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Topic: virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist (Read 1664 times) |
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JD
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virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist
« on: 2006-01-13 07:03:22 » |
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Dear Fellows,
Yesterday I noticed an inbound link from Virus to my weblog and whilst
searching for what or who had referenced me, I found this tirade from IRC (
<http://tinyurl.com/9u3tc> http://tinyurl.com/9u3tc) logged on 4th Sep 2005:
22:24:30 Mermaid i am listening to limbic's audio blog
22:24:45 Mermaid
<http://www.limbicnutrition.com/blog/archives/029237.html>
http://www.limbicnutrition.com/blog/archives/029237.html
22:24:57 Mermaid i am APPALLED by his opinions
22:25:23 Mermaid he basically says...that people there are suffering
because they didnt help themselves
22:25:36 Mermaid never heard a blatant apologist for bush
22:25:53 Mermaid sounds very racist to me
22:26:00 Mermaid unapologetically racist
22:26:28 Mermaid i am sorry to use the word to describe a fellow
virian
22:26:32 Mermaid but that man is a racist
22:27:03 Mermaid people were LOCKED in a stadium
22:27:12 serenade with no food or water
22:27:27 serenade and military was turning away supplies
22:27:34 Mermaid and he says that they were too stupid or lazy and he
graciously adds that they were probably sick..to leave the city before the
disaster
22:27:35 Mermaid wtf?
22:27:44 Mermaid i am livid
22:28:00 serenade ridiculous
You can imagine my shock at being labelled an "unapologetic racist"! How
would you feel to read someone stating without equivocation or qualification
that you are a racist?
I can tell you that it is me who is APPALLED and LIVID at this baseless
libel.
Here is what Mermaid claims I said:
"...he says that they were too stupid or lazy and he graciously adds that
they were probably sick..to leave the city before the disaster"
Here is what I actually said:
"The people who were left behind [in New Orleans] were basically the
underclass. Too lazy or too stupid or too unwilling or simply unable, for
whatever reason - financial or medical - to leave New Orleans." (Found at
03:50 in the podcast)
Firstly my statement is true. Secondly it is outrageous to impute that I am
a racist.
I am particularly stung because I consider Mermaid a friend of sorts.
You can hear the 8 minute podcast yourselves at the link above. Have a
listen. This was a podcast expressing my sadness and concern for the people
of New Orleans.
I think as a Virian I deserved to be given the benefit of any doubt and
asked to clarify my views.
Kind regards
Jonathan (Limbic)
attached: index.html
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Cassidy McGurk
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Re: virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist
« Reply #1 on: 2006-01-13 10:04:58 » |
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On 13/01/06, Jonathan Davis <jonathan.davis@lineone.net> wrote:
>
> Dear Fellows,
>
> Yesterday I noticed an inbound link from Virus to my weblog and whilst
> searching for what or who had referenced me, I found this tirade from IRC=
(
> *http://tinyurl.com/9u3tc* <http://tinyurl.com/9u3tc>) logged on 4th Sep
> 2005:
>
> 22:24:30 Mermaid i am listening to limbic's audio blog
> 22:24:45 Mermaid
> http://www.limbicnutrition.com/blog/archives/029237.html
> 22:24:57 Mermaid i am APPALLED by his opinions
> 22:25:23 Mermaid he basically says...that people there are
> suffering because they didnt help themselves
> 22:25:36 Mermaid never heard a blatant apologist for bush
> 22:25:53 Mermaid *sounds very racist to me*
> 22:26:00 Mermaid *unapologetically racist*
> 22:26:28 Mermaid i am sorry to use the word to describe a fellow
> virian
> 22:26:32 Mermaid but *that man is a racist*
> 22:27:03 Mermaid people were LOCKED in a stadium
> 22:27:12 serenade with no food or water
> 22:27:27 serenade and military was turning away supplies
> 22:27:34 Mermaid and he says that they were too stupid or lazy and
> he graciously adds that they were probably sick..to leave the city before
> the disaster
> 22:27:35 Mermaid wtf?
> 22:27:44 Mermaid i am livid
> 22:28:00 serenade ridiculous
>
>
> You can imagine my shock at being labelled an "unapologetic racist"! How
> would you feel to read someone stating without equivocation or qualificat=
ion
> that you are a racist?
>
> I can tell you that it is me who is APPALLED and LIVID at this baseless
> libel.
>
> Here is what Mermaid claims I said:
>
> *"...he says that they were too stupid or lazy and he graciously adds tha=
t
> they were probably sick..to leave the city before the disaster"*
>
> Here is what I actually said:
>
> *"The people who were left behind [in New Orleans] were basically the
> underclass. Too lazy or too stupid or too unwilling or simply unable, for
> whatever reason - financial or medical - to leave New Orleans." (Found at
> 03:50 in the podcast)*
>
> Firstly my statement is true. Secondly it is outrageous to impute that I
> am a racist.
>
> I am particularly stung because I consider Mermaid a friend of sorts.
>
> You can hear the 8 minute podcast yourselves at the link above. Have a
> listen. This was a podcast expressing my *sadness and concern* for the
> people of New Orleans.
>
> I think as a Virian I deserved to be given the benefit of any doubt
> and asked to clarify my views.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Jonathan (Limbic)
>
I tend to think reading the Daily Telegraph is a racist act, don't look at
me.
attached: index.html
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Mermaid
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Re:virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist
« Reply #3 on: 2006-01-14 00:03:00 » |
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Quote from: Jonathan Davis on 2006-01-13 07:03:22
You can imagine my shock at being labelled an "unapologetic racist"! How
would you feel to read someone stating without equivocation or qualification
that you are a racist?
I can tell you that it is me who is APPALLED and LIVID at this baseless
libel. |
that is understandable.
Quote:
Firstly my statement is true. |
proof, please?
Quote:| Secondly it is outrageous to impute that I am a racist. |
that was my conclusion based on your words.
Quote:| I am particularly stung because I consider Mermaid a friend of sorts. |
sorry.
Quote:
I think as a Virian I deserved to be given the benefit of any doubt and
asked to clarify my views |
awaiting clarification.
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Mermaid
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Re:virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist
« Reply #4 on: 2006-01-14 00:04:32 » |
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Quote from: Walter Watts on 2006-01-13 22:35:48
i suppose you are not going to ask me why i feel you are racist too. but then again, does the opinion of a brown, barren and third world(your words, of course. not mine) citizen really matter?
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Walter Watts
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Re:virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist
« Reply #5 on: 2006-01-14 14:16:52 » |
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Quote:
Quote:
i suppose you are not going to ask me why i feel you are racist too. but then again, does the opinion of a brown, barren and third world(your words, of course. not mine) citizen really matter?
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I would be VERY upset if a brown, barren third-world citizen labeled me racist.
It would be as baseless as your labeling of Jonathan Davis as a racist.
However, I'm not upset when you do things like that, Mermaid.
That's just Mermaid being Mermaid.
TaTa,
Walter
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Walter Watts
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No one gets to see the Wizard! Not nobody! Not no how!
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Mermaid
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Re:virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist
« Reply #6 on: 2006-01-15 00:31:23 » |
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whatever, dude.
obviously, you are bored again.
Quote from: Walter Watts on 2006-01-14 14:16:52
Quote:
Quote:
i suppose you are not going to ask me why i feel you are racist too. but then again, does the opinion of a brown, barren and third world(your words, of course. not mine) citizen really matter?
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I would be VERY upset if a brown, barren third-world citizen labeled me racist.
It would be as baseless as your labeling of Jonathan Davis as a racist.
However, I'm not upset when you do things like that, Mermaid.
That's just Mermaid being Mermaid.
TaTa,
Walter
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Blunderov
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"We think in generalities, we live in details"
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RE: virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist
« Reply #7 on: 2006-01-16 18:04:44 » |
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[Blunderov] OK. I’m going to intervene here for a moment. Let me say
straight away that for all I know Mermaid and Limbic have settled their
differences in private. I hope so.
Perhaps I am unwise, but the matter has been posted on the list and
furthermore Limbic has made an oblique reference to the matter on his blog.
So I feel justified in making some observations.
<quote Limbic>
“Here is what I actually said:
"The people who were left behind [in New Orleans] were basically the
underclass. Too lazy or too stupid or too unwilling or simply unable, for
whatever reason - financial or medical - to leave New Orleans." (Found at
03:50 in the podcast)
Firstly my statement is true. Secondly it is outrageous to impute that I am
a racist.” <quote Limbic>
[Bl.] I’m afraid my conclusion is that this remark could quite easily be
construed as a racist remark. The difficulty is the implication that only
the underclass had elements stupid enough or lazy enough to remain behind in
the face of such an obvious threat. That the middle and uberclass, stupid
and lazy though some of their number may have been, of these, none were
quite THAT stupid or lazy. And the sad fact of the matter is that the
underclass in question black.
I’m certain that this is not what Limbic intended to say. I think it just
came out wrong.
I would add that it is not always obvious just what ‘race’ actually means.
Or whether the concept is of any use at all. Certainly the matter requires a
deal of caution.
Limbic, perhaps lacking a little such caution, wrote in a recent post on his
blog (in reference to a most shocking murder in his neighbourhood);
”Treat everyone equally. Neither victim nor perpetrator should have greater
value before the law simply because of their ethnicity. And do it now before
the books are balanced and the white majority discovers the truth about
racial violence on the UK. The current senseless and gratuitous obscuring of
the truth cannot be sustained.”
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JD
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RE: virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist
« Reply #8 on: 2006-01-17 06:11:37 » |
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-virus@lucifer.com
> [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of Blunderov
> Sent: 17 January 2006 00:05
> To: virus@lucifer.com
> Subject: RE: virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow
> Virian is a racist
>
> If I understand Limbic aright, the substance of his complaint
> is that this does not happen when it is the other way around.
Hi B,
Good points.
Regarding New Orleans, I think my worlds were clear: Some people were too
stupid or lazy to move. Some people could not move. Most of those that were
left behind for whatever reason were members of the underclass. In New
Orleans, the underclass is predominately black.
You are saying in effect that I am saying:
Underclass = Stupid & Lazy
Underclass = Black
Therefore: Black = Stupid & Lazy
Can you see the obvious flaw in this reasoning or do I have to stoop to the
absurdity of point out the logical flaws in a position I have never had!?
Reminds me of Eddie Murphy (Kit) in Bowfinger:
Kit's Agent : This is a great script! Look, it's not Shakespeare, but it...
Kit (a black actor): Hey, what did you just say?
Agent: I said, 'it's not Shakespeare'...
Kit : 'It's not Shake... ', 'It's not Shake... ' (to Freddy) Do you hear
what he's doing?
Freddy : I know he's doing something, I just can't put my finger on it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... What's he doing?
Kit : Shakespeare, Freddy, Shakespeare!
Freddy : Shakespeare?
Kit : Shake a spear! Spearchucker! I'm a spearchucker now!
[Hear the MP3:
http://www.moviewavs.com/cgi-bin/mp3s.cgi?Bowfinger=bowfinger23.mp3[/url]
Or
Kit: Look at this. Just for fun I scanned in the computer the script just to
see how many times the letter K appears in this script.
The letter K appears in this script 1,456 times. That's perfectly divisible
by 3.
Afrim: So what you sayin'.
Kit: What am I sayin'?! KKK appears in this script 486 times!
[Hear the MP3:
[url]http://www.moviewavs.com/cgi-bin/mp3s.cgi?Bowfinger=bowfinger28.mp3 ]
If you want to find racism and bigotry, you will.
-------------
On the second point about race crimes in my position is very simple:
Get rid of the whole concept.
As it is we have the absurd situation of trying to read peoples minds to
detect "racial motives" coupled with inequality before the law.
The whole idea was dreamed up by the race relations lobby ostensibly to try
and fight racism by making penalties for racism related crimes worse.
Here is the problem:
In the public debate, the official position is that racism is a problem
predominately with the white community and that minorities are the chief
victim group.
The problem is that the reverse is true. Over the last 30 years racism
amongst whites has diminished almost to the point of eradication (in my
opinion it is sustained only by the very unfairness I am addressing here,
minority crime and hard coded in-group preference).
When we examine racial violence in Britain, we see that whites are massively
over represented as victims and minorities massively over represented as
attackers.
There is a gross double standard applied by both the police and media to
cases of interracial violence. Where there is a minority victim, the default
explanation in the absence of any other know motive is "racist". With
whites, even where there is evidence of racist motive, it is suppressed.
I list dozens of examples in that post and others it links to.
If we are going to keep the whole silly notion of "Race attack" or "racial
motive", then apply it fairly to all victims.
Even better, get rid of it entirely.
Kind regards
Jonathan
---
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Mermaid
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Re:virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist
« Reply #9 on: 2006-01-17 08:50:01 » |
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Quote from: Jonathan Davis on 2006-01-17 06:11:37
On the second point about race crimes in my position is very simple:
Get rid of the whole concept.
As it is we have the absurd situation of trying to read peoples minds to
detect "racial motives" coupled with inequality before the law.
The whole idea was dreamed up by the race relations lobby ostensibly to try
and fight racism by making penalties for racism related crimes worse.
Here is the problem:
In the public debate, the official position is that racism is a problem
predominately with the white community and that minorities are the chief
victim group.
The problem is that the reverse is true. Over the last 30 years racism
amongst whites has diminished almost to the point of eradication (in my
opinion it is sustained only by the very unfairness I am addressing here,
minority crime and hard coded in-group preference).
When we examine racial violence in Britain, we see that whites are massively
over represented as victims and minorities massively over represented as
attackers.
There is a gross double standard applied by both the police and media to
cases of interracial violence. Where there is a minority victim, the default
explanation in the absence of any other know motive is "racist". With
whites, even where there is evidence of racist motive, it is suppressed.
I list dozens of examples in that post and others it links to.
If we are going to keep the whole silly notion of "Race attack" or "racial
motive", then apply it fairly to all victims.
Even better, get rid of it entirely.
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if you believed all that you said above, we'd be seeing more 'reporting' on all sorts of crime. you are specific about the criminal activity that appears in your blog. it seems to be orchestrated mostly by blacks/arabs/moslems.
further, a person who follows the sentiments you have penned wouldnt take the pains to highlight 'black crime'/'arab terrorism'/'moslem fundamentalism'/'immigrant ----' to throw light on ethnicity/culture/skin colour/nationality/religious preference. they wouldnt be "xyz" crime. when you begin to qualify people by the colour of their skin unfavourably, then it is racist. in my eyes.
your world must be a strange and scary one indeed. you must be terrified surrounded by such darkness.
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Mermaid
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Re:virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist
« Reply #10 on: 2006-01-17 09:19:32 » |
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good fucking grief. i just read all of your 'thoughts' in that blog entry. you may be a racist. or not. you are most definitely a loony.
so..let us put it in a nutshell. you think robbery-murders are really 'calculated murders' by black people and are racially motivated against white people? lets not even go into the conspiracy theory that follows.
i have more to share, but i need to take off some moments to cringe.
the topic of this thread is all wrong. there is nothing 'unfair' about calling you a racist. you are supplying more than ample evidence for such a conclusion. and you certainly are not a virian imo if a virian can be defined as one who aims to attain the virian virtues and shuns the virian sins.
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JD
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Re:virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist
« Reply #11 on: 2006-01-17 12:02:41 » |
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Quote from: Mermaid on 2006-01-17 09:19:32
good fucking grief. i just read all of your 'thoughts' in that blog entry. you may be a racist. or not. you are most definitely a loony.
so..let us put it in a nutshell. you think robbery-murders are really 'calculated murders' by black people and are racially motivated against white people? lets not even go into the conspiracy theory that follows. |
I am publicly inviting you to support this nonsense. How about a quote?
Come on Mermaid - the post is there for all to read.
If you do not (or cannot) then accept you are a defame and liar or a dolt.
Jonathan
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JD
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Re:virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist
« Reply #12 on: 2006-01-17 12:11:27 » |
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Quote from: Mermaid on 2006-01-17 08:50:01 if you believed all that you said above, we'd be seeing more 'reporting' on all sorts of crime. you are specific about the criminal activity that appears in your blog. it seems to be orchestrated mostly by blacks/arabs/moslems.
further, a person who follows the sentiments you have penned wouldnt take the pains to highlight 'black crime'/'arab terrorism'/'moslem fundamentalism'/'immigrant ----' to throw light on ethnicity/culture/skin colour/nationality/religious preference. they wouldnt be "xyz" crime. when you begin to qualify people by the colour of their skin unfavourably, then it is racist. in my eyes.
your world must be a strange and scary one indeed. you must be terrified surrounded by such darkness.
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More bunk. Give examples. Let people judge for themselves.
Our fellow Virians must be wondering, as am I:
Why do you read my "racist" blog every day Mermaid?
Jonathan
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist
« Reply #13 on: 2006-01-17 14:50:46 » |
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[Blunderov] It was not my intention to ask you to defend a position which
you do not hold. But I feel compelled to clarify the logic involved here.
It was not my position that you might have implied:
"Underclass = Stupid & Lazy
Underclass = Black
Therefore: Black = Stupid & Lazy".
Clearly there are, or could be, black people who are neither members of the
underclass nor stupid or lazy.
It was my position that you may have implied:
The underclass is black.
Only the underclass remained.
Of those who remained, some were too stupid or lazy too leave.
Therefore: the only ones too stupid or lazy to leave were black.
I continue to maintain that your original statement was sufficiently
ambiguous as to reasonably allow this interpretation.
I think probably you are the victim of your own punctuation. And possibly
relevant too, is that various communications media are involved. A podcast.
An IRS chat at which the podcast was discussed. A log of the chat. A blog. A
mailing list. An RSS feed. It's a McLuhanesque nightmare!
But that aside. On this we are more in agreement:
"Even better, get rid of it entirely."
Yes. IMO characterising such attacks as "racially motivated" usually tells
us nothing useful at all about the incident, and indeed (usually) raises
more questions than it answers, if any.
Usually but not always. "Four black men burst into the Greymont liquor store
today and robbed it" is a gratuitously racist statement. "Blacks at the
meeting chanted 'one settler, one bullet' is not. Most unfortunately the
press seems to have persistent difficulty in drawing this distinction. So
perhaps it is better to get "rid of it entirely" as you say.
Best regards.
PS Loved "Bowfinger" btw. I'm an Eddie Murphy fan. Did you see "Holy Man"?
Not quite as good as Bowfinger but very funny too.
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Re:virus: Deeply unfair accusation that fellow Virian is a racist
« Reply #14 on: 2006-01-18 00:57:50 » |
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my two line precise version sums up the several paragraphs of paranoid rant in your blog entry.
why do i read your blog?
umm..err....oh gee..well..BECAUSE I CAN!
i read your (occasionally) racist blog for the very same reason you choose to put it up the internet. you do know where to harvest good links tho' on a variety of other subjects tho'...
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