From: L' Ermit (lhermit@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed Feb 27 2002 - 17:11:25 MST
[Hermit] Let us not forget that this all started with my saying, "[Hermit]
Traditionally milk would have been chilled (while breeding bacteria) and
separated before being used. And if not pasteurized and homogenized milk
sours in a day (or why ghee is popular in a certain warm country lacking in
refrigeration facilities and having a vast excess of cows) - which would
greatly increase consumption, and lead to more cows being required."
[url=http://forum.javien.com/XMLmessage.php?id=id::ulxNjGkt-cowR-FDwO-FS7e-jiwunM2DIgiL]"virus:
Lets not beat around the meat.", Hermit, Mon 2002-02-25 22:44[/url], and ask
you to explain how your on going spewing has refuted this?
[Mermaid burbled] I simply HAD to look for that DeccanHerald article on
'copper ghee'. I found a cached version of your DeccanHerald article.
[Hermit] Excellent. Now do a search for "rancid ghee" on Google. Notice all
the [i]Indian[/i] recipes for rancid ghee. See how many of them are
historical. See how many of them there are on the first page. Which gives
the lie to your assertion that you did a "random search" on "ghee and
rancidity." You had to look rather hard for the citations you made. Now read
the appended item. Hopefully it is short enough even for your attention
span. Once you push your eyes back into their orbs, please write a pretty
retraction and stop spewing nonsense.
[Mermaid] I am not surprised that it is entirely irrelevant to the topic of
discussion.
[Hermit] Raises his eyebrows. [quote]...Ghee also goes rancid...[/quote].
Wasn't that the point of this argument, doll? It seems that your definition
of "irrelevant" is as unique as your spelling and idea of what constitutes a
dialog - at least when India and Indian beliefs are involved.
[Mermaid] The article is a op-ed about a consumer report about 15 brands of
ghee. Did you believe that all that is 'ghee' is encompassed within these 15
brands?
[Hermit] No, doll. The invalid insertion of "all" into the statements of
others (I have noticed you doing it at least three times in the past few
days) is apparently a characteristic of yours. A bad habit and one you
should attempt to wean yourself out of. It makes you look foolish.
[Mermaid] Lets not forget that the article is dated 1999. God!! You are an
embarrassment!!
[Hermit] And how has ghee changed since then? Or is it a question of that
ghee not being the same as that of your grandmother? Granted that you didn't
previously know that Indian milk contains a surfeit of PCBs, DDT and metals,
there I was thinking that it was a recipe that had been around for thousands
of years. [b]Hint to Virians, while not quite as reliable a bullshit
indicator as invalid capitalization, the interjection of spurious
exclamation points is usually a "klue" to wise that the assertion so bounded
is deserving of additional inspection.[/b]
[Mermaid] I did explain the process from milk-ghee didnt I?
[Hermit] Doll, you did. I noticed it because I find your habit of attempting
to engage in the teaching of your maternal ancestress to extract the
embryonic juices of the domesticated fowl by suction - usually badly - but
in an oh so patronizing tone - ever so slightly annoying. But not so badly
annoying that I would have mentioned it had you not done so.
[Mermaid] At which point did you imagine that bottled ghee consumer reports
are pertinent to the discussion at hand??
[Hermit] Yes Doll. They are.
<big fat snip of assorted carefully selected citations and unnecessary
repost of a full article>
[url=http://www.cgiar.org/ilri/dbtw-wpd/fulldocs/smhdairy/18gbk-04.htm#P50_16044]"Traditional
milk conservation and processing practices in the Indian subcontinent",
International Livestock Research Institute (ILRI),22 February 2002[/url]
[Hermit: Note order reversed, my emphasis]
[quote]
Ghee, the butter-fat prepared chiefly from cow or buffalo milk, is the most
common milk product in the Indian sub-continent. It is used as a cooking or
frying medium, and is also consumed directly (with rice or chhapatis) apart
from being used in confectionery and in traditional medicines.
Traditionally, the household ferments whole milk into dahi and churns out
makkhan (butter) [Hermit: infra]. Fresh or accumulated over days, makkhan is
clarified at 105-145_C in a suitable open mud pot or metallic vessel,
stirred continuously on a low fire to drive out all the moisture. The vessel
is then removed from the fire and, on cooling, the residue settles down, and
the clear fat is decanted into a suitable container. [b][i]Ghee has somewhat
longer keeping quality than makkhan[/i][/b] and can be transported over long
distances. Modern dairy plants manufacture ghee on a large scale. [b]The
development of an oxidised flavour or tallowiness in ghee is accelerated at
higher storage temperatures. At household level, its storage temperature may
vary from 5-38_C (usually recommended at 21_C) though refrigeration delays
acid development and prolongs the keeping quality by rendering the product
greasy and pasty.[/b]... [b]Because it is susceptible to deterioration due
to exposure to light, air and metals[/b], tin-coated (non-toxic and
non-tainting) containers are used for packaging. Food-grade plastic
containers and polyethylene pouches are also used.
...
Makkhan or butter normally obtained by churning whole milk dahi (curd) with
crude indigenous devices, is essentially an input to the ghee (clarified
butter) making process at household level though people also apply it
directly on chhapatis (leavened bread). ... Parchment papers are used in
packaging, for refrigeration and storage. [b][i]Keeping quality is low under
existing rural conditions but improved methods of production can enhance the
keeping quality.[/b][/i]
Fermented products
Indian households [/b]partially extend the life of milk from 12 to 24
hours[/b] by simple heat treatment which destroys most microflora.
Temperatures of 20-40_C in the warm parts of the year are most favourable
for the growth of micro-organisms which bring about spoilage of milk within
a few hours of milking. So the simplest way of preserving milk for human
consumption in a tropical country is to allow it to sour which checks
putrefactive changes while giving the milk an acid taste which is
particularly refreshing in a hot climate. A variety of fermented milk
products are made and consumed in the Indian sub-continent.
[/quote]
[Hermit] As this matches my experience, both when experimenting with
historical practices for a "Living Museum" and when applying what I had
learnt to living in areas of Africa without power, and whereas you had to go
back to your mother to find out about it, despite having previously claimed
"...Considering I used to make my own cream, ghee
<Indian clarified butter>, buttermilk and curds from our cows milk, I know
for a fact...,"
[url=http://forum.javien.com/XMLmessage.php?id=id::hTkFG87X-MtGE-X6dY-EtcO-LgbiKbQpfMeR]"virus:
to hermit: Lets not beat around the meat.", Mermaid, Mon Feb 25, 2002 03:25
pm[/url] you will understand why I find the articles from reputable
organizations which confirm my experience vastly more persuasive than your
second-hand and third-hand anecdotes.
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