In a message dated 3/14/2003 3:13:07 PM Central Standard Time, michelle@barrymenasherealtors.com writes:

Jake wrote:

> 1) A proven set of developmental genes.  ...  By any reasonable accounting
standard, a proven
> package should prevail.

[michelle]This would only really apply if we waited till at least 60 or 70 to clone -
otherwise we run the risk of the same problem that haunts sexual
reproduction, the late-expressing genetic maladaption.

[Jake2] a lot of those kinds of problems can be caught by my 2) below.  The medical history of the clone parent continues on even after the clone child is born.

> 2) A medical history.

[michelle]This is a very good point, especially if the parent waits till late in life,
when lifestyle consequences have fully manifested.

> 3) Memetic exploration.  Perhaps the real meaning of cloning will
> paradoxically manifest not in the worship of genes, but in the realization
of
> how freely we can choose a path once we each have complete self-knowledge
of
> our own genetic packages.  At this point we will even begin to exercise
> control over our memetic environment as well.  Our ability to parse
genetic
> meanings will make memes appear all the clearer to us then.  At this
point,
> the individual has completely emerged with all the necessary knowledge and
> capacity to partake of the transhuman voyage.

[michelle] This seems a little farfetched

[Jake2] I prefer the word "visionary myself" http://virus.lucifer.com/virtues.html

[michelle] - one would have to educate the clone in a
much more rigorous manner than children are currently educated.  Maybe kind
of like some eastern cultures value education, cramming it in as fast and as
fully as it will go.  It seems far more likely that there will have to be at
least 3 or 4 successive generations of clones in society before we start to
notice the metaphors.  Or before the clones themselves start caring - they
will be normal people, after all, with the same rebellious nature and
issue-laden struggling life that we all deal with... deep contemplation
about the nature of their place in society and what they mean to science
will probably not be a priority, especially because it might be expected and
pushed on them!  I see them breaking the chains and riding off into the
sunset, defiantly refusing to read books or behave, easy riders one and all!

[Jake] Perhaps a few at first.  But once a few get their bearings it won't take long for the others to find useful examples within the template of another clone's experience.  Also to some extent, one might try a different parenting setup, whereby parental authority is vested in some person(s) not the clone parent.  This would perhaps work best and recognize the different nature of the clone parent/child relationship from the "traditional" biological parent/child relationship.  The clone parent would play the supportive role of a "responsible adult" in the child's life (much like a teacher or some other important non-parent), but would not hold ultimate responsibility for life choices for the clone child.

[michelle]
Great topic, Jake!
:)
Michelle

[Jake] Thanks,

Love,

-Jake