From: L' Ermit (lhermit@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Jan 18 2002 - 11:15:43 MST
[Hermit] Perhaps I should remind you of your "arguments" during this
thread...
[Balance of post is Mermaid]
*I* have to bear the stigma of 'genetic and cultural' defecieny of Indian
origins and all because I believe in accepting knowledge with an open mind??
<Can *this* be racism?>
I think you are beginning to take yourself a *little* too seriously. I will
take note of whatever you have to say after you recover from the afereffects
of the overdose of your own self. I am going to slip away for a bit until
this sorry excuse for a 'rational' discussion/debate dies the death it
deserves. Have a merry fucking life.
BUT one has to stand for one believes and for one's absolute
convictions absolutely. And I believe with absolute conviction and
absolutely that Hermit is way out of line here. His stubborness and ego has
bought him down to the level of a fraud. This argument over vedic
mathematics was only the last straw on the camel's back.
Hermit KNOWS the solid roots of Mathematics in India. Hermit knows
that gravity and heliocentrism and astronomical truths occur in ancient
Indian works. But here in the CoV, this has descended to a petty fistfight
and a shitfest purely because of the exceptional and rather stinky usage of
the English language by one very egotistic man. He deliberately distorted
information. He deliberately mushed three different issues of Pi mnemonic,
Sulba Sutras and Vedic Mathematics. In addition, he sprinkled it with
innuendos of religion and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. These are fraudulent
tactics....
The fact that more than half of those who have chosen to participate in this
thread believe that vedic mathematics is all about eastern mysticism or
religion or that Ancient Indian Mathematics and its significant
contributions to the world amounts to 'horseshit' proves my point. Smearing
my name or my intentions or calling me names most definitely indicates that
there is a need to divert and resort to such tactics in order to supress the
real need to discuss a topic. It indicates a lack of supporting materials
and hence weakness. A weakness that comes through clearly in the anger
tinged words...an anger that is not righteous...but an anger that resulted
from offense to questioning one's authority.
This is a subject where much is hidden in the mists of time. But whatever it
is, even here experimentation should prove that everytime the 16 rules of
calculation in vedic mathematics is applied on any number and on any number
with any number of digits...it should always
work. What fascinated me is the fact that it is supposed to work on any two
numbers upto any number of digits. THAT is scientific method. But the man
only read a 'bit' and what authority does he have to discard the book and
its methods as 'horseshit'. Nada. Zilch. And I am a PsychoBitch for asking
that? Then there was the whole slew of nonsense with the Hebrew Code
comparison. This has absolutely no relevence or meaning. Unfortunately,
there has been so much skillful injection of confusion with the introduction
of several or at least three seperate topics that one cannot clear this mess
without a clear, clean head to sort out one issue after another...And then
the authenticity of the book re authorship. This, I agree, is highly
debatable but again there is no means to prove it either way. Even your
Handy Encyclopedia Hermit cannot travel back in time and find out if the
author fabricated it or if the Vedas assisted in mathematical calculations.
This is beyond your 'scientific method' and to use such an obscure and
personally held belief to discredit what looks like a workable manner of
calculation without even reading the book fully smacks of fradulent intent.
Those sold out on this Hermit bias will never explore Vedic Mathematics and
who knows if it will help or hinder them in a possible event of their
reading the book. Beliefs should arise out of one's personal conviction and
not out of laziness.
These are not 'dubious' or obscure claims made by Yash.
Oh no, Yash. He did read a 'bit' and it was sufficient. You just
have to take his word for it..:)
I have never heard of Vedic Mathematics before this thread began. I
do not have any claim. I ventured out to find any sources I could find and I
published them ALL in my replies to back up my opinion why its mnemonic and
not some sort of mystical mumbo jumbo. When I say why I believe its
Mneumonic, Hermit or anyone else who is questiong my decision KNOWS how I
came to that decision.
Hermit, on the other hand, has read 'a bit' of the 'sylabbus' of
MUM. We dont know which part, what pages, what content etc. We dont know WHY
he believes its on the same line as the Bible Code or the Moby Dick Code. I
do not purchase second hand knowledge and conclusions.
As far as Kirk is concerned, he has obviously fallen hook, line and
sinker to Hermit's dishonest debating tactics directed at Yash and more
recently at me. As far as I read it, Hermit only really meant that the Vedic
Code lets the person believe what he wants to believe like the Bible Code.
But he mentions it only once. In the subsequent discussions, he combines the
book with religion to give the impression that it is a pseudo religious
scientific piece of garbage. In a group which is predominantly atheistic and
anti-belief, defining something on religious line will instantly attract
negative reviews. But with his rather skilful manipulation of words he has
gotten Kirk to believe that this is a steganography issue. I do not know if
its Kirk's deficiency or if its Hermit's malice.
I have to step back at this point of time and ask myself why and
what am I doing by continuing to give validation to his words. And I have
nothing more to say.
Idiot. I will not dignify anymore of your posts with any kind of a response.
Hermit, you are being an ass. Or a cultural elitist ...whichever you prefer.
Learn to be gracious. Read up before you spew. I, for one, would hate to see
you lose credibility. Major part of your post does not dignify a response.
Baiting?..
Translated...you have NOT read the book. You read something that
the Maharishi School printed, right? LOL....Are you not a fraud,
Hermit?...:)
The answer to my question was NO. You did not read the book by
Tirthaji or the 16 Sanskrit sutras which are the original sources. I have
never completed War and Peace. I cannot go around writing commentaries about
the book, can I?
AND...whatever the book you read..you did not read it fully. If you
have the read the book, how did you imagine AND communicate to us about
Vedic Mathematics that " - indeed it relies on exactly the same kind of
"translation" and "discovery" as that which is found in the babble codes,
i.e. those looking for something tend to find whatever they
seek."<http://forum.javien.com/XMLmessage.php?id=id::DnZfQTUi-PHs7-FAxR-HHkK-PEADGDljWCgp>
Elaborate, compare and prove?
What possible evil mischief planned by religious men did you see in
a book that serves mnemonic codes to assist people to calculate numbers?
Maybe if you have read it fully, you might have considered the
possibility that the book only strived to produce memory aids to calculate
large numbers orally. Everything that I have read so far about the book
points to that and there is absolutely nothing religious in its content.
But I am afraid that there is nothing you can do to prove that priests are
incapable of writing books about credible sciences or correct mathematics.
Its your word against mine about my intentions. *I* havent come to
any conclusions without studying the subject.
Nevertheless, the 16 rules of Thirthaji has not been proved wrong.
It is not a 'code' as you claim. Not that you have any qualification to do
that, considering you neither know Sanskrit nor have you read the work nor
have you conducted a scientific study to prove that the rules do not work.
Most importantly, you have been attempting to include the 'religious' and
'faith' and 'belief' angles...key words that would repel the audience here
so that they would take a position against anything that is associated with
the word, 'vedic'..like Kirk did...let us not forget that you are yet to
prove to anyone that this has anything..whatsoever... to do with religion
or belief or prophecies of any kind...
Kirk, contrary to what Hermit has been trying to spread, and in the most
foul manner too, I am not promoting Vedic Mathematics. Nor am I
'anti-occidental'. Maybe some here are anti-oriental, but that is another
story. However, I will attempt to understand the concept and I am willing to
accept it or discard it depending on the merits of the system...not on the
author's religious beliefs or country of origin...
The Vedas are ancient holy texts from India than can be legitimately
characterized as the all-encompassing repository of (Hindu) knowledge from
eons past. The term Vedic Mathematics refers to a set of sixteen
mathematical formulae or sutras and their corollaries derived from the
Vedas. The sixteen sutras are:
You are so far beyond BULLSHIT, that it is futile to carry on a
discussion with you. Because I cannot fathom why you would stubbornly stick
to belittling everything that occured 25 years before and inaccurately
associating everything you stumble upon to the Maharishi, I have to come to
the conclusion that it is something over and above my ability to drill a
hole in your head and dump some real knowledge.
Hermit, you are being an ass. Or a cultural elitist ...whichever you
prefer. Learn to be gracious. Read up before you spew. I, for one, would
hate to see you lose credibility. Major part of your post does not dignify a
response. Baiting?..:) I see that you have seized this as an opportunity to
lash out at anything that is not attractive or familiar to you. I dont blame
you. You have been living amidst the influences of the Maharishi for far too
long, but pause a bit so you can seperate the chaff from the wheat. Like you
told us once...you must be living in Fairfield for your sins...;-)
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