undertook to spam the BBS at a rate of some 1,000 uncredited postings per month, apparently stolen from the most virulently biased sources he could find, so making those areas of the BBS unviable for their intended purpose, he proved that he no longer shared the aims of the CoV, and as such, is present under false pretences - and every further posting by him underscores his dishonesty.
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« Last Edit: 2003-04-10 21:16:01 by Hermit »
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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Re:Gender and Nature in Contemporary NeoPaganism
« Reply #6 on: 2003-04-11 00:45:09 »
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Quote from: localroger on 2003-04-06 20:33:10   

The conception I quoted is considerably older than the Greek one, and is one many anthropologists believe was the ancestor of the Greeks.  It is the tripartite White Goddess described by Robert Graves and others.  In other respects the White Goddess is very similar to the Wiccan goddess, having her Consort, running the Wheel of Life, and so on.  She has hardly anything at all to do with later systems like the Greeks or (gah) Romans who named her parts and lined them up as small actors in a crowded pantheon.

[Mermaid]Hermit is right. localroger, I am afraid you(or Graves, rather) confused The Fates(they are not Goddesses) with the White Goddess. Yes, the White Goddess(She came from Africa tens of thousands of years ago...and goddess worship is prevalent in hunter/gatherer and later agricultural societies..she did not rule their lives..she ruled the elements) is much older than The Fates....and I am afraid she was never spinning any wheel(1600.B.C was the height of Goddess worship)..at any point of time...that seems to be the full time job of Pagans or Wiccans.....and no, she has nothing to do with the Greek Goddesses...oops..oh..except maybe with Gaia..

I think the Wiccans have spoiled mythology for the rest of us. Thats my $0.02.
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Joe Dees
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Re:Gender and Nature in Contemporary NeoPaganism
« Reply #7 on: 2003-04-11 01:05:57 »
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