From: L' Ermit (lhermit@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Jan 27 2002 - 23:04:45 MST
Dear Joe,
To my thinking you appear very well "programmed" with a very US-centric
perspective. I would suggest that other people from different cultures see
things very differently. I know I do. Let me try to illustrate why.
<snip>
[Joe Dees] Poverty is a poor explanation, considering that significant
percentages of much poorer people in Africa, Central America and Southeast
Asia are not generally exhibiting these savage proclivities (with the
exception of the areas in SE Asia where Islam has spread).
[Hermit] Warfare is so endemic in Africa that it is hardly newsworthy. In
addition, in most of Africa, the environment is so unhealthy that CNN
reporters don't much like to visit there. So the US does not see
minute-by-minute reports on the horrors of Africa. That does not mean that
they do not happen and are not "real." I suggest that you will shortly see a
great deal of media attention placed on Zimbabwe - if any TV crews dare to
risk their lives visiting... But the Congo, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Rwanda and
Burundi all have their place on the mass murder lists - and most of the
deaths were caused by "Christians"... Refer
[url=http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat2.htm][/url]. And the killing
continues.
[Joe Dees] In the case of Pol Pot, he was under the sway of another utopic
meme, agrarian communism, and was killing all opposition in his own country
to reify his dream, not attacking unbelievers across sovereign borders.
[Hermit] An horrific meme and result. Agreed.
[url=http://www.freedomsnest.com/rummel_vietnam.html][/url]Yet it has been
suggested that the US played more than a small role in committing murders in
that part of the world - with her own political agendas.
[Joe Dees] Similar communist memes have infested the Stalinist USSR and
Maoist China, and a different, more acquisitive, racially based totalitarian
meme (Nazism) infected the Third Reich (a milder little brother, fascism,
infected Italy).
[Hermit] And the US did not suffer similar problems (but far fewer victims
of democide)?
[Joe Dees] Japan was infected by the belief in the deity of their temporal
leader, and a sense of their racial superiority on the basis of their
association with him (since he was also japanese) combined with a sense of
manifest destiny encompassing the Pacific theatre.
[Hermit] While this appears to be a faithful regurgitation of American
wartime propaganda, we should question how accurate a "history" one can
build from the propaganda of only one side in a conflict...
[Joe Dees] Most of the people who were killed by Christians in the name of
their religion were killed during the Middle Ages (Inquisition and Crusades
and Hundred Years' War and missionary colonialism, etc.), after which
Christianity has been gradually and progressively defanged by the
moderating and domesticating influence of the Enlightenment and
scientific/technological advance.
[Hermit] While I agree that these are some of the reasons why Christianity
is no longer powerful, another very important factor is the Industrial Age
and consequent increase of both the value and political significance of
labor. As it is, one of the greatest "colonial massacres" perpetuated by
"Christians" upon "heathens" was the execution between 1886 and 1908 of some
3 million Congolese. Not so terribly long ago...
[Joe Dees] However, Islam has never completely come to terms with modernity;
a significant chunk of its adherents still embrace a medievalistic mindset
concerning their purported divine license to kill or convert all infidel
unbelievers.
[Hermit] Is this not true of Christians too? Your error, to my mind, is to
persist in assigning to [b]all[/b] Muslims the characteristics of
[b]some[/b] small but visible minority of Muslims. Imagine if we did this
for "Christians" - or Americans - or Israelis? Does this mean that we should
take the most primitive and economically non-viable trailer-park dwellers
from some deep-southern Baptipentafundicostamentalist (tm) community and
assert that they represent Americans in general?
[Hermit] Refer also [url=http://www.msnbc.com/news/694382.asp]Arab economies
stir unrest accessed 2002-01-26[/url] which strongly supports athenonrex's
assertion. [quote]The lack of democracy, he warned, means that disaffected
Egyptians have no outlet other than religion for their grievances. And as
businesses recognize the implications for the country’s long-term stability,
that in turn will weaken their willingness to invest. “I’m against the
fundamentalists myself, and my brother’s ideology,” Saber said. “But it’s
the government that is creating the conditions for the mosques to attract
these individuals.”[/quote]
<snap>
Regards
Hermit
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